Ok... Progress and completion!
After about a month, the pickups with the "Rosewood" covers arrived from China, and they looked pretty good out of the box.
They had a fancy, engraved brass plate and a braided shield, but this doesn't look like wood to me....
Sure enough, the covers were plastic.
They do look like Rosewood with a satin finish, but the more I thought about it, the less I liked the idea of spending $40 for a pair of plastic covers if I didn't like the pickups, and since the seller never mentioned once in any of their listings that these cover were anything other than "Maple", "Rosewood" or "Mahogany", I didn't like the idea of the seller duping anyone else into thinking these were real wood, so I started the return process with Amazon. Amazon refunded my money and let me keep the pickups, which makes sense, since they would have to go back to China, and nobody wants to pay for that shipping.
So I decided to use the covers, and installed the pickups that came in them too, just to hear what they sound like. They sound pretty good, but they are not RWRP, so I'm going to take them out and put the Gibson P90s in there, but here's the completed guitar. I'm pretty jazzed about how it came out:
This build wasn't without its challenging moments. For example; I had to block the trem on this guitar, because when I went to install the claw, one of the screws ran right into one of the bridge pickup's mounting screws. I was able to screw the claw in about as far I would on a regular Strat, but with these heavy-gauge strings, there just wasn't enough tension on the springs. The bridge just kept lifting when I tuned it, and I couldn't reach a point of balance. I think it's just as well, anyway. I was little iffy about trying to set up a floating trem situation on a baritone guitar in the first place.
Also, I'm not sure about the tuners I used. I installed Wikinson E-Z Lock tuners because I had them lying around, but it's a bear trying to thread stiff, heavy strings through both holes in the post, and I had to drill out the holes on the 6th string tuner because the string wouldn't fit. I didn't put that string through both holes. It would have been impossible. Also, the tuners are really stiff, and take some effort to turn with all the tension. As far as I know, there's no such thing as dedicated baritone guitar tuners, so I'm not really sure what to do about that.
Otherwise, the build came together like a breeze, and it was almost instantly playable. Usually, after I get a guitar completely assembled, I have to do a LOT of tweaking to get it right. I used to panic a little bit every time I'd complete the build and think: "Oh my God, I just spent the last few months building an unplayable wall-hanger!". But after I got strings on this, all I had to do was raise the saddles a bit, and tighten the truss just a hair, and everything fell into place.
It took me a while to wrap my head around this guitar, though. It's just a little weird to play familiar chord shapes and not hear the chord you're expecting. I'm also not at all quick about transposing on the fly. It takes me a minute to figure out where I need to put my fingers to get the chord I want. But I'm getting used to it. I've abandoned trying to play songs I know, and I'm in full "exploratory mode" now, coming up with new stuff. That's what playing a different instrument is supposed to do, anyway... Inspire you to come up with stuff that you wouldn't on your regular instrument.
I also can't express how good this guitar feels to play. The entire guitar has a satin finish, and it feels so smooth, and woody, and organic. It's also very resonant and "alive". The WD neck I used fit the neck pocket nice and snug (something I always have to cross my fingers about when matching parts from different makers), and you can feel the whole guitar vibrate when you play it.
The weight tops out right at 9lbs, which is what I was expecting/hoping for. Even though it's a thinline, it's still made of Ash, so the body weighs about as much as a solid Alder body would, and the longer neck adds to the weight as well. I have regular guitars that weigh 9 lbs, so I don't think this is too heavy for a baritone.
Mosstone Thinline Baritone Strat Project
It looks great! Your projects always inspire me to get going again on mine (and one time I might actually ). As for the pickup covers, I think black would look fine, the rosewood ones with that finish and pickguard IMHO, might be a bit too much...
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That looks awesome! And now the bad news... I have some purpleheart and canarywood sitting around and you just made me want to measure to see if it is thick enough to make P90 covers.
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Great job! Boutique guitar as usual.
I don´t know what a baritone guitar would sound or play, but if it plays great to you, then it´s all good!
I like the wood-looking all around.
Black plastic P90 covers as John suggests might work ok, consider it´s almost as dark. They certainly wouldn´t look out of place, in any case, but those ones doesn´t look bad either.
Now, something against back side pictures?
I don´t know what a baritone guitar would sound or play, but if it plays great to you, then it´s all good!
I like the wood-looking all around.
Black plastic P90 covers as John suggests might work ok, consider it´s almost as dark. They certainly wouldn´t look out of place, in any case, but those ones doesn´t look bad either.
Now, something against back side pictures?
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Thanks, man!
But... but... what if a bit too much was what I was going for? Actually, those covers look a lot better in real life than they do in the photos. The rest of the colors are pretty accurate (which was a pleasant surprise for a change), but no matter what I did, those covers always ended up looking kinda greyish and washed out. I think it's just the way that light reflects off of them. They're really a rich, dark brown that closely matches the fretboard, and they do look remarkably like wood. I would be ok with black plastic, though... I might have to be. I don't think those covers are going to fit the Gibson P90s.
Well, if they're at least an inch thick, that would be more than enough. I can't say that I'd like to make pickup covers out of wood without a CNC machine, though.BatUtilityBelt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:29 pm That looks awesome! And now the bad news... I have some purpleheart and canarywood sitting around and you just made me want to measure to see if it is thick enough to make P90 covers.
Thanks again, Corduroy... You know, I just realized that I almost never take pictures of the backs of the guitars. It's not deliberate, I just don't think to do it... I probably reckoned that nobody wanted to see the back of the guitar, but since you mentioned it, here you go:sabasgr68 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:32 pm Great job! Boutique guitar as usual.
I don´t know what a baritone guitar would sound or play, but if it plays great to you, then it´s all good!
I like the wood-looking all around.
Black plastic P90 covers as John suggests might work ok, consider it´s almost as dark. They certainly wouldn´t look out of place, in any case, but those ones doesn´t look bad either.
Now, something against back side pictures?
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I forgot to mention; as soon as I get more accustomed to playing this thing, and I come up with something cool to play that showcases its bartone-ness (ack!), I intend to make a video. It does play great (if I may say so myself. ), and the pickups actually sound really good. If they were RWRP, I'd keep them in there, but I can't abide 60-cycle hum in ALL positions.
I often feel bad that nobody can hear what these guitars that I build sound like, and I always intend to make a demo video, or at least an audio demo, but I never seem to find the time for it. Sometimes I feel like there's no way anybody is going to hear what they sound like in the room from a recording over the internet, anyway, so sitting there saying: "...and this is what the neck pickup sounds like [play a riff]... and this is what the bridge pickup sounds like [play a riff]... etc." seems kinda pointless. But I'm going to use my newly revived inspiration to record as a means of showcasing these instruments. Unless I find it "necessary" to play a store-bought guitar (like if I need a 335-type sound, or something), I intend to use mostly my own guitars and basses.
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I agree. Good news is I have a CNC mill. Bad news is both those pieces are just over 3/4"Mossman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:55 pmWell, if they're at least an inch thick, that would be more than enough. I can't say that I'd like to make pickup covers out of wood without a CNC machine, though.BatUtilityBelt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:29 pm That looks awesome! And now the bad news... I have some purpleheart and canarywood sitting around and you just made me want to measure to see if it is thick enough to make P90 covers.
There's a workaround for that but at this moment I don't recall where I read about it. However, I either bookmarked or copied and converted it to a PDF. Give me a few days to find it...
EDIT - It's in this thread:
https://forum.gibson.com/topic/56103-ea ... lling-mod/
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Proud RINO trapped in a heavy metal chassis
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What?? You have a CNC?? How big is it? Can you make guitar bodies?BatUtilityBelt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:46 pmI agree. Good news is I have a CNC mill. Bad news is both those pieces are just over 3/4"Mossman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:55 pmWell, if they're at least an inch thick, that would be more than enough. I can't say that I'd like to make pickup covers out of wood without a CNC machine, though.BatUtilityBelt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:29 pm That looks awesome! And now the bad news... I have some purpleheart and canarywood sitting around and you just made me want to measure to see if it is thick enough to make P90 covers.
The P90 I have on my desk right now measure 5/8", so yeah, that's pretty tight.
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Thanks for digging that up, John, but I'm practically swimming in P90s over here... It's a lot less fiddly to swap out the pickups, and if I don't like the Gibsons in this, then I've got plenty of other options to choose from. I'll probably use one of these in the neck position of the flame maple Tele I'll be building next. That will save me from having to bust up a proper matched set.tobijohn wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:04 pmThere's a workaround for that but at this moment I don't recall where I read about it. However, I either bookmarked or copied and converted it to a PDF. Give me a few days to find it...
EDIT - It's in this thread:
https://forum.gibson.com/topic/56103-ea ... lling-mod/
It's funny, though... That procedure he described sounded like a lot more trouble than just switching the wires and flipping the magnets, and he said he didn't want to have to deal with that?
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I haven't tried it yet myself, I found that while trying to come up with a solution for a set of Gibson P90s out of a Custom Shop guitar (I think it was a 55 Reissue) that also were not RWRP...
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Proud RINO trapped in a heavy metal chassis
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Love that authenticity... Right down to the details that nobody wanted even back then. That reminds me of the previous '52 RI Tele (before the model line re-brand) that was wired to make the neck pickup useless, just like the good ol' days! They should have just wired it the modern way, and included in the case candy all the bits you need to cripple it if you want to.
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The aesthetics of every single one of your projects or even just upgrades have been impeccable...
Delightful mix of insolence, arrogance and narcissism
Proud RINO trapped in a heavy metal chassis
Growing up, only kid in the neighborhood with an Uncle Ahkbar
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- BatUtilityBelt
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I dreamed of getting a CNC big enough for guitar bodies, but no. Mine is a Taig and has X and Y travels of 12" and (barely under) 6". I bought it for metal parts, but have done some wood projects on it too. It leaves a lot of hand-finishing to do, but P90 covers would be in its wheelhouse.
What about pickguards? Say, like a three mini-humbucker one for a Liquid? And a mirrored one for a Harm? And a black one for an Agile Ghost? And one for a Reville Q90 Jazzmaster copy that with take a three set of Burns Tri-Sonics? And one for a Fishbone Firebird copy? And one for a custom single pickup AL? And one for a yet unassembled Explorer kit? And one for a SX P90 Callisto? And a black or mirrored one for a Firefly SG?BatUtilityBelt wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:03 am ...t leaves a lot of hand-finishing to do, but P90 covers would be in its wheelhouse.
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Some of that is probably possible, but some are too large. I have never cut glass with it, and I don't know what kind of end mill would handle that, but I could look into it (for the mirror). I know acrylic can be cut with a mill, but I have never had good luck dialing in the right speeds to keep that from gumming up. I imagine the same to be true for most plastics. The mill spins fast and easily generates heat with friction, and plastics can get sticky. That's why I've never tried traditional pickguard materials on it. If someone has a lead on how to get pickguard materials super cheap, I could do some experimenting there, but at typical prices, throw-aways would be costly.tobijohn wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:57 amWhat about pickguards? Say, like a three mini-humbucker one for a Liquid? And a mirrored one for a Harm? And a black one for an Agile Ghost? And one for a Reville Q90 Jazzmaster copy that with take a three set of Burns Tri-Sonics? And one for a Fishbone Firebird copy? And one for a custom single pickup AL? And one for a yet unassembled Explorer kit? And one for a SX P90 Callisto? And a black or mirrored one for a Firefly SG?BatUtilityBelt wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:03 am ...t leaves a lot of hand-finishing to do, but P90 covers would be in its wheelhouse.
My mill could probably cut any pickguard that could fit inside an 11-1/2" x 5-1/2" rectangle. I have used it for brass, aluminum, soft steel, woods, and various prototyping materials. The problem with materials is that you have to buy end mills specific to the type of materials being cut. The same mills that can cut through steel are not good for brass or wood, for example.
I would also need a 3D model of the pickguard to be cut. That would be loaded into software that creates the toolpath for the mill to follow. The software I use to make 3D part models is good at mechanical parts, but not as useful for artistic designs.
Thanks but I wasn't really serious. I'm going to try to find an elf after the usual post Christmas round of lay-offs and have him do it old school...BatUtilityBelt wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:02 pmSome of that is probably possible, but some are too large. I have never cut glass with it, and I don't know what kind of end mill would handle that, but I could look into it (for the mirror). I know acrylic can be cut with a mill, but I have never had good luck dialing in the right speeds to keep that from gumming up. I imagine the same to be true for most plastics. The mill spins fast and easily generates heat with friction, and plastics can get sticky. That's why I've never tried traditional pickguard materials on it. If someone has a lead on how to get pickguard materials super cheap, I could do some experimenting there, but at typical prices, throw-aways would be costly.tobijohn wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:57 am
What about pickguards? Say, like a three mini-humbucker one for a Liquid? And a mirrored one for a Harm? And a black one for an Agile Ghost? And one for a Reville Q90 Jazzmaster copy that with take a three set of Burns Tri-Sonics? And one for a Fishbone Firebird copy? And one for a custom single pickup AL? And one for a yet unassembled Explorer kit? And one for a SX P90 Callisto? And a black or mirrored one for a Firefly SG?
My mill could probably cut any pickguard that could fit inside an 11-1/2" x 5-1/2" square. I have used it for brass, aluminum, soft steel, woods, and various prototyping materials. The problem with materials is that you have to buy end mills specific to the type of materials being cut. The same mills that can cut through steel are not good for brass or wood, for example.
I would also need a 3D model of the pickguard to be cut. That would be loaded into software that creates the toolpath for the mill to follow. The software I use to make 3D part models is good at mechanical parts, but not as useful for artistic designs.
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Proud RINO trapped in a heavy metal chassis
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Hehe, I wasn't too sure. If we did look at doing those, it would take quite a while to get to it anyway. Lots of projects. But I have always intended to do a few similar things with guitar using the mill.
Thanks guys... That means a lot to me. In a previous life I made my living as a graphic artist, until I got burned out in that field... I worked in just about every medium you can imagine back then, but now, it seems the medium I work in most (or at all, really) is "guitar". I would say a large part of my desire (some would say: "obsession") to build guitars is driven by an unfulfilled artistic urge. Each build starts with a picture, in my head, after all... It's very gratifying to take that imaginary image and make it "real". It's even more gratifying that you all seem to dig what I do too.
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Have you ever thought about building a CNC that's big enough to do bodies? I have, but I don't have the space.BatUtilityBelt wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:03 amI dreamed of getting a CNC big enough for guitar bodies, but no. Mine is a Taig and has X and Y travels of 12" and (barely under) 6". I bought it for metal parts, but have done some wood projects on it too. It leaves a lot of hand-finishing to do, but P90 covers would be in its wheelhouse.
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I gave it some thought, and even went to an auction for a huge gantry mill once before I realized I also don't have the room without getting rid of a couple of workstations. I still haven't even made my winder worth what I paid yet. Maybe this winter I will manage to hit that bar, but I have a feeling re-flooring my living room and main hall will take the wind out of that sail.
How much does a good winder generally cost? I've only seen cheap ($200-ish) winders from China. I've thought about trying my hand at pickup winding, just to make pickups for my own builds. I'm not interested in manufacturing and selling them, so I don't want to spend too much money on a winder, but I have a real aversion to buying a cheap, no-name machine direct from China.BatUtilityBelt wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:58 pmI gave it some thought, and even went to an auction for a huge gantry mill once before I realized I also don't have the room without getting rid of a couple of workstations. I still haven't even made my winder worth what I paid yet. Maybe this winter I will manage to hit that bar, but I have a feeling re-flooring my living room and main hall will take the wind out of that sail.
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