NGD: Squier CV 60's Jazzmaster

[BatUtilityBelt]

White wouldn't be my first choice, but in person this white is better than the store pictures. You might have read my FedEx run-around thread about this guitar coming, but it arrived today. It checked out and everything worked, even plays and sounds great out of the box without much setup, with just one issue... serious noise.

I initially thought it severely needed cavity shielding, but after I while I realized the buzzing gets louder when I touch the strings, bridge, or trem. It gets quieter when I touch the output jack. So that's a grounding problem. I asked Fender for a lefty wiring diagram in case I need to rewire the whole thing, but I don't think I will, here's why. I made a little jumper cable to try a test:

Running an alligator clip wire from the output jack to the tremolo let me verify exactly what's bad about the wiring. The bridge and trem are grounded to each other, but not to a common ground anywhere. With the patch wire, it sounds great, very little noise at all. So I will keep it, and will get those parts grounded. If the cavities are unshielded, I will shield them too, just for good measure because Jazzmaster pickups are among the worst for picking up RFI.

[Tonray's Ghost]

Nice axe...I am contemplating getting the J. Mascis SquierJM at some point. I hate the gold anodized pickguard and want to swap in a mint green...but many posts around the net seem to say that the noise level increases exponentially without the gold guard. I guess I wil try using copper tape on the back of the new guard to see if that will make it a bit better....my house is quite noisy electrically...I usually only play the 2 and 4 positions on the Strat due to this....hoping not a big issue though

[BatUtilityBelt]

Nice axe...I am contemplating getting the J. Mascis SquierJM at some point. I hate the gold anodized pickguard and want to swap in a mint green...but many posts around the net seem to say that the noise level increases exponentially without the gold guard. I guess I wil try using copper tape on the back of the new guard to see if that will make it a bit better....my house is quite noisy electrically...I usually only play the 2 and 4 positions on the Strat due to this....hoping not a big issue though

Nice, and yes, mint green PGs are great. Those pickups absolutely need shielding around them, but yes, the copper tape will do just fine. It's a good idea to shield the cavity inside the body too, and then ground that - the shielding tape on the pick guard will then send any noise across to the grounded cavity shielding.

[honyock]

looks great, definitely one on my list. I wish they offered some other colors too (not sunburst or black either). Maybe I'll just have to build one to get what I want...

[tobijohn]

I wonder if the normal ground wire from the bridge to one of the pots just came loose?

[Mossman]

I think TJ's right. There should be a ground wire that makes contact with one of the bridge studs and connects to a ground point. There may be a loose wire in the cavity, not connected to anything, or they may have forgotten to ground the bridge altogether.

[redman]

@tobijohn I think you hit the nail on the head not often but occasionally there will be a cold solder joint on top of a pot or anywhere there is a puddle of solder required to ground components.

[BatUtilityBelt]

@tobijohn I think you hit the nail on the head not often but occasionally there will be a cold solder joint on top of a pot or anywhere there is a puddle of solder required to ground components.

I don't doubt it, and will find out in a few days. After clearing thousands of maple tree helicopters out of my gutters, my arm is not steady enough to solder right now.

[Tonray's Ghost]

@tobijohn I think you hit the nail on the head not often but occasionally there will be a cold solder joint on top of a pot or anywhere there is a puddle of solder required to ground components.

I don't doubt it, and will find out in a few days. After clearing thousands of maple tree helicopters out of my gutters, my arm is not steady enough to solder right now.

[BatUtilityBelt]

Gutter%20Brushes%

Unfortunately, we get serious snow and ice storms here too. Messing with that creates something we call "ice dams" on roofs, which is something to avoid at all costs. I'd take tropical weather tho!

[Tonray's Ghost]

Gutter%20Brushes%

Unfortunately, we get serious snow and ice storms here too. Messing with that creates something we call "ice dams" on roofs, which is something to avoid at all costs. I'd take tropical weather tho!

The only ice storms we get here are when I find out the GF has used all the ice cubes and neglected to refill the trays !

[Mossman]

No ice storms in southern California.... But the weather is the only thing that's good about this place.

[BatUtilityBelt]

Well this ticks me off a bit. I took the strings and tremolo off to learn the trem isn't grounded, just the bridge (which would be fine). I plugged the guitar in to hear the buzz while I was examining it. I flipped the pickguard out, and the buzz stopped. The solder joints look fine, but without the buzz it's hard to tell. Just for good measure, I remelted the solder on the pots and added a little. I closed it back up, put the bridge and trem back on, and started stringing it back up. As I put tension on the strings - boom. The buzz is back.

So it turns out the problem must be the solder joint on the bridge post, which only gets bent out of contact with string pressure (or I am crazy and missing something else). Ugh.

[tobijohn]

Well this ticks me off a bit. I took the strings and tremolo off to learn the trem isn't grounded, just the bridge (which would be fine). I plugged the guitar in to hear the buzz while I was examining it. I flipped the pickguard out, and the buzz stopped. The solder joints look fine, but without the buzz it's hard to tell. Just for good measure, I remelted the solder on the pots and added a little. I closed it back up, put the bridge and trem back on, and started stringing it back up. As I put tension on the strings - boom. The buzz is back.

So it turns out the problem must be the solder joint on the bridge post, which only gets bent out of contact with string pressure (or I am crazy and missing something else). Ugh.

That sounds logical to me. How does that aspect of the wiring compare with the one in your avatar? Also, I have nothing with a tremolo separate from the bridge but on the LP styles that I've dug that deep into, the ground wire is not soldered to the anchor posts, it's just sandwiched in there against one of them. I'm surprised I haven't had more grounding issues. BTW, what's the make/model of the offset in your avatar?

[BatUtilityBelt]

That sounds logical to me. How does that aspect of the wiring compare with the one in your avatar? Also, I have nothing with a tremolo separate from the bridge but on the LP styles that I've dug that deep into, the ground wire is not soldered to the anchor posts, it's just sandwiched in there against one of them. I'm surprised I haven't had more grounding issues. BTW, what's the make/model of the offset in your avatar?

Kato (my avatar Jazzmaster) is the only Warmoth build I've ever done. The body came brand new from them with the bridge posts already in and a ground wire run from the close one. So it's wired the same, just that Warmoth did a better job grounding it.

On the good news side, for anyone who hates the vintage style tuners - The thing I love about vintage style tuners is that you can take strings off and put them back on reliably because you cut the strings to length before pushing them down into the slot. That is going to save me several string changes getting this grounding problem resolved.

[tobijohn]

Kato (my avatar Jazzmaster) is the only Warmoth build I've ever done. The body came brand new from them with the bridge posts already in and a ground wire run from the close one. So it's wired the same, just that Warmoth did a better job grounding it.

Who did the finish?

[BatUtilityBelt]

Who did the finish?

That's Warmoth's dragon burst. I don't have that skill in my tool kit.

[BatUtilityBelt]

Oops, I stand corrected. I just went through my build pictures of Kato. One is fresh in the box with no posts, so I must have pressed those in, just didn't remember. But it also has the run drilled from the trem cavity to the control cavity, so I grounded the trem instead of the bridge post.

[honyock]

Maybe the rocking bridge setup doesn't have good enough contact from the pointy grub screws to the cups? If you pitch up or dive with a piece of wood of some other insulator does the buzz change? It may only ground out well enough when the legs of the bridge touch the cups not the grub screws.

[BatUtilityBelt]

Maybe the rocking bridge setup doesn't have good enough contact from the pointy grub screws to the cups? If you pitch up or dive do the buzz change? It may only ground out well enough when the legs of the bridge touch the cups not the grub screws.

Wow, that's a great thought! I just tried it a few times, and a couple attempts at deep dive-bombing without touching any of those parts (only the plastic of the trem arm), it did short-in (is that a term?) and make contact. So you might be right. I'm going to see if I can wrap the bridge post in a thin wire to make that a constant contact. I may be looking for a better way to ground it.

[honyock]

Maybe the rocking bridge setup doesn't have good enough contact from the pointy grub screws to the cups? If you pitch up or dive do the buzz change? It may only ground out well enough when the legs of the bridge touch the cups not the grub screws.

Wow, that's a great thought! I just tried it a few times, and a couple attempts at deep dive-bombing without touching any of those parts (only the plastic of the trem arm), it did short-in (is that a term?) and make contact. So you might be right. I'm going to see if I can wrap the bridge post in a thin wire to make that a constant contact. I may be looking for a better way to ground it.

Might be easier to trim a piece of pen spring that is just long enough to make constant contact with both the post and cup, but not take away the rocking ability. That is what makes the vibrato work so well for that shimmery goodness that is the Jazzmaster vibrato.

[BatUtilityBelt]

@honyock I tried another test of your theory and it checks out. Just one turn of this wire around the bridge post made the contact better (but still crackles with movement).

I think my preference will be to figure out how I can safely drill the tunnel from the trem to the control cavity. That way I know I can make a rock solid ground. The bad news is this must be a problem all the CV 60's Jazzmasters would be prone to.

[ID10t]

@honyock I tried another test of your theory and it checks out. Just one turn of this wire around the bridge post made the contact better (but still crackles with movement).
Pig tail ground.jpg
I think my preference will be to figure out how I can safely drill the tunnel from the trem to the control cavity. That way I know I can make a rock solid ground. The bad news is this must be a problem all the CV 60's Jazzmasters would be prone to.

I don't want to reinforce my ignorance and I don't have a Jazzmaster. Is there something you can do with copper foil tape under the trem to eliminate any break in circuit?

[mickey]

@honyock I tried another test of your theory and it checks out. Just one turn of this wire around the bridge post made the contact better (but still crackles with movement).
Pig tail ground.jpg
I think my preference will be to figure out how I can safely drill the tunnel from the trem to the control cavity. That way I know I can make a rock solid ground. The bad news is this must be a problem all the CV 60's Jazzmasters would be prone to.

I don't want to reinforce my ignorance and I don't have a Jazzmaster. Is there something you can do with copper foil tape under the trem to eliminate any break in circuit?

I was wondering if that is the why behind the OP early in this thread talking about the importance of full shielding of Jazzmasters?

[sabasgr68]

@BatUtilityBelt I´m starting to like those offset guitars. The body and pickguard color combination of your Fender looks good. Hope you get to a definitive solution of the ground problem. One thing about them, though: they need to have 22 frets. 21 fret necks don´t do it for me...

In my own "Only 5 instruments to have" rule, I believe that it would be a LP single cut style, a LP DC style, one of these Jazzmaster, and two acoustics - one for nylon strings, and one for metal strings -. So far I´m 2/5 on the list - my nylon acoustic, even though it´s a no brand crappy 43 years old guitar, still qualifies as an "acoustic nylon strings" -.