Need Some Help, Schooling On Zero Fret/Nut

[Lamf77]

So I got my hands on a nice, inexpensive Johnny Ramone Mosrite Copy. When I first played, there was annoying fret buzz on 2 frets. All the frets are level. At first I thought it was because the strings in question were too low. The nut looked to be cut really deep. The seller gave me credit toward this, and I figured a nut swap would be easy....wrong.
After removing it (and having it crack in half), I realized the string were not buzzing because the nut was cut too low, it was because the buzzing string were not low enough! Mainly the D string. So now I realize I do want a standard nut, I need something lower, not higher. This has what I found out is a Zero Fret. The Neck measure abouit 41.5-42mm wide and the depth nut slot is about 5.9-6mm in depth. From what I read, you want all the strings resting comfortably on the "zero fret".

So.....are there nuts out there specific to this issue? I have been unlucky at finding. Do I get a nut that fits and file down the bottom? I have seen several post saying, because the headstock is not at an angle, some of the string bay slip off the nut. So a string tree or cutting the nut deeper may be the answer?

Any help, advice, warnings or Xmas Wishes are appreciated!

[mickey]

On a Zero-fret guitar the nut has nothing whatever to do with string HEIGHT. It exists only to keep the strings spaced evenly APART.

[Lamf77]

On a Zero-fret guitar the nut has nothing whatever to do with string HEIGHT. It exists only to keep the strings spaced evenly APART.

That is what I read. So my goal is to have a nut which holds the strings in place, and allows them to rest over the zero fret?

[mickey]

On a Zero-fret guitar the nut has nothing whatever to do with string HEIGHT. It exists only to keep the strings spaced evenly APART.

That is what I read. So my goal is to have a nut which holds the strings in place, and allows them to rest over the zero fret?

Exactly. The strings MUST rest on the Zero fret.
I've never had to adjust the neck on a Zero-fret guitar, so I can't advise you there.

[Lamf77]

TUSQ makes a nut very close in length and width...6642. If a little to high, just file down the bottom I guess.

I just did not know if there were special nuts for this type of guitar. I had no luck Googling them.

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[mickey]

TUSQ makes a nut very close in length and width...6642. If a little to high, just file down the bottom I guess.

I just did not know if there were special nuts for this type of guitar. I had no luck Googling them.

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I dunno why you would consider replacing the nut. If any string is too high, just file the nut slot deeper. You don't even need a nut just pins to keep the string to string spacing correct.

[Lamf77]

TUSQ makes a nut very close in length and width...6642. If a little to high, just file down the bottom I guess.

I just did not know if there were special nuts for this type of guitar. I had no luck Googling them.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

I dunno why you would consider replacing the nut. If any string is too high, just file the nut slot deeper. You don't even need a nut just pins to keep the string to string spacing correct.

The nut that came with the guitar is cheap plastic and hollow! The current grooves were cut really bad and the strings sit funny. Plus when I went to remove it...it cracked.....

[toomanycats]

Think of it like this:

On a zero fret guitar the downward angle of the nut in relation to the zero fret should be such that it's applying the same downward pressure that your fingers would be applying when playing a bar chord.

Question: What happens when a beginning guitar player attempts to play a bar chord, yet fails to apply sufficient downward pressure with the index finger?

Answer: You hear that telltale buzzing, which is the sound of the strings not being fully depressed behind the "zero fret."

When playing a bar chord the fret in front of the index finger becomes the "zero fret."

Or think of it like this: A guitar with a zero fret is nothing more than a guitar with a capo above the 1st fret. If you've ever put a cap on a guitar, then you'll know how to adjust it so there's just enough pressure to make all the open strings ring freely. Adjust the nut height so it does that.

[Lamf77]

Think of it like this:

On a zero fret guitar the downward angle of the nut in relation to the zero fret should be such that it's applying the same downward pressure that your fingers would be applying when playing a bar chord.

Question: What happens when a beginning guitar player attempts to play a bar chord, yet fails to apply sufficient downward pressure with the index finger?

Answer: You hear that telltale buzzing, which is the sound of the strings not being fully depressed behind the "zero fret."

When playing a bar chord the fret in front of the index finger becomes the "zero fret."

Or think of it like this: A guitar with a zero fret is nothing more than a guitar with a capo above the 1st fret. If you've ever put a cap on a guitar, then you'll know how to adjust it so there's just enough pressure to make all the open strings ring freely. Adjust the nut height so it does that.

I bought several nuts to try. From what I read, the challenge is to get enough pressure on the zero fret like you mentioned. To do that, the nut needs to be lower. Then the issue is keeping the middle strings inside the grooves. That is why have some inexpensive nut files on order. Another fix I read is string trees or bar to hold the strings down inside the nut grooves. YOu can see from the picture the crappy job on the old nut, and how the middle string angle seems nearly straight with no bend. I gather if you can get the nut filed so the groove bottoms are just above the fretboard? At least I don't have to solder anything!

THanks.

[mickey]

My 1965 Hagstrom Viking I has the bar you mention & the nut slots go BELOW the rosewood.

P9070002.JPG

[Lamf77]

Think of it like this:

On a zero fret guitar the downward angle of the nut in relation to the zero fret should be such that it's applying the same downward pressure that your fingers would be applying when playing a bar chord.

Question: What happens when a beginning guitar player attempts to play a bar chord, yet fails to apply sufficient downward pressure with the index finger?

Answer: You hear that telltale buzzing, which is the sound of the strings not being fully depressed behind the "zero fret."

When playing a bar chord the fret in front of the index finger becomes the "zero fret."

Or think of it like this: A guitar with a zero fret is nothing more than a guitar with a capo above the 1st fret. If you've ever put a cap on a guitar, then you'll know how to adjust it so there's just enough pressure to make all the open strings ring freely. Adjust the nut height so it does that.

So I got a new nut....took a while, but I sanded the bottom until the string barely touched the fretboard. I tuned up and they stayed in the nut and did not slip out. At this point, do you think a retainer bar just behind the nut will make much difference? Thanks

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[toomanycats]

Think of it like this:

On a zero fret guitar the downward angle of the nut in relation to the zero fret should be such that it's applying the same downward pressure that your fingers would be applying when playing a bar chord.

Question: What happens when a beginning guitar player attempts to play a bar chord, yet fails to apply sufficient downward pressure with the index finger?

Answer: You hear that telltale buzzing, which is the sound of the strings not being fully depressed behind the "zero fret."

When playing a bar chord the fret in front of the index finger becomes the "zero fret."

Or think of it like this: A guitar with a zero fret is nothing more than a guitar with a capo above the 1st fret. If you've ever put a cap on a guitar, then you'll know how to adjust it so there's just enough pressure to make all the open strings ring freely. Adjust the nut height so it does that.

So I got a new nut....took a while, but I sanded the bottom until the string barely touched the fretboard. I tuned up and they stayed in the nut and did not slip out. At this point, do you think a retainer bar just behind the nut will make much difference? Thanks

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The nut must must be low enough that the strings have good downward pressure on the zero fret.

If the retainer bar depresses the strings sufficiently that it increases downward pressure on the nut, as well as preventing the strings from popping out, then it can't hurt.

[Lamf77]

I may grab one from Amazon and use the bar before screwing it down. How do I know what size to get? I think the string spacing between E strings is 35 mm?

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[mickey]

The nut must must be low enough that the strings have good downward pressure on the zero fret.

If the retainer bar depresses the strings sufficiently that it increases downward pressure on the nut, as well as preventing the strings from popping out, then it can't hurt.

Also, if the nut isn't cut low enough you will get some string buzzing.

[Lamf77]

The nut must must be low enough that the strings have good downward pressure on the zero fret.

If the retainer bar depresses the strings sufficiently that it increases downward pressure on the nut, as well as preventing the strings from popping out, then it can't hurt.

Also, if the nut isn't cut low enough you will get some string buzzing.

The grooves are deep enough, so I just sanded down the bottom until the strings barely touched the fretboard. I tuned it up and all seemed well. I am not using a wee bit of glue to secure the nut in place and will double check. I still have a small amound I can still sand off the bottom if need be, but did not want the strings to hit the fretboard. Thanks.

[Lamf77]

First....thanks for all the help! I grabbed a nut off eBay.....filed down the bottom until the strings were just above the fretboard and resting on the first fret. It was okay, but I added the retainer bar for good measure. Took 3 bars to find one with the right spacing, but was not too difficult. A mechanical engineer may see a slight shift of the bar to the left, but for me all good. Even the cat dude, who was watching intently, approves.

Now whether to deal with new electronics

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