What is the SX of firearms?

[brentona]

Let me amend your statement to: LEGAL carry isn't an option. I'll never be one to advise someone to do something illegally. However, I do like the saying "Better to be judged by 12 instead of carried by 6."

Right. I actually lived that Mantra while I was in Maryland. It’s one of my favorite phrases. Now that I live in NC, a free state, I can actually carry out my rights.


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NC a free state may be the funniest thing I've heard this year. Free-er than Californistan though, as far as the public can see. But that's like describing the tip of an iceberg...90% of it is invisible below the water.

Compare it to Maryland


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[BrianSkeezer]

I've always said that Maryland was California East, but I think that has been taken over by New York now. I've lived in Maryland for most of my life, and can't wait to retire and leave. 10 more years!!!

[brentona]

I've always said that Maryland was California East, but I think that has been taken over by New York now. I've lived in Maryland for most of my life, and can't wait to retire and leave. 10 more years!!!

You can do it! At least it’s not Jersey and you can have hollows. For now


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[Raindog]

Right. I actually lived that Mantra while I was in Maryland. It’s one of my favorite phrases. Now that I live in NC, a free state, I can actually carry out my rights.

NC a free state may be the funniest thing I've heard this year. Free-er than Californistan though, as far as the public can see. But that's like describing the tip of an iceberg...90% of it is invisible below the water.

I have to agree with [mention]PsychoCid[/mention] here. I was born and raised in NC and frequently travel back there. It wasn't that long ago that NC "won" the right to carry. 1995, I believe. And it wasn't until 2011 that permit holders in other states could legally carry in NC.

https://www.gunstocarry.com/ccw-reciprocity-map/

1986:


2017:

[Inforobinhood]

Might wanna look into the Smit and Wesson Sdve series. Affordable but NOT cheap quality. They were sued by Glock because of the similarities. I own the .40 cal and its a beast. Very reliable after more than 1500 rounds, no jams or misfires. There is no manual safety but it does have a safety trigger which has a long pull. Long but not ridiculous.

They come in .40 or 9mm at the same price. Also, they come with CA compliant magazines. If the trigger pull is too long for your taste there are many awesome spring kits that can be had to HALF the resistance.

Overall, it is an accurate, sturdy, and powerful addition at an affordable price tag. Academy has them sometimes at 279.99!

[jhull54]

Any Smith and Wesson model 19 over 4". There's a reason that it was carried for years by military personal and law enforcement, before the semi-auto became king. It is simple, always fires, dirty or clean, and works with the pull of a trigger. You can practice with .38s and carry .357 for protection. No safety. Perfect for the non-proficient gun owner. Can be had for under $300.

This is what I have for bedside in .38 Special.

Foolproof and rock solid.

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[nomadh]

First let me start with this -

You are going to trust your LIFE to this item. There isn't room for going in a cheap direction. You need something that can be fired with every trigger pull and hit its intended target. I know that you mentioned Hi-Point C9. A lot of times you have better accuracy and reliability by throwing that at the target, not even mentioning its weight which is also a big thing to consider. Capacity is a consideration but it is not a deal breaker. Most confrontations are settled in as little as 3 shots.
On the subject of "no revolver under 2' barrel" . Any gun can be shot well with practice. I pocket carry an 1 7/8" 5- shot .38 Smith religiously. I shoot the firearm very well under duress in training situations, and constantly clover at controlled range scenarios. Practice is everything with a pistol, you don't shoot often and dominate your muscle memory, you will miss.

Lastly my question is this, what is your worst case scenario? What is the intended use of this weapon? Living in CA does not offer you the ability to carry, so why bother with a pistol? They are inherently much more difficult to shoot for a variety of reasons when compared to a long gun. If this is 100% home defense, and the intended users are not regular trigger pullers, this is my recommendation.

20 gauge pump shotgun. They just work. 20 gauge is a very mild loading and there are even reduced recoil loads for it. Shotguns approach things from a point, not so much aim, train of thought. The weapon DOES need to be pointed at the target, but precision is a lesser importance being that you are not banking on a single projectile to hit its intended target. Best thing is the cost of these simple, efficient tools. I would highly recommend picking up an older Remington 870 (80's era is possible). First it is going to be dirt cheap. Second, it is made of quality steel where the newer Freedom Group iterations, though still a very viable tool, are made a little more cost efficient to the manufacturer.

One last questions. What is the domicile? Single family? Condo, apartment? That will greatly affect your weapon choice and ammunition choice. Let me know on this matter and I can better recommend from that.

I shoot guns, a lot. I know guns very well. I'm not trying to be a know it all nose in the air, but in terms of firearms, I am well read. Hope this helps!

Thanks for the detail. I had a chance getting an old police 870 for about $90. The only wear was where the bracket in the car rubbed it. Probably around 1990. I'm betting I can't even get those in ca now.. I should get something like that for me. My brother lives in a single fam home. You may be very right about a shotgun for him too. I doubt he'll practice much.

[nomadh]

Taurus makes reasonably priced weapons in the class you are seeking. Perhaps the SX of guns as you put it. My Slim 9MM has proven very dependable even with cheap reloads it does not misfire. I have others that are fine with premium loads but sometimes fail to process reloads. It's ok to fail on the range but only use premium ammo when carrying a weapon for self-defense. Consider not cutting cost corners on a carry weapon.

OP is in California. Carry isn’t an option.


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Actually I'm hearing that if you follow all the steps and can come up w a decent case (such as being too old to fight or run typically) that can get you a ccw even in San Diego. Now getting out of court alive if you use it, that's a different prob.

[brentona]

First let me start with this -

You are going to trust your LIFE to this item. There isn't room for going in a cheap direction. You need something that can be fired with every trigger pull and hit its intended target. I know that you mentioned Hi-Point C9. A lot of times you have better accuracy and reliability by throwing that at the target, not even mentioning its weight which is also a big thing to consider. Capacity is a consideration but it is not a deal breaker. Most confrontations are settled in as little as 3 shots.
On the subject of "no revolver under 2' barrel" . Any gun can be shot well with practice. I pocket carry an 1 7/8" 5- shot .38 Smith religiously. I shoot the firearm very well under duress in training situations, and constantly clover at controlled range scenarios. Practice is everything with a pistol, you don't shoot often and dominate your muscle memory, you will miss.

Lastly my question is this, what is your worst case scenario? What is the intended use of this weapon? Living in CA does not offer you the ability to carry, so why bother with a pistol? They are inherently much more difficult to shoot for a variety of reasons when compared to a long gun. If this is 100% home defense, and the intended users are not regular trigger pullers, this is my recommendation.

20 gauge pump shotgun. They just work. 20 gauge is a very mild loading and there are even reduced recoil loads for it. Shotguns approach things from a point, not so much aim, train of thought. The weapon DOES need to be pointed at the target, but precision is a lesser importance being that you are not banking on a single projectile to hit its intended target. Best thing is the cost of these simple, efficient tools. I would highly recommend picking up an older Remington 870 (80's era is possible). First it is going to be dirt cheap. Second, it is made of quality steel where the newer Freedom Group iterations, though still a very viable tool, are made a little more cost efficient to the manufacturer.

One last questions. What is the domicile? Single family? Condo, apartment? That will greatly affect your weapon choice and ammunition choice. Let me know on this matter and I can better recommend from that.

I shoot guns, a lot. I know guns very well. I'm not trying to be a know it all nose in the air, but in terms of firearms, I am well read. Hope this helps!

Thanks for the detail. I had a chance getting an old police 870 for about $90. The only wear was where the bracket in the car rubbed it. Probably around 1990. I'm betting I can't even get those in ca now.. I should get something like that for me. My brother lives in a single fam home. You may be very right about a shotgun for him too. I doubt he'll practice much.

Single family opens up ammo selection quite a bit. Bear in mind that if he DOES go this direction, which really would be best with the least amount of practice, walls penetrate easily and even brick exteriors won’t stop buck shot every time. Know your fire paths and what lies beyond them IE sheltered family members (GUITARS!?).
Encourage the shotgun in 20 gauge, and encourage some YouTube videos on shot selection and their penetrations on common house construction. I’d hate to get shot with a larger birdshot / game shot.

You’re very welcome for the info! Family and personal protection are a big deal to me and have been for a while. No matter how justified you are likely getting arrested and later at best acquitted. But. Your family is alive. That’s the game. Any further questions do not hesitate to reach out. Also let us know where he lands!!


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[MattS]

Thanks for the question, [mention]nomadh[/mention] and for all the great information and advice from those who added their thoughts! Does anyone else have more to add? I'm looking for something to add to my tiny "arsenal" of a couple of .22 rifles and a Colt .32acp I inherited but have never fired. I've been trying to read and research to become a somewhat educated consumer. I've tried going to local gun shops, but being in California and with all the unrest going on, there isn't much available to phsyically handle a try to get a feel for. Maybe I need to go to a range and try a few different models to get a better idea? Trying to decide between a 9mm and a .45. I also like [mention]brentona[/mention]'s advice to look for a 20 gauge shotgun. Not really looking to CCW, but may be a possibility?

Matt

[uwmcscott]

If you have the ability to go try some out Matt, that's my recommendation. I bought a few based on recommendations of others, and while they are nice, it really took me some time to find sometihng that fits my hand and style - not really much different than picking a guitar in that sense.

One thing to also be aware of is that ammunition prices and availability have gone completely over the edge - just in the last couple of weeks. The perferct storm of every possible thing that coudl fuel the market have all hit at once. 9mm is usually your best bet for all around cost/availability/overall performance but even that is selling for double what it normally does right now, if you can even find it.

Depending on your situation, sometimes the best firearm is one you already have. While not ideal for every situation, a 22lr rifle is a very versatile. If the 32 you inherited is functional ( ask a gunsmith to check it over ) that might be a good place to start too. It's not as common of a caliber so you might be able to find ammo too.

[MattS]

Thanks for the great advice, Scott!

Matt

[uwmcscott]

Thanks for the great advice, Scott!

Matt

No worries, best of luck in your search. I actually stopped at one of our local sporting goods shops last night to get some air gun pellets and while the ammo shelves were mostly bare, they did indeed have some .32 ammo still out.

[nomadh]

I swung by the local turners just to see whats available and they had a tent ouside taking names and a line. Had a 1-2 hr wait. I asked if there was a better time he said that was the best time he'd seen in weeks. Sometimes 4 hours. He said get there before opens but then your waiting for the store to open so about the same but better chance of stock. If you didnt get your guns in order it may be getting too late.

[uwmcscott]

I swung by the local turners just to see whats available and they had a tent ouside taking names and a line. Had a 1-2 hr wait. I asked if there was a better time he said that was the best time he'd seen in weeks. Sometimes 4 hours. He said get there before opens but then your waiting for the store to open so about the same but better chance of stock. If you didnt get your guns in order it may be getting too late.

Yes, with the elections on the horizon, Covid and all of the related issues, general social unrest, it’s gonna be slim pickings for a while. I suspect all the .22LR will be gone soon too, that’s about all anyone actually has left in stock.

[nomadh]

I've been buying up 22 since it became available last time it dried up. I still dont own a 22 gun

[mozz]

Few years back i was buying the 22 bricks (400-500-555?) for about $20 when i could find them. Saw a guy today selling ammo, actually a bunch of them selling ammo, at the flea market, he had 22 bricks marked at $42.
If you know anything about reloading there was a guy selling rcbs rockchuckers, for $40, that's a $200 press, he had a bunch, scales, dies, shell holders etc. Was a lot of bargains there but i need more reloading stuff like i need more guitars.

Back in the 80's i could reload 38's 500/1000 at a time cheaper than i could buy 22's. Using scraped lead of course and not counting my labor.

[stacks]

I swung by the local turners just to see whats available and they had a tent ouside taking names and a line. Had a 1-2 hr wait. I asked if there was a better time he said that was the best time he'd seen in weeks. Sometimes 4 hours. He said get there before opens but then your waiting for the store to open so about the same but better chance of stock. If you didnt get your guns in order it may be getting too late.

Yes, with the elections on the horizon, Covid and all of the related issues, general social unrest, it’s gonna be slim pickings for a while. I suspect all the .22LR will be gone soon too, that’s about all anyone actually has left in stock.

We don't seem to have any ammo stock issues here, as well as firearms.

[uwmcscott]

We don't seem to have any ammo stock issues here, as well as firearms.

Plenty of firearms on the shelves around here but ammunition shelves are almost completely bare. Just about every online dealer seems to be completely out of every common caliber as well - and when they do have some the prices are more than double normal. I think the cheapest i've seen 9mm on ammoseek is 0ver $.40 per round. Even the places that were rationing it 1-2 boxes per customer are completly sold out of everything but .22 and shotgun target loads and a handful of oddball rifle calibers.

[Jaymo]

Flame thrower. When you care enough to send the very best.
Gasoline and diesel are available even when ammo isn't.

[Jaymo]

Few years back i was buying the 22 bricks (400-500-555?) for about $20 when i could find them. Saw a guy today selling ammo, actually a bunch of them selling ammo, at the flea market, he had 22 bricks marked at $42.
If you know anything about reloading there was a guy selling rcbs rockchuckers, for $40, that's a $200 press, he had a bunch, scales, dies, shell holders etc. Was a lot of bargains there but i need more reloading stuff like i need more guitars.

Back in the 80's i could reload 38's 500/1000 at a time cheaper than i could buy 22's. Using scraped lead of course and not counting my labor.

Shooting .44 Special and .44 magnum as a broke student is what led me to reloading 30 years ago.
Then, I started casting and swaging my own bullets.
Then came black powder . More bullet and ball molds to buy.

With gun and ammo shortages, you could do a lot worse than a .44 caliber black powder revolver or a Pedersoli 20 gauge Howdah pistol.

[MattS]

Well, I took the advice of [mention]brentona[/mention] and bought a 20 gauge short barrel pump shotgun. At the same time, I also purchased a .45 1911 copy. Both are produced by Citadel, which are made in the Armscor/Rock Island Armory in the Philippines. Hope now I can find some ammo available to buy so I can start shooting.

Sorry about the last picture. I couldn't figure out how to rotate it.

Matt

[brentona]

Well, I took the advice of [mention]brentona[/mention] and bought a 20 gauge short barrel pump shotgun. At the same time, I also purchased a .45 1911 copy. Both are produced by Citadel, which are made in the Armscor/Rock Island Armory in the Philippines. Hope now I can find some ammo available to buy so I can start shooting.

IMG_4419.JPG

IMG_4420.JPG

IMG_4421.JPG

Sorry about the last picture. I couldn't figure out how to rotate it.

Matt

Very nice!! Can’t go wrong with a pump shotgun at all! And 20 is able to be shot by everyone.


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[uwmcscott]

Well, I took the advice of @brentona and bought a 20 gauge short barrel pump shotgun. At the same time, I also purchased a .45 1911 copy. Both are produced by Citadel, which are made in the Armscor/Rock Island Armory in the Philippines. Hope now I can find some ammo available to buy so I can start shooting.

IMG_4419.JPGIMG_4420.JPGIMG_4421.JPG

Sorry about the last picture. I couldn't figure out how to rotate it.

Matt

Looks like a good combo, congrats and HNGD#2! Hope you were able to score some Ammo, it's dry as a bone around here. I ended up pulling the trigger ( pun intended ) myself on an old-school Rossi 92 lever action ( 1892 copy ) in 357/38 special so I can share ammo with my revolver. Some times the old tried and true designs are the best.