Push/Pull pots for ALs - Asking the knowledged guys here

[sabasgr68]

One more thought... back in the 90's was the one and only time when I (as a "yute") purchased an auto stereo (it was a cassette player, had a remote) and paid to install it in my old beat up Taurus (which only had a radio). And that stereo had a button... I don't recall what it was called, but it was meant for when you're listening at a low volume - the manual explained how we don't perceive the trebles at lower volume and the button adjusted for that. It was noticeable. This was always in the back of my mind and I have a feeling that this somehow relates to those "treble bleed" mods

(yes, CD's existed but most of my music at the time was still on tapes and CD's back then were very easy to copy onto a tape, most home music systems were capable of that. I still feel that those tapes sounded better than CD's and especially mp3. I miss the hiss.).

I remember that some of the auto stereos I bought had a loudness function, for listening a low volume without losing "presence", or at least that´s how I remember it. Maybe is the same thing.

As for the "treble bleed" mods, the explanation of that is chinese to me

You know, sometimes I miss my tapes. That sound when you close the lid is very unique...

[Mossman]

Not sure if I will ever get this project done, but it wouldn´t hurt to educate myself a little.

I´ve read about Push/Pull pots for splitting coils on HBs.

Questions:

1) Agile ALs use short or long size shafts pots?

1.1) CTS, Bourns, or generic ones (Musiclily, for example). Does it really matter?


2) I´ve read about the A pots and B pots. In plain and simple english, why would I want to use A or B, and what for (volume or tone)? I´ve read technical articles, but I guess I still don´t see it clearly; again, simple english... (but I have this in my notes: "A" pot for Volume (natural ear response). Push/Pull volume pot A500K).



3) 250K or 500K pots? If I´m not wrong, 250K are generally used for single coils PUs, and 500K for HBs. If I have the option of full HB and single coil, which one should I use: 250K or 500K?


4) Hoping I´m not asking silly questions...


Thanks!

I think audio taper pots work best for tone, as well as volume. That's all I ever use.. and If you ask me, splitting a standard humbucker will never be as satisfying as a true single-coil pickup. It's just too weak and thin. As tobijohn mentioned, I had Tim make me a set of pickups for my Mahogany Tele build with one coil wound hotter so when you solo that coil, there's not as much of a drop in output or fullness to the tone. They still need a little boost when split, but it's the best sounding coil split I've heard yet. However it sounds like a burly Tele on steroids in full humbucker mode, so that's how I play it most of the time. I've taken to calling this guitar "The Boss".

[mention]tobijohn[/mention] isn't there something different about the magnets in your "Mix-Buckers" that he didn't do with mine?

[Buddha Pickups]

Not sure if I will ever get this project done, but it wouldn´t hurt to educate myself a little.

I´ve read about Push/Pull pots for splitting coils on HBs.

Questions:

1) Agile ALs use short or long size shafts pots?

1.1) CTS, Bourns, or generic ones (Musiclily, for example). Does it really matter?


2) I´ve read about the A pots and B pots. In plain and simple english, why would I want to use A or B, and what for (volume or tone)? I´ve read technical articles, but I guess I still don´t see it clearly; again, simple english... (but I have this in my notes: "A" pot for Volume (natural ear response). Push/Pull volume pot A500K).



3) 250K or 500K pots? If I´m not wrong, 250K are generally used for single coils PUs, and 500K for HBs. If I have the option of full HB and single coil, which one should I use: 250K or 500K?


4) Hoping I´m not asking silly questions...


Thanks!

I think audio taper pots work best for tone, as well as volume. That's all I ever use.. and If you ask me, splitting a standard humbucker will never be as satisfying as a true single-coil pickup. It's just too weak and thin. As tobijohn mentioned, I had Tim make me a set of pickups for my Mahogany Tele build with one coil wound hotter so when you solo that coil, there's not as much of a drop in output or fullness to the tone. They still need a little boost when split, but it's the best sounding coil split I've heard yet. However it sounds like a burly Tele on steroids in full humbucker mode, so that's how I play it most of the time. I've taken to calling this guitar "The Boss".

@tobijohn isn't there something different about the magnets in your "Mix-Buckers" that he didn't do with mine?

Really testing my memory here, I believe your set just uses mixed coils. Dimarzio does it a lot as well. One coil is wound with regular 42awg and the other is 43awg. They probably have one coil thats roughly 4.5k and the other is 6k? If i remember correctly. I try and closely match the turn counts, but the different wire yields a different resistance. I didn't start using the small flanker/helper magnets until 2016 or so. They give u essentially a p90 when split (2 magnets, 1 coil).
I think the extra magnet gives the most noticeable difference.

The sharkbite humbucker i make uses 3 magnets and mixed coils to 17k. So full humbucker is 3 magnets like a gibson dirty fingers, but you can split either coil to a 9.5 p90 or a 7.5 p90.

[tobijohn]

....As tobijohn mentioned, I had Tim make me a set of pickups for my Mahogany Tele build with one coil wound hotter so when you solo that coil, there's not as much of a drop in output or fullness to the tone. They still need a little boost when split, but it's the best sounding coil split I've heard yet. However it sounds like a burly Tele on steroids in full humbucker mode, so that's how I play it most of the time. I've taken to calling this guitar "The Boss".

@tobijohn isn't there something different about the magnets in your "Mix-Buckers" that he didn't do with mine?

Really testing my memory here, I believe your set just uses mixed coils. Dimarzio does it a lot as well. One coil is wound with regular 42awg and the other is 43awg. They probably have one coil thats roughly 4.5k and the other is 6k? If i remember correctly. I try and closely match the turn counts, but the different wire yields a different resistance. I didn't start using the small flanker/helper magnets until 2016 or so. They give u essentially a p90 when split (2 magnets, 1 coil).
I think the extra magnet gives the most noticeable difference.

The sharkbite humbucker i make uses 3 magnets and mixed coils to 17k. So full humbucker is 3 magnets like a gibson dirty fingers, but you can split either coil to a 9.5 p90 or a 7.5 p90.

As [mention]Buddha Pickups[/mention] mentioned, my set has the booster magnet on the split coil and there is really no discernable drop in output. Mine are also really pretty hot, 17K/12k IIRC. Tim had suggested something a little tamer and while I'm more than happy with them, if I had to do it all over again, I would go with his recommendation. They are still plenty versatile using the volume controls...

[Gear_Junky]

If the reasoning on using logarithmic "audio taper" pots for volume is correct, then my take on tone controls (and I'm not a techie): tone is really just a volume on a particular frequency band, you're still reducing volume, like on EQ. So it makes sense to use the same audio taper as full volume.

[andrewsrea]

^ good catch. I forgot to mention that Bournes and CTS require the holes be made a little bigger.

[Buddha Pickups]

If u need to enlarge the holes, u can get a reamer for maybe $5. Take it slow to prevent chipping away chunks of poly/paint

[tobijohn]

If u need to enlarge the holes, u can get a reamer for maybe $5. Take it slow to prevent chipping away chunks of poly/paint

I go from the outside in with a reamer and also cover the hole with blue painter's tape beforehand. I don't know if either of those ideas actually reduces the chance of chipping but so far, so good...

[sabasgr68]

The only thing I can add to what's already been stated (and I might have missed it) is that if you're going with SAE pots such as CTS and Bourn, the shafts are thicker and you'll have to bore out the holes in the body a bit. Not much, there's a specific tool for it but a pencil wrapped with sandpaper works just as well albeit a bit more slowly.

Also, when a humbucker is split, you're going to get a noticeable volume drop-off. If you want to avoid this and you're not intent on using a budget set of humbuckers then have Tim @Buddha Pickups make you a set with an uneven wind and booster magnet on the split coil. He's done that for both @Mossman and myself...

You made have to look for what SAE means. OK.

Whenever this project is done, I´ll use the pencil and sandpaper trick.

Thanks for the additional tips.

The drop-off volume thing it´s an unwanted issue indeed. Not sure if it was mentioned in the thread about this in the ex-agf site, or I forgot about it, or both.

Haha my idea is to use the PUs already in the guitar, as they are 4 wire. You made smile in a good way - I thank you for that! - If I can have a HB set hand made for me, then it is I am in another Venezuela, a better one. I am looking to have this project done because I thought it would be rather low cost and straigth forward; just getting two PP pots. I have a soldering gun and soldering wire from ancient times. Now I see it´ll take more than that to be done well.

[sabasgr68]

Not sure if I will ever get this project done, but it wouldn´t hurt to educate myself a little.

I´ve read about Push/Pull pots for splitting coils on HBs.

Questions:

1) Agile ALs use short or long size shafts pots?

1.1) CTS, Bourns, or generic ones (Musiclily, for example). Does it really matter?


2) I´ve read about the A pots and B pots. In plain and simple english, why would I want to use A or B, and what for (volume or tone)? I´ve read technical articles, but I guess I still don´t see it clearly; again, simple english... (but I have this in my notes: "A" pot for Volume (natural ear response). Push/Pull volume pot A500K).



3) 250K or 500K pots? If I´m not wrong, 250K are generally used for single coils PUs, and 500K for HBs. If I have the option of full HB and single coil, which one should I use: 250K or 500K?


4) Hoping I´m not asking silly questions...


Thanks!

I think audio taper pots work best for tone, as well as volume. That's all I ever use.. and If you ask me, splitting a standard humbucker will never be as satisfying as a true single-coil pickup. It's just too weak and thin. As tobijohn mentioned, I had Tim make me a set of pickups for my Mahogany Tele build with one coil wound hotter so when you solo that coil, there's not as much of a drop in output or fullness to the tone. They still need a little boost when split, but it's the best sounding coil split I've heard yet. However it sounds like a burly Tele on steroids in full humbucker mode, so that's how I play it most of the time. I've taken to calling this guitar "The Boss".

@tobijohn isn't there something different about the magnets in your "Mix-Buckers" that he didn't do with mine?

Had no idea about those mix-buckers. You´ll see, I´m still a newbie on many guitar things. That´s the perfect solution for a guy like me. It´s not that I want a stratocaster SC sound in my LP, but just a less fatter sound, but with no drop-off volume, or at least not that noticeable.

[sabasgr68]

The sharkbite humbucker i make uses 3 magnets and mixed coils to 17k. So full humbucker is 3 magnets like a gibson dirty fingers, but you can split either coil to a 9.5 p90 or a 7.5 p90.

I don´t know what that means, but somehow sounds good to have in a LP.

[sabasgr68]

As @Buddha Pickups mentioned, my set has the booster magnet on the split coil and there is really no discernable drop in output. Mine are also really pretty hot, 17K/12k IIRC. Tim had suggested something a little tamer and while I'm more than happy with them, if I had to do it all over again, I would go with his recommendation. They are still plenty versatile using the volume controls...

So you do actually play your things. Pics or... you know...

That´s what I imagine in my head as for what I want. A soundclip would be great, clean and overdriven, of the HB and split mode - neck and bidge -, to appreciate the behavior. Cowboy chords will do just fine for that

The good thing about this thread is that I learned more than a couple of things about HBs and spliting.

[Mossman]

Really testing my memory here, I believe your set just uses mixed coils. Dimarzio does it a lot as well. One coil is wound with regular 42awg and the other is 43awg. They probably have one coil thats roughly 4.5k and the other is 6k? If i remember correctly. I try and closely match the turn counts, but the different wire yields a different resistance. I didn't start using the small flanker/helper magnets until 2016 or so. They give u essentially a p90 when split (2 magnets, 1 coil).
I think the extra magnet gives the most noticeable difference.

The sharkbite humbucker i make uses 3 magnets and mixed coils to 17k. So full humbucker is 3 magnets like a gibson dirty fingers, but you can split either coil to a 9.5 p90 or a 7.5 p90.

Yeah, I think it's been like 5 years now, but you remember it pretty correctly. The resistance is around 11k total with a 6ish/4ish split.

How do you fit all those magnets in a humbucker casing?

[Mossman]

As @Buddha Pickups mentioned, my set has the booster magnet on the split coil and there is really no discernable drop in output. Mine are also really pretty hot, 17K/12k IIRC. Tim had suggested something a little tamer and while I'm more than happy with them, if I had to do it all over again, I would go with his recommendation. They are still plenty versatile using the volume controls...

17k!! That sounds certifiably insane to me... But if I ever do something like this again, I would be interested in trying the "booster magnet" option.

[Mossman]

Had no idea about those mix-buckers. You´ll see, I´m still a newbie on many guitar things. That´s the perfect solution for a guy like me. It´s not that I want a stratocaster SC sound in my LP, but just a less fatter sound, but with no drop-off volume, or at least not that noticeable.

That's the best way to approach split humbuckers. If you just want a different sound, or add a little shimmer to the HB sound, then you can have some fun with it, but if you expect it to make a stock LP humbucker sound like a Tele, you'll be disappointed.

[tobijohn]

Also, if the guitar doesn't already have them, upgrade to a set speed knobs as it's really hard to get a grip on the witch hat style. The only way you can really pull them up is to hook a fingernail under the lip. Anything I have with coil-spliting gets a set of speed knobs...

[sabasgr68]

Also, if the guitar doesn't already have them, upgrade to a set speed knobs as it's really hard to get a grip on the witch hat style. The only way you can really pull them up is to hook a fingernail under the lip. Anything I have with coil-spliting gets a set of speed knobs...

oh, boy, the project list is growing...

Duly noted.

[Buddha Pickups]

Really testing my memory here, I believe your set just uses mixed coils. Dimarzio does it a lot as well. One coil is wound with regular 42awg and the other is 43awg. They probably have one coil thats roughly 4.5k and the other is 6k? If i remember correctly. I try and closely match the turn counts, but the different wire yields a different resistance. I didn't start using the small flanker/helper magnets until 2016 or so. They give u essentially a p90 when split (2 magnets, 1 coil).
I think the extra magnet gives the most noticeable difference.

The sharkbite humbucker i make uses 3 magnets and mixed coils to 17k. So full humbucker is 3 magnets like a gibson dirty fingers, but you can split either coil to a 9.5 p90 or a 7.5 p90.

Yeah, I think it's been like 5 years now, but you remember it pretty correctly. The resistance is around 11k total with a 6ish/4ish split.

How do you fit all those magnets in a humbucker casing?

the flanker magnets are only half the size of a regular humbucker bar magnet.