NGD: Larry's Rootbeer

[BatUtilityBelt]

This was one of FatJack (Larry)'s guitars, an Agile AL-3010SE Rootbeer. The guitar arrived with dings and dents that were not disclosed, but I accept those as Larry's tendency (seeing worse dings on some of his other guitars). The high E string was broken at the nut. I replaced that string, and it has a sitar buzz at the nut on the high E string played open, so I have some nut work to do there. There is also some fret buzzing on the low E, and the action is appropriate, so there may be a little fret leveling to do, or I might find it acceptably minor.

Even though it was not shown in pictures, I expected the switch tip to still be broken because Larry had mentioned that before, and it is still broken, but it is functional. The electronics work as designed, and the pickups sound decent. It came with a decent leather strap, so that's a bonus.

Overall, I overpaid a bit given its condition, but knew I was taking a chance. It will just be my most abused Agile, and I'll probably refer to it as Larry. It will be played without worrying about adding more dings.

[BatUtilityBelt]

After playing it a good while, I took a closer look, and noticed some of the strings are resting on the back of the bridge, so the break angle there is too sharp.

There is no good reason to lower this bridge, and I typically don't like to raise a tailpiece, so I restrung it and over-wrapped. Surprise, what I thought was fret-buzz on the low E disappeared. I don't know how this works, but I think the slight low E buzz I had heard before restringing was coming from behind the saddles on the bridge? Hmm.

[Stoli]

I had a similar problem with mine for a while. I ended up slightly raising the bridge, about a 1/4 turn on the truss rod, and slightly raised the stop piece and my buzz went away. I wonder if all I needed to do was raise the stop piece or overwrap the strings on it. Other than the problem you had with string contacting the bridge, what is the purpose of raising or lowering a stop piece?

[mozz]

The tailpiece is adjustable for a reason. You don't have to have it decked to increase sustain. Old wives tale. Adjust it up till the strings don't hit the back of the bridge.

[BatUtilityBelt]

The tailpiece is adjustable for a reason. You don't have to have it decked to increase sustain. Old wives tale. Adjust it up till the strings don't hit the back of the bridge.

Sorry, I just don't agree. When the tailpiece is not decked, there is a bit more play, wiggle-room if you will, and screws, no matter how closely machined, have less play when they are tightened. That is why I like to deck the tailpiece. A tightened screw will transfer more vibration than an ever-so-infinitesimally loosened screw. And yes, I do know that most of that vibration is going through the bridge, not the tailpiece. Yet it is one machine comprised of all its parts. If you hear a rattle as you drive your car down the road, you tighten every bolt you can find until that goes away. Same thing.

[ID10t]

The tailpiece is adjustable for a reason. You don't have to have it decked to increase sustain. Old wives tale. Adjust it up till the strings don't hit the back of the bridge.

Sorry, I just don't agree. When the tailpiece is not decked, there is a bit more play, wiggle-room if you will, and screws, no matter how closely machined, have less play when they are tightened. That is why I like to deck the tailpiece. A tightened screw will transfer more vibration than an ever-so-infinitesimally loosened screw. And yes, I do know that most of that vibration is going through the bridge, not the tailpiece. Yet it is one machine comprised of all its parts. If you hear a rattle as you drive your car down the road, you tighten every bolt you can find until that goes away. Same thing.

I hear the words you speak however I will counter that argument by comparing it to a 2L bottle of seltzer. Tighten the cap enough so that it doesn't leak. More tighten doesn't make it leak less and may make it leak. Think further about a string being in tune, it will be a few cents sharp when you fret it, EVH tuned slightly flat for that reason. Proper placement of bridge and tailpiece height that doesn't twang or buzz is better than cranking down and having great sustain that twangs.
Or overwrap your tailpiece and do your jam Whatever works for ya.

[BatUtilityBelt]

I hear the words you speak however I will counter that argument by comparing it to a 2L bottle of seltzer. Tighten the cap enough so that it doesn't leak. More tighten doesn't make it leak less and may make it leak. Think further about a string being in tune, it will be a few cents sharp when you fret it, EVH tuned slightly flat for that reason. Proper placement of bridge and tailpiece height that doesn't twang or buzz is better than cranking down and having great sustain that twangs.
Or overwrap your tailpiece and do your jam Whatever works for ya.

Extra play is extra play. I reduce that as much for tuning stability as for sustain. I will say the guitar is already showing to be quite good in both categories with the tailpiece decked. I did not do a before/after comparison though. I will add that I do not overwrap most of my tailpieces, just found it appropriate here.

And I agree, whatever works for each of us is best.

[mozz]

You transfer vibration after the bridge, you are letting the body absorb it, should result in less sustain. I don't see why they made it adjustable then. They sure didn't make it to wrap around. I guess both ways decked or adjusted have pro's and cons. Yes it does have extra play when the screws aren't decked but I think they would have used finer thread if they were worried about that. ABR have fine 1/8" posts. You'd rather have a fine point than a heavy point if you want the sustain to stay on the string. I'm also one who doesn't believe a elec should sound perfect unplugged. My strat and tele builds all have neck inserts, between the nut and bridge you can really feel the entire neck vibrate.

[BatUtilityBelt]

You transfer vibration after the bridge, you are letting the body absorb it, should result in less sustain. I don't see why they made it adjustable then. They sure didn't make it to wrap around. I guess both ways decked or adjusted have pro's and cons. Yes it does have extra play when the screws aren't decked but I think they would have used finer thread if they were worried about that. ABR have fine 1/8" posts. You'd rather have a fine point than a heavy point if you want the sustain to stay on the string.

"Play" in a mechanism means loss of integrity. The play in untightened screws means they can move more than they would otherwise just transferring the vibration, and their movement takes energy away from string vibration instead of just supporting it as I see it. I don't want to make this some ridiculously religious conversation that will work its way into "tone wood", but I'm not the one who said any particular way to set up a guitar was wrong, now was I?

[honyock]

Just get locking tailpiece studs and then you can put them at the correct height for the tailpiece relative the bridge on the saddles adjusted for shorter scale length requiring less break angle.

However, the string tension provides the contact on the studs, so the play is moot when the system is under tension.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

[BatUtilityBelt]

Just get locking tailpiece studs and then you can put them at the correct height for the tailpiece relative the bridge on the saddles adjusted for shorter scale length requiring less break angle.

However, the string tension provides the contact on the studs, so the play is moot when the system is under tension.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

Sorry, it's not moot. Saying so doesn't make it so, it just makes it religion. I don't need to swap out any parts here, the guitar now operates and sounds great. The buzz is gone, and the bridge is no longer getting undue side force. Why is that so evil? What is this religious bent against overwrapping when someone chooses to do it? Let me give a comparison given a very similar guitar I also have.

My AL-3001's bridge is low enough that the strings only contact the saddles, and not any other part of the bridge without overwrapping or raising the tailpiece. So I don't overwrap it.

On the other hand, my AL-3010's bridge is high enough that the strings do contact the back of the bridge unless the tailpiece is overwrapped or raised. So I do overwrap it.

So the reason I choose to overwrap some guitars and not others depends upon how well the neck was set. If the neck set causes the bridge to be high enough to cause other issues, I will overwrap to compensate. Saying this is wrong is just taking a religious stance. There is no "wrong" either way.

You're being ridiculous. Many people overwrap, and most overwrappers do it more than I do. People mod guitars in much more aggressive ways than than this completely reversible configuration, and there is nothing wrong with that. Many great guitar heroes owe some of their greatness to the mods they did. Nothing wrong with that at all. Quit being religious about it already.

[BatUtilityBelt]

Bottom line: Overwrapping improved this guitar's tone by removing ugly sounding unintended vibration dampening contact at the back of the bridge. So it is now good. And with the dings the guitar already had from Larry or its first owner, any scratches the strings will put on the tailpiece will only add more character. And it's my guitar so it will stay this way, nyeah!

Here, have a picture.

[honyock]

Just get locking tailpiece studs and then you can put them at the correct height for the tailpiece relative the bridge on the saddles adjusted for shorter scale length requiring less break angle.

However, the string tension provides the contact on the studs, so the play is moot when the system is under tension.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

Sorry, it's not moot. Saying so doesn't make it so, it just makes it religion. I don't need to swap out any parts here, the guitar now operates and sounds great. The buzz is gone, and the bridge is no longer getting undue side force. Why is that so evil? What is this religious bent against overwrapping when someone chooses to do it? Let me give a comparison given a very similar guitar I also have.

My AL-3001's bridge is low enough that the strings only contact the saddles, and not any other part of the bridge without overwrapping or raising the tailpiece. So I don't overwrap it.

On the other hand, my AL-3010's bridge is high enough that the strings do contact the back of the bridge unless the tailpiece is overwrapped or raised. So I do overwrap it.

So the reason I choose to overwrap some guitars and not others depends upon how well the neck was set. If the neck set causes the bridge to be high enough to cause other issues, I will overwrap to compensate. Saying this is wrong is just taking a religious stance. There is no "wrong" either way.

You're being ridiculous. Many people overwrap, and most overwrappers do it more than I do. People mod guitars in much more aggressive ways than than this completely reversible configuration, and there is nothing wrong with that. Many great guitar heroes owe some of their greatness to the mods they did. Nothing wrong with that at all. Quit being religious about it already.

chill out dude, one response does not a zealot make. I'll move on, you obviously know way more than I about simple mechanics...

[BatUtilityBelt]

chill out dude, one response does not a zealot make. I'll move on, you obviously know way more than I about simple mechanics...

It was the piling-on. It seems every electric guitar forum has some sort of religious debate over this topic.

[Stoli]

Wow, lot's to think about there I guess. My takeaway is that if you can leave the stop piece tight to the body of the guitar without the strings touching the back side of the bridge then just do that and leave it alone.