Incoming!!! (For Real This Time) - Ibanez AS93FM

[Mossman]

Just when you though this whole situation was settled, and I was in for a one-month wait for this guitar, the story takes another turn!

To refresh everyone's memory; after receiving a series of sub-par Epiphone 335s from AMS, I got them to agree to an even swap for the (more expensive) AS93FM, at a $110 discount. It was supposed to be in stock on March 1st, which meant I'd probably have it in a couple of weeks. But as March 1st approached, the date got pushed back to March 8th, then April 1st... Which was a drag, but what can you do about it?

Well, what I did was check the other retailer's websites periodically to see if any of them had gotten the guitar in stock. Kind of a pointless exercise, really... I'm not sure if was trying to comfort, or torment myself. It's a small comfort knowing that there's nothing you can do about it but to wait it out, and seeing "More coming soon!" on every other website made me feel a little better somehow. But I was aware that even if someone did get these in stock, there's no way I would get as good a deal as I was getting from AMS.

Yet still, I kept checking...

I mean, I wasn't obsessive about it or anything. Just every couple of days I'd take a look around during my break at work, or whenever I had some idle time on my hands. Then, on Wednesday, I was on GC for some reason... I think I was checking prices for something in their used section, and I decided to take a peek over in Ibanez land to see if there was any news... and don't you know it? They had the AS93FM in stock. I figured if GC has them, then MF must have them too, so I skipped over to their site, and sure enough, it said "In stock and ready to ship!".

It didn't really matter... The most I'd get MF to knock off the price is maybe fifty bucks, and GC never haggles, so I told myself it pays to be patient and shrugged it off.

Then this morning I opened my email to find a 20% off coupon from Musician's Friend! After doing some fuzzy math in my groggy noggin, I realized that would be an even bigger discount than I was getting from AMS. I tempered my excitement, though, because I was pretty sure that the coupon was only going to apply to a random selection of garbage, and stuff I don't need, but when I checked the website, the AS93FM was among the qualifying items! So when I got home from work, I cancelled my order with AMS, and then ordered the Ibanez from MF. The frosting on the cake was when I was checking out, I realized I had $10.42 in "rewards" money, so I threw that on there too, bringing the discount up to $140... and I'll probably have it by the end of next week.

[RiverDog]

Noice! I love it when stuff finally works out. Can't wait to peep it!

[Mossman]

Well, a strange thing happened today... I was checking my email during my lunch break to see if I got a shipping notification from MF (as we do), and instead, I got an email from their "authorization department" saying they needed me to call them. So I did... And the MF drone said: "Than you for calling Musician's Friend's authorization department. What can I do for you?" I said: "I don't know, you guys asked me to call you. I have no idea what this is about".

He said they needed me to authorize the shipment because my shipping address is different from my billing address. I'm glad they're looking out for fraud, but I've always used a different shipping address (and for over six years, it's been the same address), and no one has ever needed to verify it before. Maybe this is a new policy?

Anyway, he said that the guitar would ship out today and I should have it by Friday, but I still haven't received any notification. Not even a "label has been created" notice. I wouldn't go so far as to say I'm "worried" about it, or anything, but considering what a long, convoluted trip this has been, I can't help but think: "ok, what now??".

[nomadh]

Just when you though this whole situation was settled, and I was in for a one-month wait for this guitar, the story takes another turn!

To refresh everyone's memory; after receiving a series of sub-par Epiphone 335s from AMS, I got them to agree to an even swap for the (more expensive) AS93FM, at a $110 discount. It was supposed to be in stock on March 1st, which meant I'd probably have it in a couple of weeks. But as March 1st approached, the date got pushed back to March 8th, then April 1st... Which was a drag, but what can you do about it?

Well, what I did was check the other retailer's websites periodically to see if any of them had gotten the guitar in stock. Kind of a pointless exercise, really... I'm not sure if was trying to comfort, or torment myself. It's a small comfort knowing that there's nothing you can do about it but to wait it out, and seeing "More coming soon!" on every other website made me feel a little better somehow. But I was aware that even if someone did get these in stock, there's no way I would get as good a deal as I was getting from AMS.

Yet still, I kept checking...

I mean, I wasn't obsessive about it or anything. Just every couple of days I'd take a look around during my break at work, or whenever I had some idle time on my hands. Then, on Wednesday, I was on GC for some reason... I think I was checking prices for something in their used section, and I decided to take a peek over in Ibanez land to see if there was any news... and don't you know it? They had the AS93FM in stock. I figured if GC has them, then MF must have them too, so I skipped over to their site, and sure enough, it said "In stock and ready to ship!".

It didn't really matter... The most I'd get MF to knock off the price is maybe fifty bucks, and GC never haggles, so I told myself it pays to be patient and shrugged it off.

Then this morning I opened my email to find a 20% off coupon from Musician's Friend! After doing some fuzzy math in my groggy noggin, I realized that would be an even bigger discount than I was getting from AMS. I tempered my excitement, though, because I was pretty sure that the coupon was only going to apply to a random selection of garbage, and stuff I don't need, but when I checked the website, the AS93FM was among the qualifying items! So when I got home from work, I cancelled my order with AMS, and then ordered the Ibanez from MF. The frosting on the cake was when I was checking out, I realized I had $10.42 in "rewards" money, so I threw that on there too, bringing the discount up to $140... and I'll probably have it by the end of next week.

[Mossman]

Bloody oath, man.

[OMB]

Hope it works out cause yup these are strange times. I got a 20% off coupon but they do not have anything I want in stock.

[sabasgr68]

I guess I need to drink more coffee from today to next friday... This is one of the cases where "Pics or it didn´t happen" is a must!

[Mossman]

Hope it works out cause yup these are strange times. I got a 20% off coupon but they do not have anything I want in stock.

I guess I need to drink more coffee from today to next friday... This is one of the cases where "Pics or it didn´t happen" is a must!

Well, originally, I was told it would ship out yesterday and I'd have it by Friday, but I didn't get any notification until late last night. It said the label had been created and it should arrive on Monday the 15th... then this morning, it changed to Thursday the 11th.

UPS is still not in possession of the package.

Here's some pics for you, Sabas :

[toomanycats]

Here's a little Ibanez AS93VLS action to tide everyone over until @Mossman's new guitar arrives. The newest models have ebony fretboards and a tort pickguard, whereas mine is an older model and has a rosewood fretboard and black pickguard. Superb guitar.

[OMB]

Looks similar to my AS83 but mine had the ACH humbies not the Super 58's. Actually come to think of it I was never sure what pickups were in this.

[Mossman]

Here's little Ibanez AS93VLS action to tide everyone over until @Mossman's new guitar arrives. The newest models have ebony fretboards and a tort pickguard, whereas mine is an older model and has a rosewood fretboard and black pickguard. Superb guitar.

fullsizeoutput_954.jpeg

fullsizeoutput_7ed.jpeg

It would seem that those are the only differences between that and the AS93FM (and the finish on yours looks a little darker). But some (probably earlier versions) had ACH pickups, while other spec lists indicate Super 58s.

[toomanycats]

Here's little Ibanez AS93VLS action to tide everyone over until @Mossman's new guitar arrives. The newest models have ebony fretboards and a tort pickguard, whereas mine is an older model and has a rosewood fretboard and black pickguard. Superb guitar.

fullsizeoutput_954.jpeg

fullsizeoutput_7ed.jpeg

It would seem that those are the only differences between that and the AS93FM (and the finish on yours looks a little darker). But some (probably earlier versions) had ACH pickups, while other spec lists indicate Super 58s.

I did a lot of research about what exactly the pickups are in my AS93 when I first acquired it. I've never opened them up because they sound good enough that I've haven't wanted to mess with them. For what its worth, the part number on my pups indicate that they should be A3.

There's and interesting discussion here about the various incarnations of the Super 58s:

https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/guitar- ... ickup.html

For me the take home from that thread is this info below that came directly from Ibanez, with the caveat that it was current only as of 2015. As we know, a lot can change in six years.

Super 58 Custom made in CHINA Alnico 3
3PU1H58BG
3PU1H58NG

Super 58 made in KOREA Alnico 5
3PU1C158G1
3PU1C158G2

Super 58 made in JAPAN Alnico 5
3PU1J158G1
3PU1J158G2

Super 58 Silent made in JAPAN Alnico 5
3PU1J15811
3PU1J15812

ACH1/2 made in CHINA Ceramic
3PU1HAC1G
3PU1HAC2G

[Mossman]

I did a lot of research about what exactly the pickups are in my AS93 when I first acquired it. I've never opened them up because they sound good enough that I've haven't wanted to mess with them. For what its worth, the part number on my pups indicate that they should be A3.

There's and interesting discussion here about the various incarnations of the Super 58s:

https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/guitar- ... ickup.html

For me the take home from that thread is this info below that came directly from Ibanez, with the caveat that it was current only as of of 2015. As we know, a lot can change in six years.

Super 58 Custom made in CHINA Alnico 3
3PU1H58BG
3PU1H58NG

Super 58 made in KOREA Alnico 5
3PU1C158G1
3PU1C158G2

Super 58 made in JAPAN Alnico 5
3PU1J158G1
3PU1J158G2

Super 58 Silent made in JAPAN Alnico 5
3PU1J15811
3PU1J15812

ACH1/2 made in CHINA Ceramic
3PU1HAC1G
3PU1HAC2G

So are your pickups Super 58s, or Super 58 Customs? That list doesn't indicate Super 58s with A3 magnets, but I had read that at one time, they did have A3s, and the Super 58 Customs had ceramic magnets.

I never found out for sure what the magnets in the Super 58s that I'm going to get are, but I'm assuming they'll be A5s. I guess I can check the part numbers against that list when I get the guitar.... Thanks for posting that. I went hunting for some info about these pickups a few weeks ago (talked about it some here: viewtopic.php?f=67&t=1700&start=25), and kind of ran into a dead end. Ibanez isn't very forthcoming with detailed specs (which seems to be by design), and there was a lot of speculation on the forums I came across... and none of those discussions were very recent. I'd also like to know what the center block is made of, and other details about the construction, but I wasn't able to find the answers to those questions, either.

[BatUtilityBelt]

I have an Ibanez AM93L-AYS-12-02 with Super 58 pickups of unknown country of origin, but the serial number dater puts it at the 2299th guitar made in June, 2015 in China. They're very warm, and not hot. If I had to guess, they seem more likely to be A3.

[Mossman]

Well I knew it was too good to be true. After no updates to UPS tracking since it left MF's Kansas City warehouse (UPS tracking has become almost as bad as USPS), it finally showed that the package was in Salt Lake City late yesterday afternoon. I knew if it wasn't in California by that time, there was no way I was going to get it today, yet the tracking on MF's website still said it would be here on the 11th... Then later on last night the date was pushed back to Friday...

One... more... day...

[toomanycats]

I did a lot of research about what exactly the pickups are in my AS93 when I first acquired it. I've never opened them up because they sound good enough that I've haven't wanted to mess with them. For what its worth, the part number on my pups indicate that they should be A3.

There's and interesting discussion here about the various incarnations of the Super 58s:

https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/guitar- ... ickup.html

For me the take home from that thread is this info below that came directly from Ibanez, with the caveat that it was current only as of of 2015. As we know, a lot can change in six years.

Super 58 Custom made in CHINA Alnico 3
3PU1H58BG
3PU1H58NG

Super 58 made in KOREA Alnico 5
3PU1C158G1
3PU1C158G2

Super 58 made in JAPAN Alnico 5
3PU1J158G1
3PU1J158G2

Super 58 Silent made in JAPAN Alnico 5
3PU1J15811
3PU1J15812

ACH1/2 made in CHINA Ceramic
3PU1HAC1G
3PU1HAC2G

So are your pickups Super 58s, or Super 58 Customs? That list doesn't indicate Super 58s with A3 magnets, but I had read that at one time, they did have A3s, and the Super 58 Customs had ceramic magnets.

I never found out for sure what the magnets in the Super 58s that I'm going to get are, but I'm assuming they'll be A5s. I guess I can check the part numbers against that list when I get the guitar.... Thanks for posting that. I went hunting for some info about these pickups a few weeks ago (talked about it some here: viewtopic.php?f=67&t=1700&start=25), and kind of ran into a dead end. Ibanez isn't very forthcoming with detailed specs (which seems to be by design), and there was a lot of speculation on the forums I came across... and none of those discussions were very recent. I'd also like to know what the center block is made of, and other details about the construction, but I wasn't able to find the answers to those questions, either.

My bridge pup says this on the bottom:

PTP6062 3PUS58B1-GDG

They're the exact same as this set listed for sale on Reverb. The seller refers to them as "Super 58 Custom," and emphasizes that they should not be confused with the highly regarded MIJ Super 58s. Regarding why the part number is different on this Reverb listed set from the Super 58 Custom China ones shown in the list above, I can only speculate that maybe it's because the guitar they came from, like mine, was made in Indonesia. Just guessing here though.

https://reverb.com/ca/item/21966008-iba ... -lead-2018

[SamIV]

Just finished comparing my Ibanez Artist with the super 58’s through my AC 15 with a JHS Morning Glory to what is in my PRS SE Mark Tremonti Custom. I think they are 245 pickups, and I prefer the Ibanez for that’s worth. Just sound more open, with better string definition. They do sound good. Cleaner bass and better high end. Kinda spoke not as highly of them in a previous post with you. I stand corrected.

[Razzle]

You’ll get it soon enough, I know how it is when you’re Jonesing for something you bought. You keep checking the shipping status, I do!!

So what are the necks like on those?

[Mossman]

My bridge pup says this on the bottom:

PTP6062 3PUS58B1-GDG

They're the exact same as this set listed for sale on Reverb. The seller refers to them as "Super 58 Custom," and emphasizes that they should not be confused with the highly regarded MIJ Super 58s. Regarding why the part number is different on this Reverb listed set from the Super 58 Custom China ones shown in the list above, I can only speculate that maybe it's because the guitar they came from, like mine, was made in Indonesia. Just guessing here though.

https://reverb.com/ca/item/21966008-iba ... -lead-2018

Yes, I think that seller is mistaken. Both the Ibanez wiki and official website list Super 58s as the pickups in both the AS153 and AS93. His guitar could have been made in China too... Ibanez started moving production of Artcore guitars to Indonesia starting in 2016, but they still made the AS93 and AS153 in China until mid 2018. He probably assumed that since the guitar's made in China (or at least not made in Japan), then the pickups must be Chinese.. And since the Super 58 Customs were made in China, Bob's yer uncle.

All the information I've been able to find out about these pickups is a few years old, so I did a little more digging, and I don't think they even make Super 58 Customs anymore. Currently on the Ibanez website, all guitars from the AS93 up to the AS200 are listed as having Super 58s. The AS73 has "Elite Classics", which are ceramic, and the AS53 has "Infinity" pickups (also ceramic). Likewise for the AM, AF and AG series guitars... Lower-end models get Infinities and Elites, and higher-end guitars get Super 58s. Not a mention of Super 58 Customs on the entire site... Or at least among the hollow/semi-hollow guitars.

My guess is; after they starting making Super 58 Customs with A3 magnets instead of ceramic ones, they probably just dropped the "Custom" from the name after a while and started calling them "Super 58s", keeping the country of manufacture on the down-low. From what I've read, the Korean Super 58s had A5 magnets, so the Customs with A3s were closer to the originals anyway, and they stopped making guitars in Korea a long time ago. I doubt they're still making pickups there.

As far as I'm concerned, if they're designed the same, and constructed the same, then they are the same. I care more about whether they sound good than I do about bragging rights... But I can't resist a mystery.

[Mossman]

You’ll get it soon enough, I know how it is when you’re Jonesing for something you bought. You keep checking the shipping status, I do!!

So what are the necks like on those?

Heheh... Yeah, I just like to watch its progress across the country. Feels more engaging.

Bear in mind that this trip started for me back in November, and I've been thwarted at every turn since then, so it was a little vexing to have it pushed back one more day. But if MF didn't get a shipment of these guitars in (and I never got that coupon) I'd still be waiting, so I'm not that upset over it.

I have no idea what the neck is like, except that the specs say it's 21mm thick at the nut, and 23mm at the 9th fret. That sounds reasonable to me. I don't really get hung up on neck profiles... As long as it's not a big fat 50's-style baseball bat, I'm not too particular.

[Mossman]

Super... Now the delivery date has been pushed back to Monday, which was the original ETA to start off with.

[Mossman]

Well, this has been a long, strange trip to acquire a semi-hollow guitar... This was supposed to be a birthday/Christmas gift to myself! I should have listened to my Sweetwater rep when he suggested pre-ordering the 335 back in November... Things might have turned out quite differently.

Oh well, that's all water under the bridge now... (or is that over the bridge?). I actually received the guitar on Monday, but I've been too busy to post about it (with photographic proof, and everything) until now. I'm sure you've all been just dying with anticipation!

Of course, the color isn't quite right in these photos. The finish actually a bit darker, and more brown around the edges than orange. It actually has a very classy, premium look that doesn't really come through in the pics, but these photos don't look bad... I ordered some light bulbs that replicate natural sunlight from Amazon, so I hope they help in getting more accurate color reproduction for guitar photos.

I really like the headstock design on Ibanez arch-tops. And I like that graphic a lot better than the stupid lightning bolt thing that was on the headstock of the first Artcore I bought back in 2003. Check out that truss rod cover too... It flips down to give you access without having remove the cover. One of the things I hate about 3x3 headstocks is having to deal with removing and replacing the TRC every time I need to adjust the truss rod.

The tuners look like generic, Asian tuners, but they feel really smooth and accurate. They seem better than the tuners on the Epiphone. Those felt a little course, and some of them were stiff.

And even though the headstock is at a sane, 14° angle, it's got a volute!

And, it's got a 3-piece neck of Maple and Nyatoh. I don't know much about the latter. Some people say it's like Mahogany, but others say it's its own thing, and really only similar in color.

I couldn't find out anything about the tone, though.... I guess it sounds good. Kind of airier than mahogany, with just a slight hint of tannin, and a fruity bouquet.

But seriously... A 3-piece neck is a significant step up from the Epi in my book. The profile is satisfyingly round and full. It's not a baseball bat, but it's a little chunkier than the 335.

One frustrating thing about Ibanez is that it's hard to get any detailed specs about their guitars... Or as detailed as I'd like, anyway. Apart from the pickups, I was also curious about what kind of wood, and how many plys the body, back and sides were made of. The Ibanez website only says "Flame Maple" in the specs. It doesn't say "laminated" or "layered" like other manufacturers, and there's no way it could be a solid top and back at this price-point, so I guess that will remain a mystery. But it's got a pretty thick top. I haven't located my calipers to measure it, or anything, but I feel like it's thicker than the 335 was, and it's thicker than the top on my Casino. Overall, it feels more solidly built than the 335.

I was also curious about the center block, too. Ibanez doesn't even mention a center block in the specs. I assumed it would be Maple, and I was right... But that interior laminate looks like Nyatoh to me (not flame Maple).

I looked this thing over with a microscope, and I could not find even the slightest finish/paint flaw, and with the 4-ply binding (b/w/b/w), there is absolutely no margin for error. I don't know if they tape the binding before painting like Epiphone, or if they scrape it after painting, but this work is pretty clean and tight! Not a rough line, gap, or over-spray anywhere on the guitar.

The only minor flaws I could find were a small break in the binding on the headstock, which doesn't really doesn't bother me at all. It's pretty common, and you can't even see it if you're more than 3 inches away...

...and the inlays aren't perfectly straight. It's not terrible, but I've got a thing about stuff being straight and centered, and I'm trying not to let it bother me.

I'm also tired of returning guitars.

Otherwise, this guitar is awesome! The build quality and finish work are top-notch, and it really feels like a premium level guitar. I wouldn't go so far as to say it blows the Epiphone out of the water... apart from the finish issues, there was nothing inherently wrong with the 335, but the Ibanez is a noticeable step up in build quality, cosmetics and attention to detail.

Now, about the pickups... I'm pretty much 100% sure that they have A3 magnets, in keeping with the original Super 58 design. From the first chord, it was unmistakable, and I'm pretty sure I'm gonna swap these pickups out. I'm not saying they sound bad. They sound great. It's just not the sound I'm looking for from a semi-hollow guitar. I'm wanting something that sounds a little rounder and sweeter, like A2s. Actually, I'm surprised that jazz cats like George Benson and John Scholfield dig the sound of A3s. I've always thought A3s sounded a little raw and unrefined, and downright raunchy at high volume. These pickups have great note separation and definition, and have a lot of clarity (one of my biggest complaints about humbuckers is that they can sound kind of "blurry"), but they're weak in the low end and sound rather... strident... and maybe just a little brash. Of course, I adjusted EQ and pickup heights, and got them sounding really good before making a final judgement, and they do sound good, but I have a set of ProBuckers that I can't get out of my head.

[Mossman]

BTW, could somebody tell me how to change the title of a thread here?

[ID10t]

Good report and good news Ed. Glad it finally made it and it looks good. I completely forgot about the TRC, I have 3 Ibanez's so far and I guess I take it for granted, but I like the feature.
I just put 11's on the 73 yesterday and I have found that I have to pay attention with the Quick change tailpiece and making sure that the wrap end on the string points down or I get bit by it. Probably poor playing technique.
That is a nice looking guitar and I hope you enjoy it. I'm thinking of getting another Artcore and putting in Phat Cats, make it kinda Casino like, I don't know.

[BatUtilityBelt]

Congratulations, that is beautiful. I love my Ibbys,