No disrespect to our new forum designer/owner/administrator. I am personally 100% grateful for the quick, efficient establishment of our new pad here. The only word I can come up with to describe is... heroic. But unless I am hallucinating, feels to me like there's an elephant in the apartment, after the excitement of the move has worn off.
It's been a month now, and I can't put my finger on why I'm am not drawn to spend as much tme on our AGF home here as before Momogeddon, and I'm trying to figure out why. I still check in most everyday, but feel less and less draw to do that. It just feels like I'm just visiting in someone else's home rather than coming to what was "my" home. Overall the forum seems not as active, seems "sterile" or something I can't quite identify. It does have some swank new features I enjoy. Still, I don't feel nearly as comfortable just posting like before even though most of the main characters are the same. Is it the "new house" effect? ie... does it just has to be lived in a bit? I don't have any experience with brand new forums. Maybe it's still the shock of what happened and the loss of our collective history. Maybe there's some political allegory in there, let's not get to deep.
Hypothetical.... If we simply had much the same colour scheme/interface as prior, would that make the difference? I don't want this to become an axeland chateau situation. I want AGF to remain my go-to guitar forum, and AGF people my go-to guitar peeps, but I feel myself drifting.
Does anyone else feel the same? If so, any suggestions, ideas? FWIW I do find the right-side avatars, and non-standard sizes off-putting. The "support forum" banner up top bugs me, and I don't know why. I'm a member of more than one community, and the bright scheme here does not compare favourably with others I visit. I also am taking the extra log-in step every time I visit. Perhaps all niggling points. It's all I got.
This is in the interest of possible community improvements to consider, not a bitch session. If I had the technical expertise i'd probably understand better. I do have some simple graphic design skills to offer, if required.
I had only been in the old forum a few months, and seldom contributed, but yes, I feel like something is missing. Flavor, maybe. Maybe a bit of sizzle. I can't really put my finger on it either, except that things feel a little flat. I also tend to agree with you that the visual presentation may have something to do with it.
I know the community spirit is there, it was clearly obvious during The Rebellion, and if I didn't feel like a true insider before, I got the spirit during. Like you, I don't want to come off as a complainer, but I agree that there is an elephant that needs to be mentioned.
AGF.net is really the only site I frequent regularly. I visit and lurk as much as ever and don't post much. The issues for me don't seem to be related to the site at all. It's the overall state of things in the hobby itself. There is not as much trading or deals being posted because shipping skyrocketed and it generally isn't worth it. The deals aren't there like they used to be. I miss finding a blow out deal on something great. It was great when Musician's Friend did Fender Fridays, or when they had the Silver Creek acoustics for cheap. Deals are just harder to come by in general. Every now and then something will come along but no nearly as frequent as they used to. Also, market places such as FB Marketplace or Craigslist are a hassle to buy or sell on.
I'm also at a good point with my gear and I have spent more time playing and practicing. As a player I'm better than ever, but at the same time feel like I know nothing. I do try to spend more time working on my abilities and less time focusing on gear.
There are also few bands or musicians new or old that excite me these days, but that may just be middle-age setting in. Most new stuff just sounds generic to me and the old stuff as good as it is can get tiring.
In all seriousness, I was o my around about a week before it all went South, I’m trying to work on a more Guitar oriented theme in the background, bit it’s a ton of work, and real work is crazy.
Every time you move into a new house it's hard. You could find the toilet in the dark in the old house, and you knew exactly where you stored the pedals you don't want your wife to find. Everything is here, but it's in a different place, and looks a little different. It will become normal sooner than we think, but it won't be normal for a little while.
Also, I think part of it is hard because the regular world is insane. There are no live shows we've seen to talk about, no gigs we've played to report back about, no trips to the GC or the mom and pop to try out the new git/pedal/amp. As others have mentioned, used gear sales have slowed significantly across the board. Plus, at least for me, there are a lot of other distractions and concerns that occupy my time than before. It's weird, but because nothing is happening in the world I actually have more things to do around the house. Which means less time for AGF.
The important thing is the community has a home. We may need to repaint some of the rooms or redo the floors. But we're home.
Stellar work by Patrick, Mickey Tobijohn UrenragK Sabas and others to get us where we are today, and it is truly appreciated.
We are still missing a lot of members, including some who added so much to the forum before. The old colors (dark theme) is definitely missed, maybe my brain just associates that layout with AGF? SOOOOO much content was lost, and those who had posted the most must surely be feeling that loss, and perhaps some reluctance to invest again at that level, understanding now that it can all be gone in a flash.
The world is a mess right now and that is a drag on emotions and mental energy as well.
Any time there is a loss a there is a grieving process and I can feel that at work too. It takes time to readjust.
And in truth my own personal issues were keeping me from contributing very much even before momogeddon. I come here every day, but mostly read a bit and am done. I don't play anymore due to hand issues and I don't buy any more because I have a stupid amount of low/mid level guitars (cost wise). I like every one of them and have no desire to sell, but in retrospect wish I had not gone ocd crazy buying so many.
I hope this community will rebound. I have been a part of smaller, but similar forums before, and in the end several of them disappeared due to to many ownership and location changes, shedding members with every move.
Anyway, it definitely feels different, because it IS different. I plan to visit daily for the foreseeable future, but again I haven't been adding much to AGF for some years now.
I'm quite fond of you folks, and hope for better days ahead for all of us.
What spurred this on for me was recent big changes to another haunt of mine, The Canadian Guitar forum. It's just so distasteful to me, and so evident that the members are being used as and advertising audience. I know as it stands now that is not the issue here, but it may change over time as these communities grow in value.
This blue and grey scheme is so medical, cold, scientific. I think we could use some warmth here. More masculine, organic maybe. Maybe a sunburst sort of theme? just playing a bit.
Another thing that bugs me is avatar gear lists. Dude makes a three word post, then half my screen space becomes blank to accomodate your lengthy gear list. Do I really need to see your pedal list with every post you make? Frankly no, I don't
Well all I can say for myself and the Moderators here is that we have OUR OWN place now. Change sucks most of the time but we are where we are and nobody will take it away from us. Thanks to all the Donations made I was able to pay for the site hosting for 2 years MINIMUM. As far as the "theme look" of the site, it is the DEFAULT one that the PHP Board software comes with. It WORKS!
I tried early on to get the board up with another one but as everyone knows that went into the crapper pretty quick. The issue was that we all wanted customizations that would have required multiple implementations across those "looks" and therefor multiple coding efforts...change one you've got to change them all. A Royal PITA to support.
I know Rich has been working a "new look" for us. Bear in mind he is doing this on his own time and his own dime. When he's ready, and only when he feels it's ready, we'll do alot of testing before we roll it out and more than likely that will become the "new Default". We just ask all of you for patience...we'll get there.
The last version of AGF was a $600 purchased "canned" package built off the base PHP Code. To be honest I didn't have that kind of cash available to risk on the new site' success. So I opted for the least financially impactful solution that could be cleanly implemented quickly, be upgradeable with time tested "Mods" used by many other sites and get it up and running in two weeks or less. I had no idea when the MOFOs were going to REALLY pull the plug. With a TREMENDOUS amount of help we got this site up and fully functional in less than 10 days. I'm proud of that but also humbled at the encouragement and support every member, old and new, that has brought to life The NEW AGF. You've all renewed my faith in humanity.
I fully admit I was personally motivated to "stickit to the MOFOs" and blindside their asses at and in record time.
We all made that happen. THEY are a complete and utter failure. And just as importantly, their REPUTATION is in the toilet.
This much I can promise ALL of you...The NEW AGF will NEVER BE SOLD, RAPED OR PILLAGED in ANY manner, shape, or form. If I ever decide to "pass the baton" it will be announced publicly way ahead of time and offered up to a vetted individual(s) who will carry on in our finest tradition...The NEW AGF is OUR Board, owned, operated and supported by US. And THAT will NEVER change while I Captain the the good ship NEW AGF.
Patrick
U.S. Manufacturer Of Musical Instrument Protection Accessories: AxeShield HD, AxeSak HD, AmpShield HD, KeyShield HD, PedalShield HD, MixShield HD, AxeGlove And AxeCap.
I agree with [mention]Flatline[/mention] regarding the whole music and gear scenes this year. As a lefty, I notice when the market is drying up probably faster than righties, because the market for lefties is never more than moist at best. The MOMOnstrosity was really bad on its own, but coinciding with world events this year meant everything got knocked sideways much more than just the MOMO thing would have. I think the community is here, holding on, waiting for more normalcy to return. I don't have any ideas to help that along, but would love to read some.
fullonshred wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:35 pm
I haven't been adding much to AGF for some years now.
I agree with everything you said except this. This is not true. I've only been here for maybe 5 years or so, but you've been adding things for at least that long...
There are subtle changes and when you are used to things being a certain way, you tend to resist change. I find this particularly true as I get older.
That said, this chabge was forced, and it wad amazing that it happened at all. If anything, I am more likeky to show my support as it cane about in such an unexpected and heroic fashion.
Yes, change is hard, and we tend to fear it. I too am on the CanadianGuitar forum,and I don't love the changes. But, other boards I have been on changed, and I got used to it.
"I'm not a sore loser. It's just that I prefer to win, and when I don't, I get furious." - Ron Swanson
As superficial as it is, I prefer a darker "skin" (I think its called) as its easier on my eyes and "looks better" to me.
But one feature I do miss is where one gets brought to their first unread post in the thread chosen. One doesnt need to scroll through already read posts to catch up, but is delivered to the first post they havent yet read. That could be a pita to obtain.
I like this site otherwise, and thanks to all the effort to create this place, we get to remain as a group of guitar fans. Its mostly the same to me.
"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, stratagems, and spoils. The motions of his spirit are dull as night, and his affections dark as Erebus. Let no such man be trusted."
Rollin Hand wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:40 pm
There are subtle changes and when you are used to things being a certain way, you tend to resist change. I find this particularly true as I get older.
That said, this chabge was forced, and it wad amazing that it happened at all. If anything, I am more likeky to show my support as it cane about in such an unexpected and heroic fashion.
Yes, change is hard, and we tend to fear it. I too am on the CanadianGuitar forum,and I don't love the changes. But, other boards I have been on changed, and I got used to it.
I don't think this is what is being referred to in the original post. I take it that he is describing a certain missing character. Something in the region of "look and feel". While everyone understands that look and navigation are largely dictated by the platform, if a similar (not necessarily equal) emotional feel can't be evoked, then we have lost something valuable.
We know longer have the history & archive of the old site. This was a big draw for people doing a web search & coming to the forum. That is the biggest change I've seen.
There were also fewer & fewer build/mod threads on the old site of late & that has carried over to here too.
Throw in pictures of scantily clad females & that about covers everything I come here for.
With the pandemic, nothing is the same anyway... People everywhere are bored, out of job or depressed. Not sure the new forum has anything to do with it.
Partscaster wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:58 pm
As superficial as it is, I prefer a darker "skin" (I think its called) as its easier on my eyes and "looks better" to me.
But one feature I do miss is where one gets brought to their first unread post in the thread chosen. One doesnt need to scroll through already read posts to catch up, but is delivered to the first post they havent yet read. That could be a pita to obtain.
I like this site otherwise, and thanks to all the effort to create this place, we get to remain as a group of guitar fans. Its mostly the same to me.
I'm with you in that I also preferred the dark format on the old forum.
And you just have not found the "goto first unread" function.
When you pull up the "new posts" from the "Quick Links" menu, if there is a little red square on the left side of a thread you are interested in
CLICK ON IT! That is the "goto first unread"
Partscaster wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:58 pm
But one feature I do miss is where one gets brought to their first unread post in the thread chosen. One doesnt need to scroll through already read posts to catch up, but is delivered to the first post they havent yet read. That could be a pita to obtain.
At the top of each thread to the right is a link that says "First unread post". Click that to be taken to the first unread post in the thread you are viewing.
Partscaster wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:58 pm
As superficial as it is, I prefer a darker "skin" (I think its called) as its easier on my eyes and "looks better" to me.
But one feature I do miss is where one gets brought to their first unread post in the thread chosen. One doesnt need to scroll through already read posts to catch up, but is delivered to the first post they havent yet read. That could be a pita to obtain.
I like this site otherwise, and thanks to all the effort to create this place, we get to remain as a group of guitar fans. Its mostly the same to me.
I'm with you in that I also preferred the dark format on the old forum.
And you just have not found the "goto first unread" function.
When you pull up the "new posts" from the "Quick Links" menu, if there is a little red square on the left side of a thread you are interested in
CLICK ON IT! That is the "goto first unread"
NICE! I didn't know about that one! Super helpful to know.
Partscaster wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:58 pm
As superficial as it is, I prefer a darker "skin" (I think its called) as its easier on my eyes and "looks better" to me.
But one feature I do miss is where one gets brought to their first unread post in the thread chosen. One doesnt need to scroll through already read posts to catch up, but is delivered to the first post they havent yet read. That could be a pita to obtain.
I like this site otherwise, and thanks to all the effort to create this place, we get to remain as a group of guitar fans. Its mostly the same to me.
I'm with you in that I also preferred the dark format on the old forum.
And you just have not found the "goto first unread" function.
When you pull up the "new posts" from the "Quick Links" menu, if there is a little red square on the left side of a thread you are interested in
CLICK ON IT! That is the "goto first unread"
Thank you very much, Mickey.
One less tech-illiterate obstacle for me.
"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, stratagems, and spoils. The motions of his spirit are dull as night, and his affections dark as Erebus. Let no such man be trusted."
First off, thanks go where it's due: I appreciate all of the hard work and dedication - commitment that went into getting this site up and rolling.
Sincerely, thank you.
I would also request a few extras - functionally speaking - new themes, etc - but I know that takes time and I've become infinitely more patient as I age. No rush. I have no serious complaints, nor have I seen anyone else levy them - this itself is a recognizable accomplishment. That said, dark mode would be lovely.
My participation here has waned quite a bit as well, aside from the occasional long-winded diatribe. Before the changeover, I tried several things to get some discussion going other than guitars, because I just don't get off on the "in the weeds" type of chat that it tends to breed lately (although I understand some do). Some of those topics just don't resonate with me - and that's kinda where this forum has gone lately.
I've posted threads about other topics I'm interested in, but they seem stillborn. If we're being honest, I was disappointed in the lack of interest in my (and other's) build threads. I love a good build thread, but they don't flourish here, so I go to TDPRI for that. The guitar building threads are the only ones I read there. I thought my attempt to show how to build a very basic guitar as easily as possible might cause a splash here and, while it had it's followers, it didn't catch fire or really get more than a few regular readers and some "likes." It was a lot of extra work, and I thought more would be interested. I posted it here because we had a tighter knit community.
"Off topics" just don't have the same traction they used to. Hell, even the bewb pics have dried up. Maybe in today's social climate, they should. That said, it would be nice to see some more diversity around here. Women are a fast growing segment of the market (so I read), I'd love to see some be able to hang around here as equals. Now, I don't know what ethnicity most of you are (nor does it bother me one way or the other), but it seems we're mostly older white guys. This isn't a complaint, I'd just like to see more varied opinions and experiences.
I know, I know, I know this can't happen: but I'd really love to find a way to discuss current events with you in a kind, decent, open, honest, and non-combatative manner. I know some of you hold deeply differing opinions than I do - and that makes me want to discuss them with you. Not in an effort to convince, convert, or cajole, but to invest in and try to understand - though we may still disagree (and not hate each other) in the end. I have always felt that I can't rightfully be fully confident in my own opinions until I have sought out and truly tried to understand the people who hold opposing positions. I view you fellas as very intelligent and passionate individuals, and that represents a wealth of information that I can't tap into. I think it's a shame those types of conversation have to be verboten.
In thinking about this, I've come to the realization that the forum's membership has changed much over time. I've been a part of AGF in it's various forms since (I think) 2006 or so. I've been having convo with some of you for getting close to 15 years! This is not a knock on anyone here past or present, but a lot of my favorite members have moved on. I think that's what has had the biggest effect on my increasingly becoming more of a lurker here. There's something different (missing?) about today's AGF because of this.
At one point, the people here were so close, they had nationwide get togethers. I have never heard of any other forum getting together like this. Even though it happened more than once, I was never able to go - but I always thought it was amazing to see the pictures of an AGF Bar-B-Que. I was sad not to go, but I appreciated being invited. I can't see that happening now, global pandemic or no.
ILuvTeles wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:01 pm
We know longer have the history & archive of the old site. This was a big draw for people doing a web search & coming to the forum. That is the biggest change I've seen.
There were also fewer & fewer build/mod threads on the old site of late & that has carried over to here too.
Throw in pictures of scantily clad females & that about covers everything I come here for.
I put a bigsby on my Goldtop Callisto.
"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, stratagems, and spoils. The motions of his spirit are dull as night, and his affections dark as Erebus. Let no such man be trusted."
First, let me say how grateful I am to Patrick and everyone else who's valiant efforts have allowed the core of the AGF community to continue on this new platform, different though it is.
I agree that there's an unfamiliar vibe to our new home. Some of the previous comments have pointed out the fact that there's an awful lot of crazy stuff going on in the outside world, much of it being significantly impactful to our little guitar microcosm in myriad ways. It just feels weird in general, everywhere, not just here. Lots of us looked at AGF as a safe and dependable haven even before the dung hit the fan; and after the world went sideways we had the double whammy of having our favorite guitar forum yanked out from under us. Maybe there's like a magnifying effect going on in that sense.
Think of it this way: Imagine you're a little kid and your house burns down, destabilizing your entire world. Your teddy bear gets burned up in the blaze. Mom and Dad buy you a brand new bear, and its really nice, though it just feels weird because it's not the old "Teddy". Normally you'd be ecstatic to get a new stuffed animal, but under the circumstances you feel lost and disoriented, finding it hard to bond. Maybe this is a poor allegory, I don't know. I'll spell it out: The house that burns down is the world; the teddy that gets burned up is the old AGF; Mom and Dad are Patrick and his helpers; the news Teddy is the new AGF. Oh, I forgot one character: The night the kids house and old Teddy burned, a single bedbug escaped by tagging along on his pajamas. That bedbug now lives with the kid on the new Teddy. That bedbug is [mention]peskypesky[/mention], because you just can't get rid of that guy.
I'm joking, I'm joking [mention]peskypesky[/mention]. You know I love you man.
“There are only two means of refuge from the miseries of life: Music and Cats!” Albert Schweitzer
Lots of great thoughts here already and i agree with almost all of them. And that's very likely the reason i'm still here - the commonality and camaraderie of the core members of this community. I was by no means an "old timer" in the overall life of AGF, but I think it was almost 10 years so I guess i'm at least a "regular"
As far as the whole disaster of the old site/momo/this site, I honestly was not all that disturbed by it. Sure all the old content is mostly gone, but we went through transitions where old content was lost more than once before too - just not in the same way or in such a drastic measure.
I would also chalk up a lot of the reduced traffic here to the state of the world. I was spending way less time on the old AGF too since this shit-storm started. People are dying directly from this horrid plague, and killing themselves due to all the fallout surrounding it. People are losing their jobs, their businesses, their homes and who knows what else -and that fallout is only beginning to be fully understood. It will be many years before the full scope is even known, this is literally a 1000 year event I think.
TVvoodoo wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:40 am
No disrespect to our new forum designer/owner/administrator. I am personally 100% grateful for the quick, efficient establishment of our new pad here. The only word I can come up with to describe is... heroic. But unless I am hallucinating, feels to me like there's an elephant in the apartment, after the excitement of the move has worn off.
It's been a month now, and I can't put my finger on why I'm am not drawn to spend as much tme on our AGF home here as before Momogeddon, and I'm trying to figure out why. I still check in most everyday, but feel less and less draw to do that. It just feels like I'm just visiting in someone else's home rather than coming to what was "my" home. Overall the forum seems not as active, seems "sterile" or something I can't quite identify. It does have some swank new features I enjoy. Still, I don't feel nearly as comfortable just posting like before even though most of the main characters are the same. Is it the "new house" effect? ie... does it just has to be lived in a bit? I don't have any experience with brand new forums. Maybe it's still the shock of what happened and the loss of our collective history. Maybe there's some political allegory in there, let's not get to deep.
Hypothetical.... If we simply had much the same colour scheme/interface as prior, would that make the difference? I don't want this to become an axeland chateau situation. I want AGF to remain my go-to guitar forum, and AGF people my go-to guitar peeps, but I feel myself drifting.
Does anyone else feel the same? If so, any suggestions, ideas? FWIW I do find the right-side avatars, and non-standard sizes off-putting. The "support forum" banner up top bugs me, and I don't know why. I'm a member of more than one community, and the bright scheme here does not compare favourably with others I visit. I also am taking the extra log-in step every time I visit. Perhaps all niggling points. It's all I got.
This is in the interest of possible community improvements to consider, not a bitch session. If I had the technical expertise i'd probably understand better. I do have some simple graphic design skills to offer, if required.
I feel exactly the same way and I'm glad to know it's not just me. The way this forum was built and tweaked for our use with such a quick turnaround is nothing short of amazing, so no disrespect to the creators mods. It just feels different. I think one feature on the old site that helped spur more conversation was that most folks used the front page to see the latest happenings, and in order for your thread to show up there you had to bump it (or add a second post to your new thread, for the uninitiated) so it got more exposure. I realize the "Active topics" festure works basically the same way as our old front page but it still feels like a new thread will fall out of view quickly if it's not super popular. Although, I guess if our visitor numbers are down we won't see threads get a lot of activity, anyway.
I echo the above comments about a dark/more aesthetically-pleasing theme. It's already been stated that themes take work and our devs already have jobs that pay, unlike running this place, so I've tried to leave that subject alone. Just throwing it out there, though, since we're all sharing and stuff.
Aaron
---------------
"What is perfect pitch?"
"Perfect pitch is when you toss a banjo into the dumpster, it hits an accordion and they both break."
I really appreciate the feedback, I’m humbled by the welcome you all have given me personally, and I’ll get working as quickly as possible on a theme that suits better.
It was the strong sense of community that hooked me from a simple search for Washburn guitars - there was a thread on the old AGF, and that’s how I lucked out!
let's not get to deep. 
