Local London!

[Chocol8]

Hey [mention]toomanycats[/mention] do you need a backup rig? This is very tempting but I have several other things on the wish list that would get far more use.

https://rochester.craigslist.org/msg/d/ ... 79525.html

The list price on a Blue set like that was somewhere around $3500 so the $1400 asking price seems pretty darn reasonable to me. The reds go for about that.

[toomanycats]

Hey @toomanycats do you need a backup rig? This is very tempting but I have several other things on the wish list that would get far more use.

https://rochester.craigslist.org/msg/d/ ... 79525.html

The list price on a Blue set like that was somewhere around $3500 so the $1400 asking price seems pretty darn reasonable to me. The reds go for about that.

I've never played a Red Line 65 Amps. I think that the major difference is that the Blue Line is hand wired point to point and the Red Line has a PCB board. There might be differences in other components too. The cabinet has the exact same speakers as mine, one Alnico Blue and one Vintage 30. Assuming it sounds as good as my 65, that's a lot of amp for $1,400.

One major difference between my Blue Line London and all the others is that it has the "Master Voltage" feature installed. This really makes it a killer piece of gear. I bought the 65 from Andy Elliott and it was his personal amp. Andy builds guitars for Peter Stroud and Dan Boul (founders of 65 Amps), and they in turn send him amps. I've been in Andy's shop on occasions when there where several 65 Amps on the floor. Most of the 65 Amps line has the "Master Voltage" feature, though the London does not. The London was the first amp 65 created and it's supposed to be this pure, simple, elegant, primitive thing. Andy wanted a "Master Voltage" on his London so he shipped it back to the factory in North Hollywood to have that feature specially installed. It allows me use it at very small venues, running at just a couple watts, with the volume cranked, pushing that 2X12 cabinet. It's not the same as the sound of an amp with the preamp cranked and the master volume turned down, which tends to sound fizzy to me. It's the sound of non master volume amp opened up wide, only with less volume. Honestly, I don't know what else they may have done to the amp, but I wouldn't be surprised if it has had other mods and enhancements. Those guys are tone freaks and into tweaking stuff.

[Chocol8]

The Blue line amps were hand made and around double the price of the red line. I have heard the hand wound transformers is the biggest difference, but I have never opened up either one and have not played or heard them side by side. I would definitely agree that a Blue line London for $1400 is a heck of an amp for the money. Honestly, I think that's a good price for just the head. I don't need to tell you how good they sound, but if anyone else is amp shopping, trust us, this is a heck of an amp!

The "master voltage" is another name for "power scaling" "Vari-Watt" and other branded mods that reduce the amps output power by reducing the B+ voltage to the tubes and correspondingly adjust the bias on fixed bias amps. Basically, it does what EVH did with the variac, but instead of turning down all voltages including the heater wires, it turns down just the B+ with the option to scale the entire amp or just the power section. A kit will run $75 or less and is a relatively easy install for any tech or someone with modest amp skills.

I am a big fan of this approach to volume reduction and have installed it on several amps. My main Twin Reverb is setup with a Vari-Watt kit that is scaling just the power section. That means I can get full gain out of the pre-amp and then hit a power section with MUCH reduced headroom to get edge of breakup tones at any volume level, and also massive power tube distortion not possible on a normal blackface amp. The scaling comes after the rectifier which means it doesn't have the squishy sag of EVH's variac'ed Marshall which is good or bad depending on your perspectives and tastes.

[toomanycats]

I just realized that I may be confused. That apparently is a Blue Line 65 Amps London, just upholstered in "strawberry red and white" as the seller describes it. I mistakenly thought it was a Red Line amp. That is a stupid good price for a Blue Line head and cabinet!

One thing the seller is confused about however is that it has "British and American channels." It is two discrete amps, but both are British. The left side is based on the so called Marshall Bluesbreaker. The right side is based on a VOX AC15. There is actually a "third channel" accessed by engaging the boost on the VOX side. It is probably the most harmonically rich, creamy, satisfying gain channel I've ever played.

The lead that comes in at 0:33 is the boosted VOX channel of the 65 London. Those are single coils! (P-90s in an Agile AL-3010SE)



And this is the 65 London pushed to its gain limit, no overdrive pedal, Gibson Les Paul straight into the amp. It'll definitely get you to Sabbath territory.

[nomadh]

The Blue line amps were hand made and around double the price of the red line. I have heard the hand wound transformers is the biggest difference, but I have never opened up either one and have not played or heard them side by side. I would definitely agree that a Blue line London for $1400 is a heck of an amp for the money. Honestly, I think that's a good price for just the head. I don't need to tell you how good they sound, but if anyone else is amp shopping, trust us, this is a heck of an amp!

The "master voltage" is another name for "power scaling" "Vari-Watt" and other branded mods that reduce the amps output power by reducing the B+ voltage to the tubes and correspondingly adjust the bias on fixed bias amps. Basically, it does what EVH did with the variac, but instead of turning down all voltages including the heater wires, it turns down just the B+ with the option to scale the entire amp or just the power section. A kit will run $75 or less and is a relatively easy install for any tech or someone with modest amp skills.

I am a big fan of this approach to volume reduction and have installed it on several amps. My main Twin Reverb is setup with a Vari-Watt kit that is scaling just the power section. That means I can get full gain out of the pre-amp and then hit a power section with MUCH reduced headroom to get edge of breakup tones at any volume level, and also massive power tube distortion not possible on a normal blackface amp. The scaling comes after the rectifier which means it doesn't have the squishy sag of EVH's variac'ed Marshall which is good or bad depending on your perspectives and tastes.

So there is a kit to fairly easily mod a twin to be useful to the home player? I did not realize this. Does that power scaling really give you the tone? Does it really give you the overdriven power tube type distortion?

[Chocol8]

So there is a kit to fairly easily mod a twin to be useful to the home player? I did not realize this. Does that power scaling really give you the tone? Does it really give you the overdriven power tube type distortion?

A bit off topic, but this is AGF so...

All means of reducing volume have some impact on the tone. Pre or post phase inverter master volumes, attenuators and voltage scaling all work and also all have side effects. Just the nature of not pushing the speakers as hard and the fletcher munson curve will change things a little no matter what you do. The voltage reduction doesn’t strip the highs and make the amp sound flat or dull like a volume pot or attenuators can. You won’t have output transformer saturation in amps that get that (not a TR), certainly no speaker cone cry or other distortion, and when and how it distorts may be a bit different.

That said, yes, a variable voltage kit can really give you truly overdriven power tubes at bedroom levels. The kit I have can scale from what I am guessing is under a watt to the full 85 ish watts which covers “conversation quiet” to “peel the paint off the walls” loud. The way I have it setup, if I turn the voltage way down, the preamp doesn’t scale and the power tubes will overdrive with a weak signal. I then use a combination of guitar volume, channel volume and a post phase inverter master volume to keep the signal in the sweet spot for edge of breakup or clean tones, or whatever I am after.

My main guitar is a Strat with the active midboost kit. I often will set the amp with channel volume well up, and then use the PPIMV and voltage pots to set the amp at the volume I want and at edge of breakup with the guitar volume at around 7. I then have clean tones at guitar volume of 5 or so, crunch with the guitar volume up, and then if I crank the midboost, I get into high gain territory. All with guitar controls, no pedals, and no foot switches or channel switching.

[Chocol8]

BTW, someone please buy this before I do. If someone want to send money, I’ll even pick it up for you, free of charge just to save me $1,400 I don’t need to be spending on yet another amp!

[toomanycats]

So did you buy it yet?

[fatjack]

I hope he did I can't afford the debt of it and after listening to your first sample I'd be so tempted to figure out how to get it.

[Chocol8]

So did you buy it yet?

Not yet! I have been super busy with a remodeling project and starting a new job, I haven’t had time to even think about it. But if it is still available in a week or two...