Mosstone Thinline Baritone Strat Project

[Mossman]

All the renewed talk going on lately about the current Ash situation motivated me to get cracking on a guitar project that's been on the back-burner for some time. About a year and half ago, I got interested in acquiring a baritone guitar. I came very close to buying a PRS 227 SE when Pro Audio Star was blowing them out for $550, but as is my usual wont, I decided to build a baritone instead.

I found a good deal on an unfinished baritone neck from WD, but since I had other projects that I needed to finish first, that's as far as I got with it, and I kinda forgot about it. But after hearing that Fender plans to stop using ash for guitar bodies, I figured I better get me some before it becomes unobtainium. I was going to go with the guy who made the Eclipse (Meteora) body for me, but he has since completely switched over from Ash to Pine. I didn't contact him or anything, but I assume he must be having trouble obtaining Ash. Fortunately, I found what I was looking for from another ebay seller. I had seen these guys before (Supra-Tone), but they don't do custom work like the other guy does, so they've never been my first choice. But they had what I was looking for, so I bought this (should have it tomorrow):

It had to be a thinline, because that's not Swamp Ash, and every solid body made out of Northern Ash that I've ever seen weighs 6-6.5 lbs. With the longer baritone neck, this guitar would end up a boat anchor when it's all put together (actually, it would be a boat anchor with a regular neck), but this body only weighs about 4.5 lbs. If it's under 9lbs when it's finished, I'll be happy.

Now I find myself in a peculiar situation. Usually, when I get an idea for a guitar build, I know exactly what kind of finish I'm going to do, what kind of pickups it's going to have, and all the particular details are sorted out before I buy the first part. This time, I'm not so sure. All I know is that after doing the burst on the "Sun King" Strat, I'm leaning away from reds and oranges and more towards the cooler end of the spectrum.

I originally considered doing a blue-burst. Something like this:

or this...

But I don't know if I'm really feeling that.

I noticed that Angelus has a turquoise dye. That might not be bad:

It doesn't really lend itself to a burst (not as much fun to do), but I think it looks good. Of course, I don't know if the Angelus dye is going to look exactly that.


And I've always been a big fan of that golden-tint, natural ash look (even when I was a kid and every guitar had to be black, I had a soft spot for natural ash):

But there's nothing creative in that at all.


They also have a wine-red dye too.

Or I could go with staining the grain black with wine red on top. Some might call this "black cherry":

Whaddaya think?


I'm also on the fence about pickups. It was originally going to have 3 P90s, but that was when I could have the body routed however I wanted. I think a P90 will fit in the neck and bridge positions, but I also have a set of GFS Mean 90s that need a home too.

I haven't decided if I'll put a Strat pickup in the middle or not, but I'm thinking probably not..

[ILuvTeles]

Cool project. I love ash guitars & would vote for P90s.

[uwmcscott]

I'm a big fan of natural finishes, especially with pretty grain like that. Of those options I'd pick the natural/tint or maybe wine red all over. I love P90's too so that would be my vote.

[Mossman]

Cool project. I love ash guitars & would vote for P90s.

Any finish preferences?

I'm a big fan of natural finishes, especially with pretty grain like that. Of those options I'd pick the natural/tint or maybe wine red all over. I love P90's too so that would be my vote.

Yeah, I'm kinda torn. It's definitely got the grain for a natural finish, but I really enjoy doing these dye bursts. I don't talk about it much, but I am an artist by training and avocation (if no longer by profession), so it's hard for me to resist that creative urge... But Tru-Oil would probably look really good on it too... I don't know.

I'm leaning toward P90s myself, because I really like P90s, and that was what I was originally going to do. I've just had these Mean 90s laying around for a long time, and I thought it might be interesting to use those with the Strat pickup in the middle. What's weird too, is that I've grown to like the look of a Strat with P90s. I've come very close to buying an SX Hawk with P90s a few times, but there was always some other guitar I wanted more, and I figured I could always pick one up later.

[sabasgr68]

Great project.

I would vote for the first blue-burst one, or the "black cherry" in a 40-60 proportion, favoring the black cherry. As for pickups, I don´t have the expertise to give a good advice...

[Mossman]

Great project.

I would vote for the first blue-burst one, or the "black cherry" in a 40-60 proportion, favoring the black cherry. As for pickups, I don´t have the expertise to give a good advice...

Yeah, I know you like warm finishes. I had a feeling you would favor the red one. I didn't expect you to even mention the blue burst. I think a lot is going to depend on how the dyes actually look. I think I'm going to order an assortment of colors and test them on a board of ash. I went to the Angelus website yesterday and everything was out of stock. It's available on Amazon (in various colors), so I better get a move on that.

[littlebadboy]

That would be a cool project! I have a baritone and I love it!

Color-wise, I think the grain black stain with wine red on top or "black cherry" would be nice. The baritone groups I am in says baritones sound great with P90s. Although I haven't tried them, for me, baritones needs to have the clearest sounding pickups to define those low note registers. Mine has the SD Trembucker Distortion TB-6 bridge and Full Shred neck. The Full Shred neck sounds really clear but the Trembucker bridge is good at what it does - pushing driven tones.

Good luck! I am excited to see the outcome of that beast!

[ILuvTeles]

Cool project. I love ash guitars & would vote for P90s.

Any finish preferences?

Something that shows the grain. I have done natural & amber & red & like them all.

[aullucci]

I've never owned a baritone so I have no idea what pickups might sound good in one. But I'm going to vote for p90s too, because they're awesome.

I too love the look of that wood grain and would make sure any finish shows it off. I would go natural or maybe something in the amber family, although that turquoise really pops the wood grain too. With your skillz, it's going to look good whatever you pick...

[Mossman]

Well, it arrived today as promised! That was some fast shipping from Minnesota... I don't think I've received anything I've bought on ebay in less than a week, unless the seller was in California or Nevada.

The grain is just fabulous...

Not so much on the back, but... it's the back of the guitar.

This is definitely the most rough-milled body I ever bought. It's not a big deal. I have to sand it down anyway, but yeash! Makes me wonder what kind of bit they're using on their CNC machine.

There's some of that fuzz in spots around the perimeter of the body too, but I couldn't get any good pics of it.

Now that I've seen the body in person and held it in my hands, I'm really torn between a natural or dye finish. On one hand, it almost feels like a sin to alter the natural beauty of the wood (especially since there won't be much of it around soon), but on the other hand, not doing a finish on it feels like a wasted opportunity. Not just in the sense that I would be denying myself the gratification, but I've also considered selling my work, and would like to develop a portfolio of sorts to attract prospective clients. A natural finish isn't something that really bowls people over.

I ordered blue, turquoise, wine red and orange Angelus dye from Amazon this morning (from four different sellers). Pickings were pretty slim, and I was lucky to get all the colors I wanted. The Angelus website is completely bereft of product, so Amazon was my only other option (well, there's ebay too, I guess). I'm hoping that when I test them on a scrap piece of ash, something will knock my socks off and dissolve my indecision.

I'm pretty much 100% sure I'm going with P90s (because they are awesome. ), but now I'm starting to debate whether I want to go with 2, or 3 pickups. I think it'll be kind of a PITA to knock that wood out of there to make it a swimming pool rout, and I'm not sure if having a P90 in the middle position will be bothersome. But on the other hand, I like maximal tonal variation, and a Strat just looks cool with three P90s.










Any owners of the tri-P90 Liquid (or any other guitar with three P90s) care to share your experiences?

Looks like Pete rocks a Strat with P90s (What? He doesn't like SGs anymore?? ).

[sabasgr68]

The cherry black will still allow the grain to show. That would be my choice definitely. But it is your guitar!

[BatUtilityBelt]

That grain is gorgeous!

[Mossman]

The cherry black will still allow the grain to show. That would be my choice definitely. But it is your guitar!

Well, yeah, and I'll use black dye to emphasize the grain, but there's something about that natural wood tone (with a little light tint) that I find attractive.

[Mossman]

I realized that I hadn't checked the fitment of the neck yet, so I just did that. It fits nice and tight!

But this neck has an extended fretboard and the end of it comes pretty darn close to the edge of the pickup cavity. I thought I might have to sand it down to give the neck pickup enough clearance (it feels like it extends over the edge just slightly).

But there's a bit of wiggle room top to bottom. The pickguard will really determine how close the pickup gets, but I think it'll be good. And if I have to sand down the end of the extension a little bit, I'm good with that too.

That's an SX pickup cover (I'm going to put SX pickups in this, BTW) and it barely fits left-to-right. I contacted the seller before I bought it and asked him the pickup route dimensions, and I knew it was going to be a hair too small for Gibson/Epiphone P90 covers (nothing that a Dremel can't fix, though), but SX P90 covers are just a little bit thinner (that's why I had to use metal covers on the Epiphone P90 Pros I put in my Furrian. It wouldn't fit with the plastic covers).

Just for fun, I put the pickguard for the Sun King Strat on it to see how it would look:

Pretty good so far!

[Partscaster]

oops

[Partscaster]

I'ld go yellow center, and very narrow dark brown margin/edge surround.
A 2 tone finish, but easy on the brown width, with fade into the rich yellow body that will accentuate the grain.
No red at all.

Like this yellow, but maybe even narrower brown, no red, just some brown fade.

[Mossman]

I'ld go yellow center, and very narrow dark brown margin/edge surround.
A 2 tone finish, but easy on the brown width, with fade into the rich yellow body that will accentuate the grain.
No red at all.

Like this yellow, but maybe even narrower brown, no red, just some brown fade.

Sunburst-complete.jpeg

I spent a lot of time last night scrolling through images of various finishes on Ash, looking for inspiration (until it started making me a little crazy), and I came to the conclusion that I want this guitar to look "woody" and organic. So I'm probably not going to go with blue, or turquoise for this one, and if I do any kind of burst, it will probably be mostly light in the interior with a thin, dark perimeter.

I think I might go with a wooden (flame maple) pickguard too, after seeing this Suhr:

I am also still drawn to a simple Tru-Oil finish. This is what straight Tru-Oil (no grain filler, no tint) looks like on Ash:

[Partscaster]

Yeah, Mossman. Way to go.
Coincidentally started my 2 tone today. I've also been looking at 2 tones for a week in the evenings, almost ad nauseam.
I'll post todays pics in workbench thread.
I may have to sand back the lower bout hips on front. Mine are already smokey. The pic you posted of the Distinctive Guitar is inspiring.

[Mossman]

Yeah, Mossman. Way to go.
Coincidentally started my 2 tone today. I've also been looking at 2 tones for a week in the evenings, almost ad nauseam.
I'll post todays pics in workbench thread.
I may have to sand back the lower bout hips on front. Mine are already smokey. The pic you posted of the Distinctive Guitar is inspiring.

Is that your work in that photo you posted above? (I assumed that was an image you found online). Looks good!

[Partscaster]

Yeah, Mossman. Way to go.
Coincidentally started my 2 tone today. I've also been looking at 2 tones for a week in the evenings, almost ad nauseam.
I'll post todays pics in workbench thread.
I may have to sand back the lower bout hips on front. Mine are already smokey. The pic you posted of the Distinctive Guitar is inspiring.

Is that your work in that photo you posted above? (I assumed that was an image you found online). Looks good!

No, that was an online example of what I had in mind. Mine, today, looks like it will have a browner transition. I need to work it a bit more tonight before doing brown/black mix on edges tomorrow. I may need to do that a few days in a row to get dark edges. I'll find out. Its my first burst. My only other 2 finish attempts turned out to be salvaged art projects from solid color sprays that went awry.

[andrewsrea]

Man, you are on a building quest lately! Good for you!

My favorite baritone's have lipstick pickups. However, I have heard 3 P-90's and P-90-S-S on standard scale Strats, and they sound fantastic. On the P-90-S-S you get a growly bridge, but still get the 'quack' in the #2 & #4 switch positions.

I have a H-P-90-H in a swamp-ash Strat. The body was an early 80's Stew Mac swamp-ash, that they only sold for a few years and they cost $250 back then. It is light and resonant. Are the northern-ash really that heavy?

[Mossman]

Yeah, Mossman. Way to go.
Coincidentally started my 2 tone today. I've also been looking at 2 tones for a week in the evenings, almost ad nauseam.
I'll post todays pics in workbench thread.
I may have to sand back the lower bout hips on front. Mine are already smokey. The pic you posted of the Distinctive Guitar is inspiring.

Is that your work in that photo you posted above? (I assumed that was an image you found online). Looks good!

No, that was an online example of what I had in mind. Mine, today, looks like it will have a browner transition. I need to work it a bit more tonight before doing brown/black mix on edges tomorrow. I may need to do that a few days in a row to get dark edges. I'll find out. Its my first burst. My only other 2 finish attempts turned out to be salvaged art projects from solid color sprays that went awry.

Yeah, you might have to make several applications around the edges to get it dark enough (I checked out the pics in the other thread). If you're going to go nearly black around the perimeter, I would probably pull more brown into the middle on the upper half of the guitar, rather than sand it back in the lower half, so you'll have an adequate amount of brown fringing the black/dark brown outline..

[Mossman]

Man, you are on a building quest lately! Good for you!

Well, I wasn't even going to think about doing anything with the baritone project until I was finished with this one. It was only the looming shortage of Ash that motivated me to purchase the body. I'm thinking about buying a thinline Tele body too, while I still can.

My favorite baritone's have lipstick pickups. However, I have heard 3 P-90's and P-90-S-S on standard scale Strats, and they sound fantastic. On the P-90-S-S you get a growly bridge, but still get the 'quack' in the #2 & #4 switch positions.

That's cool... I've heard that a Strat with 3 p90s gives no quack at 2 and 4... I guess you need that Strat middle pickup. I'd like to build a Tele with a P90 in the neck position. I have a Tele body with a P90 rout, but I'll have to strip it and figure out how I want to finish it. It's basswood, and I consider that "paint-grade", but I can't get very excited about painting guitars lately.

I have a H-P-90-H in a swamp-ash Strat. The body was an early 80's Stew Mac swamp-ash, that they only sold for a few years and they cost $250 back then. It is light and resonant. Are the northern-ash really that heavy?

Oh yeah, Northern Ash is considerably heavier, denser and harder than Swamp Ash. The body I used for the Eclipse is Northern Ash, and it weighed over 6.5 lbs when I got it. I used a Forstner bit to hog out a lot of wood under the pickguard (giant PITA!), and the completed guitar weighs 9lbs, which is my maximum limit for guitar weight (basses can be heavier). I stick with the thinlines when it comes to Northern Ash anymore.

[Mossman]

Ok, I had a chance to experiment with some dyes on a piece of ash today... For the wine and blue bursts, I first stained it black, then sanded most of it off, leaving black dye in the grain.

Wine Burst:

Blue Burst:

Turquoise (I did not stain the grain black on this one. I thought it would be too much):

And I was going to do a yellow-to-orange burst on another project, but I was disappointed with the orange dye. There's not much contrast between the orange and the yellow. I suppose I could build up the orange in layers, but one thing that I learned from doing the finish on the Sun King is that you shouldn't build up too much pigment on the surface. It will just give you trouble when you go to do the clear-coat.

Bear in mind, these colors will pop more when there's some kind of finish on it. I'm leaning more towards the blue-burst, or the wine-burst, and I still haven't ruled out a natural, Tru-Oil finish either. I have all the ingredients to mix up some home-made Tru-Oil, but I need to get some measuring containers first.

[Mossman]

I can probably achieve something very close to this with the wine red dye:





Or close to this with the blue: