Leaving the Nest

[Milkman]

I've never owned a Windows machine in my life. I've had an Atari 520ST an Atari 1040ST and a slew of Apple computers.

But... it's time to take a walk on the other side. I've been using Windows 10 at work for quite a while now and, I gotta say... it's pretty good and comfy for me. I'm currently using a mid-2011 Mac Mini (upgraded to 16GB RAM, external FireWire 800 and Thunderbolt drives) and it's getting a little long in the tooth to say the least. On top of that, Apple's announcement that they will move to their own, in-house, ARM processors over the next few years means that any Mac I buy now will almost certainly be orphaned by 2025 (or 2024) anyway.

I don't really use the "Apple ecosystem" as it's meant to be used, despite having an iPad and a (work issued) iPhone, so none of that is holding me firm. I use Apple Music, but have considered switching to Spotify several times anyway (for various reasons). I don't really do anything on a Mac that is only possible on a Mac. In fact, I pretty much make music, browse the web, and occasionally bang together a very basic video or two and that's about it... no games, no 3D rendering, no 4K video production.

It was Reaper that really got this idea sparked in my head. I was using Garageband, but it's pretty limited compared to Reaper, and at $60 Reaper is hardly more expensive than the "free" Garageband. I've fully migrated to Reaper now.

Anyway, as I started looking at the offerings in the Mac Mini 2020 lineup, I started comparing the PC I could build for equivalent money and my tinker-brain started turning. I've never "built" a PC before.... hmmmm.

So, here's what I'm banging together keeping in mind my computer usage needs, quality, stability, upgradeability (got a 12 year old daughter who may be itching for some games in a year or two), and price:

• i5 10400 processor (don't need or want overclocking, need built in GPU

• Asus Prime Z490-a motherboard (overkill maybe, but new 1200 socket for future processor upgrade, USB C and Thunderbolt 3)

• WD Black 500GB NVMe for System/Applications, WD Black 1TB NVMe for files (might add something for longer term storage later)

• 16GB RAM

• NZXT H510 case

• Other boring stuff like power supply, CPU cooler, fans, etc.

So far, I've really had a good time nerding out learning all about this stuff and I'm going to have a good time with my girls putting it all together... my youngest is VERY interested in the process.

[Tonray's Ghost]

Thank God.. After reading the title I was afraid you were going over to Momo board agf. Welcome to PC heaven

[golem]

Building a PC does sound like fun to me.Yesterday my new gig gave me a Windows laptop. It seems slower than any laptop I've had in years. This doesn't bode well as a software developer. Not sure if it's because of things they do to improve security or if Windows machines like this are always this slow.

[mickey]

Building a PC does sound like fun to me.Yesterday my new gig gave me a Windows laptop. It seems slower than any laptop I've had in years. This doesn't bode well as a software developer. Not sure if it's because of things they do to improve security or if Windows machines like this are always this slow.

All the security stuff you have to use with Windoze is (IMHO) the reason Windoze machines are so slow.
I can run VirtualBox under Linux & run Win10 in VirtualBox & everything runs a lot faster than on a native Windoze system with all the essential security crapola.

[sabasgr68]

[mention]Milkman[/mention] building a PC is great! Be sure to post the final building once you have it set up.

[sabasgr68]

Building a PC does sound like fun to me.Yesterday my new gig gave me a Windows laptop. It seems slower than any laptop I've had in years. This doesn't bode well as a software developer. Not sure if it's because of things they do to improve security or if Windows machines like this are always this slow.

All the security stuff you have to use with Windoze is (IMHO) the reason Windoze machines are so slow.
I can run VirtualBox under Linux & run Win10 in VirtualBox & everything runs a lot faster than on a native Windoze system with all the essential security crapola.

Who said guitar forums weren´t interesting places? I´ve learned a lot about computer things here.

Never heard of that VirtualBox. Looks like you know your thing.

[fullonshred]

Building a PC does sound like fun to me.Yesterday my new gig gave me a Windows laptop. It seems slower than any laptop I've had in years. This doesn't bode well as a software developer. Not sure if it's because of things they do to improve security or if Windows machines like this are always this slow.

Wonder what the CPU, Memory and Graphics are in your particular unit? I'm thinking maybe it's not specc'd right for what you are trying to do? I hope it at least uses an SSD as the system drive? PCIe x 4 NVME Drive would be even better.

Additionally, if it is a previously used lappy it probably needs some de-crapifying to help matters. Also, try to find the Power Settings and set everything to max. Windows by default enables a bunch of useless, performance sapping power "saving" settings.

[mention]Milkman[/mention] Curious why you didn't go with AMD? I haven't checked lately, but usually their integrated graphics are well ahead of Intel's offerings. Also more bang for the buck too. I am not an AMD fanboy, I own Intel and AMD units.

[golem]

[mention]fullonshred[/mention] It has 32GB of RAM and an I9 processor. Hardware wise, it's much more powerful than any Macbook I've owned. Experience wise, it's slow. It crawled to a snail's pace early this morning with just Outlook, a browser, and their VPN.

It's beyond me how this thing is slow with it's specs. If they let me install Linux on this I'd probably be happy. At some point, I'll find a way to request a MacBook.

edit: spelling.

[fullonshred]

@fullonshred It has 32GB of RAM and an I9 processor. Hardware wise, it's much more powerful than any Macbook I've owned. Experience wise, it's slow. It crawled to a snail's pace early this morning with just Outlook, a browser, and their VPN.

It's beyond me how this thing is slow with it's specs. If they let me install Linux on this I'd probably be happy. At some point, I'll find a way to request a MacBook.

edit: spelling.

Something is definitely amiss. That thing should be screaming even with windows 10. VPNs can kill internet speeds at times but shouldn't kill other program performance.

Those are better specs than both my main desktops, and they run like beasts. Top desktop is Ryzen 2700X 8 core, 32 GB of DDR4 at 3200mhz, 250gb NVME PCIe x 4 M.2 SSD with RX5700 (it runs at 5700xt speeds). The darn thing flies no matter how much I have open.

[Milkman]

[mention]fullonshred[/mention] I went back and forth so many times, I don't even know how I settled... the only real AMD option I had was a 3400G - the i5 10400 seemed like a better option as far as future upgrades are concerned. I'm drawing on at least 3 weeks of experience here.... so, I must have made the right choice, right?

Edited to add: Also, graphics are of little importance to me. I don't play ANY games, and I do very little video work at all.

I value stability far more than maximizing speeds via overclocking (oh, and I don't have a clue how to do it), so that wasn't a consideration. I definitely have no brand loyalty - not even to the Honda Motor Company Motorcycle Division, and that's saying something, 'cuz I'm a huge fan - I just buy what I think will meet my needs.

[fullonshred]

@fullonshred I went back and forth so many times, I don't even know how I settled... the only real AMD option I had was a 3400G - the i5 10400 seemed like a better option as far as future upgrades are concerned. I'm drawing on at least 3 weeks of experience here.... so, I must have made the right choice, right?

Edited to add: Also, graphics are of little importance to me. I don't play ANY games, and I do very little video work at all.

I value stability far more than maximizing speeds via overclocking (oh, and I don't have a clue how to do it), so that wasn't a consideration. I definitely have no brand loyalty - not even to the Honda Motor Company Motorcycle Division, and that's saying something, 'cuz I'm a huge fan - I just buy what I think will meet my needs.

Sounds like you made the right choice to me. Thanks for indulging my curiosity.

FWIW I have a 2200g powered Lenovo that I use solely for business. Very stable and snappy for simple business tasks. Even with only 8gb of DDR4 it is a decent little machine, and those processors are dirt cheap. But I suspect the 3400g is no match for an i5 10 series.

EDIT: Googled it. Intel is a good bit stronger than the 3400g, just as I thought.

If you post a build thread I will be sure to follow.

[Milkman]

Well, [mention]fullonshred[/mention] , the processor, 512GB SSD and RAM are on the board already, but I can snap some photos from here forward and post.

[Milkman]

Here’s the board as I started today:

Here we are with the CPU cooler attached:

Here’s the back side in the case during wiring:

Front side with powered fans and LEDs!

BIOS success!

[Milkman]

And we have Windows!

Here’s the box all buttoned up, still needing a permanent home: