NGD: SJM-ish Liquid

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BatUtilityBelt
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You know those guitars that arrive much nicer than described? This isn't one of those. This guitar has put up with some idiots and it needs therapy.
NGD.jpg
Call me strange, but I like 2 P90s instead of 3, and I do like a Jazzmaster/Jaguar style trem despite their quirks. And I like Liquids just because they're fun shaped offsets with great necks. So finally seeing an SJM type (thanks @tobijohn ) reasonably priced not too much beyond inflation-adjusted expectations, I shot a low offer, and it was accepted. It had been listed for 5 months, so I thought that was why there was no counter offer, just accepted what I thought was a pretty low number. The listing did show some dings and scrapes, so I knew it needed some work. For those issues mentioned, I thought it was an up-front seller, it was not.

Brown truck brought it here last night and it was warm enough to unpack right away. First thing - no trem arm, and the store didn't mention that in their listing. No, it's not expensive, but finding a good fitting one is a different issue. Luckily, I had a wrong-handed trem arm that does fit it, so that would suffice for a while (pictured above).

Looking it over, I see the worst stand rash I've ever seen. And I don't think this is a laquer finish, so I have to just assume the store's stand that held this guitar for at least 5 months was coated in something pretty toxic (black, and well infused on both sides of the headstock). Bad store. While I'm looking in that area, it gets worse.
Nutjob.jpg
I could tell from the listing pictures the nut was flipped righty and cut badly, but it's worse than that. Whoever did that obviously gouged the nut slot badly, because one end has a gaping hole, and the other end looks like it was filled with super glue and baking soda. For reference guys, if we abuse the fret board that badly, wood putty is a better choice whether store bought or home recipe. Sigh, moving on.

I start tuning it and noticed a few more things. The high E tuner has been replaced with something cartoonishly bigger than the others. Worse, the tuners are installed without any regard to straight lines. They are cockeyed enough to get in each others' way. Worse yet, the G tuner is pretty badly bound up and can barely be manipulated to work. Ok, so that's on the menu for later, it did tune up.

I plugged in to behold a loud grounding buzz that can't be quieted pressing the strings or bridge. I was done being surprised, or so I thought. I wasn't going to open it up last night to trace that, I just decided to further check out the guitar. I next discovered the trem doesn't operate at all. It's as if it is glued in position or locked. But the lock doesn't even engage, so something else was going on. I noticed someone replaced the roller bridge that would have come with the guitar with a TOM. Obviously they knew the trem was not working. Add that to the list.

The action was close enough to check out the neck, and I only found one bad spot. Only the 19th fret, and only on the G string, it was high. Finding that minimal an issue on the neck was a very good surprise. There's a lot of fret sprout, but that's something I kind of expect on inexpensive finds. So the filthy, abused, but well behaving neck tells me the rest is worth fixing.

With the ground noise and the trem not working, I decided I couldn't go any further just evaluating, I had to see what those problems were about. No spring adjustment on the trem made any difference, so I took it off for an inspection. Inside the cavity, its grounding wire was just hanging around attached to nothing, so I quickly determined that was the ground noise issue. But the trem itself didn't appear to have any problem. I put it back on, and it was working until I tensioned up the strings, then the trem was bound up. Frustrating.

I have a wrong-handed CV Jaguar trem in a parts bin, so I grabbed it for swapping in, because I knew it worked fine. It worked, until I tensioned the strings to tune, then it was bound up too. Ok, so this is obviously a problem with the trem cavity, not the hardware. I spent the next few hours measuring and what-iffing, and reducing screw holes, and modifying the cavity route. Bottom line, the screw holes were no longer as tight as they should be to keep the trem where it belongs, and string pressure made the big plate jam into the front of the cavity, binding it under tension. It went late, but I got the trem working last night, yay, and the ground buzz was tamed.

This morning I ordered it some new tuners and a roller bridge, and I cleaned the crud from the fretboard and oiled it. It actually looks good considering its dysfunctional history, but will never be a 10. I think I will fix everything I can on this guitar and like it for what it used to be. With some work, it can be a great player, and one configured the way I think Liquids should be. And so yes, @sabasgr68 , I guess this would be a Christmas guitar.
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sabasgr68
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BatUtilityBelt wrote: Thu Nov 23, 2023 1:01 pm And so yes, @sabasgr68 , I guess this would be a Christmas guitar.
Oh yes, it´s an early Christmas- 'I-need-much-love'-guitar!

As you say, it might not be a 10 guitar, but if you´re liking it, and you get it to play like you want, it´s cool!

When it´s due time, enjoy it!

:)

PS: Still, something tells me this won´t be your last Christmas guitar this year... ;)
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toomanycats
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Very handsome guitar. What a great combination a cream body, white pickguard, and rosewood neck are on a Liquid. Sorry about the multiple issues, though it sounds like you're going to be able to straighten them out.

You peaked my curiosity in referencing "home recipe wood putty." I've never made my own before, though I've gone through a lot of Elmers brand wood filler. Do you make your own, and if so, what do you use?
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andrewsrea
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HNGD! Worthwhile things sometimes come with a healthy dose of elbow grease!

That said, I think SJM was an acronym for 'Sexier Jazz Master' and yours looks marvelous!

I have a 2008 SJM-62 that I put my AMI Firebird Pickup's into and its a rocker. I keep toying with the idea making some JM pickups for it since I have two other guitars with FB pickups.
SX SJM 62 Minis.jpg
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BatUtilityBelt
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toomanycats wrote: Fri Nov 24, 2023 5:00 am Very handsome guitar. What a great combination a cream body, white pickguard, and rosewood neck are on a Liquid. Sorry about the multiple issues, though it sounds like you're going to be able to straighten them out.

You peaked my curiosity in referencing "home recipe wood putty." I've never made my own before, though I've gone through a lot of Elmers brand wood filler. Do you make your own, and if so, what do you use?
As you suspected, it is coming along. For wood filler, I tend to make it by mixing sawdust of a similar wood with wood glue until I get the consistency I want to work with. For example, if I want rosewood color, I will sand the end of a piece of rosewood for the sawdust portion. just to get a near match.
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BatUtilityBelt
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andrewsrea wrote: Fri Nov 24, 2023 11:03 am HNGD! Worthwhile things sometimes come with a healthy dose of elbow grease!

That said, I think SJM was an acronym for 'Sexier Jazz Master' and yours looks marvelous!

I have a 2008 SJM-62 that I put my AMI Firebird Pickup's into and its a rocker. I keep toying with the idea making some JM pickups for it since I have two other guitars with FB pickups.
That acronym fits! Yours is a drop dead gorgeous color. I found the old Rondo listing matching mine, and it must also be an SJM-62. If I knew about them when they first came out, I'd have probably bought several to lightly mod (just electronics). I picked up several of the recent Liquid hard tails at closeout prices for that purpose, but I wish they had this trem and rosewood.
https://www.rondomusic.com/sjm62vwhleft.html
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tobijohn
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Do you have any idea yet on how you're going to address the chipping around the neck pocket?
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BatUtilityBelt
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tobijohn wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2023 9:03 am Do you have any idea yet on how you're going to address the chipping around the neck pocket?
I haven't gotten that far yet. I'm torn between leaving it relic'd and refinishing it. I know there is a middle ground, but I'm not good at paint matching, so that's not on the table. What I do know is that I like this neck a little more than my other Liquids, and that's saying a lot because I think they're all great. I also like the pickups a lot, but will change the pots. It doesn't seem like these are the same P90s as used on the 3 pickup Liquids.
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BatUtilityBelt wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2023 10:03 am
...I also like the pickups a lot, but will change the pots. It doesn't seem like these are the same P90s as used on the 3 pickup Liquids.
I'd be surprised if they were, the SJMs could be almost a decade older than the ones in the latest batch of three pickup lefty Liquids.
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BatUtilityBelt
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tobijohn wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2023 10:27 am I'd be surprised if they were, the SJMs could be almost a decade older than the ones in the latest batch of three pickup lefty Liquids.
Yeah, I'm sure you're right. Those pickups are the only thing that makes me want to keep this one close to original. A couple other Liquids are getting different pickups and Jaguar control plates. Here is an MDF template and clear plastic template I just cut together for that purpose.
Pickguard Template.jpg
I will experiment with 2-pickup vs 3 pickup configuration, and some are pickguard mounted.
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BatUtilityBelt wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2023 12:37 pm
A couple other Liquids are getting different pickups and Jaguar control plates. Here is an MDF template and clear plastic template I just cut together for that purpose.
Is that pickguard being cut for three mini-humbuckers?
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BatUtilityBelt
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tobijohn wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2023 12:42 pm Is that pickguard being cut for three mini-humbuckers?
Nope. The lines and pickup mounting holes you see are for the pickups from a 1960's Conrad branded Teisco. They're P90 like, but slightly smaller. Somewhere between P90 and Burns pickups, closer to P90 sized but smaller in both directions, pictured here.
Leads dont reach.jpg
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BatUtilityBelt wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2023 1:08 pm
Nope. The lines and pickup mounting holes you see are for the pickups from a 1960's Conrad branded Teisco. They're P90 like, but slightly smaller. Somewhere between P90 and Burns pickups, closer to P90 sized but smaller in both directions, pictured here.
Well, while you're at it, how about making one for three minis, and seeing as how you mentioned them, another for a triple set of Tri-sonics? :)
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BatUtilityBelt
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tobijohn wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2023 1:17 pm Well, while you're at it, how about making one for three minis, and seeing as how you mentioned them, another for a triple set of Tri-sonics? :)
The only mini HBs and Tri-sonics I have are already in guitars. But I suppose I could cut a couple more blanks without the pickup holes and you could finish those? I have 1/8" and 1/16" basswood veneered plywood and 1/8" walnut veneered panel. The clear one I'm experimenting with is plexiglass, and it turns out it cracks too easily with my ham-fisted tooling, so I wouldn't suggest that, though I will use it just to test the Teisco pickups.
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BatUtilityBelt wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2023 1:45 pm
The only mini HBs and Tri-sonics I have are already in guitars. But I suppose I could cut a couple more blanks without the pickup holes and you could finish those? I have 1/8" and 1/16" basswood veneered plywood and 1/8" walnut veneered panel. The clear one I'm experimenting with is plexiglass, and it turns out it cracks too easily with my ham-fisted tooling, so I wouldn't suggest that, though I will use it just to test the Teisco pickups.
Thank you very much but actually, I was just kidding with you. What I wouldn't mind though is if you maybe saved the finished tracing and someday send me a copy of it. That would save me a lot of time and error. I try to adhere to "measure twice, cut once," but it usually ends up being "measure twice, cut about a half dozen times." I especially like the Jaguar control plate and would like to incorporate it on my two Liquids.

Also, do you remember where you got the control plate?
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tobijohn wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2023 3:20 pm Thank you very much but actually, I was just kidding with you. What I wouldn't mind though is if you maybe saved the finished tracing and someday send me a copy of it. That would save me a lot of time and error. I try to adhere to "measure twice, cut once," but it usually ends up being "measure twice, cut about a half dozen times." I especially like the Jaguar control plate and would like to incorporate it on my two Liquids.

Also, do you remember where you got the control plate?
I bought a few of those control plates from EYGUITAR https://www.eyguitarmusic.com/ because they were nice enough to stock the lefty Jaguar parts! The bottom screw hole location on those matches perfectly the bottom screw hole on the Liquid pickguard, so only the top 2 need drilling. That let me test fit one before the pickguard design had to match it... Love it when something like that works out. I had to slightly widen that lower arm of the pickguard design where the metal control plate meets it, but that was easy to do by hand. After that, the rest is Liquid standard shape.

I'll be happy to cut an extra piece of material double-stick taped to the ones I make myself and send it to you. That will be the exact shape of mine, and I tend to drill the mounting holes before I unstick them, so those would be in it for reference. No more work than tracing it when I'm already cutting several. Just PM your mailing address.
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Thanks, very much appreciated. I've already got the pickguard stock I'm going to use for each (pearlescent white and chrome finishes), but would welcome something I could use as a template...
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BatUtilityBelt
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No problem at all, piece of cake. This was the 1st time I ever cut 4 pickguards at the same time, and it felt just like 3. :D
4 Pickguards.jpg
Here's what it will be like. Test fit it before you trace, I haven't finished any of them yet.
Basswood Guard.jpg
Brendan
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I bid on that one when it was first listed. I believe I bid higher than what it ultimately sold for. I prefer the rosewood necks for this model, but Kurt’s sale of $129 for a new one was too appealing. I hope you give the seller appropriate feedback. At least you’ve got the skills to get it sorted.
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BatUtilityBelt
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Brendan wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 10:37 am I bid on that one when it was first listed. I believe I bid higher than what it ultimately sold for. I prefer the rosewood necks for this model, but Kurt’s sale of $129 for a new one was too appealing. I hope you give the seller appropriate feedback. At least you’ve got the skills to get it sorted.
I'm sorry your bid was rejected, been there a lot. I think they ended up taking my $150 because it sat for 5 months. A lot of sellers have high expectations early on, and Liquids seem to get over-valued by sellers most of the time. I also prefer rosewood fretboards on these. I like playing it already. The trem is dialed in so well now it keeps tune despite lacking a roller bridge.
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Today the SJM got new staggered locking tuners from GF, yay. But it didn't happen without yet another surprise. I went to change them out last night, and found the screw holes were, let's say distressed by whoever had this guitar before me. It was bad enough I decided to plug all the old screw holes last night and drill new holes this morning. Now the new tuners are in a straight line, all the same size, and work great.
New tuners.jpg
It seems every time I work on something for this guitar, I get a rude surprise. I know I want to shield the cavities, but I'm afraid when I take the pickguard off I'll find mouse bones or a finger or something.
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Gearlist: SX Liquid. SX Hawk. Sawtooth Tele. Ibanez GAX70L. SX Callisto STD+. Ibanez miKro bass. Jay Turser Pbass. Carvin LB70L.

Sorry for the thread necromancy, but do any of you guys know what was the approximate last year of the SJM Liquid?
Thanks.
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