NUGD: AL-2500 (I think)

[BatUtilityBelt]

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I have to start at the end here... love this guitar! It's in pristine shape, plays like butter and growls exactly like I want a P90 gold top to. Clean, it's also keenly articulate and resonant. Great honeymoon and no music seems out of character for it. And all I had to do is give it a light cleaning and minor setup adjustments. It's a gem, still even has plastic on the back covers. But I don't know exactly what it is because it predates truss rod cover model numbers. Unlike some though, it has a serial # (06219 if that says anything to anyone). It weighs 9 lbs, 4 oz, so not the heaviest LP around here.

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I'm thinking AL-2500, but am open to any correction. The guitar has a single-ply binding on body, neck, and headstock. It has a mahogany body and maple neck. The neck has a scarf joint, but by the grain appears both pieces are from the same board. The fretboard is rosewood. All that looks consistent with an AL-2500 or AL-2800 so I put it in that group. I'm not taking the pickups out to see the cap depth because they're set at a pretty perfect height/tilt.

This is different from an AL-2000 in that an AL-2000 does not have binding on the headstock, and the 2000 may not have the headstock inlay (at least my 2 don't). The nut width is 1.67" I call that neither narrow nor wide. One of my 2000's is a "wide" nut at 1.75". I always feel that difference in the cowboy chord region, and prefer the 1.67".

Bottom line, if anyone knows more about this model, I'd love to hear it. But no matter what I hear, this guitar stays. It's going to be one of my favorite Agiles.

[tobijohn]

FWIW, other than it being a CSBF with humbuckers, I've got one exactly like that. I've also got an old-style headstock AD-2500 without the fleur-de-lis, and an AD-2500 with the new headstock, fluor-de-lis and headstock binding. I have a few 2800 series with the fluor-de-lis but the new style headstock, and a few 2500 series with the new headstock, no headstock binding and no fluor-de-lis. I also have an AL with the old headstock, new horn, no headstock binding and abalone fret markers.

[Tonray's Ghost]

FWIW, other than it being a CSBF with humbuckers, I've got one exactly like that. I've also got an old-style headstock AD-2500 without the fleur-de-lis, and an AD-2500 with the new headstock, fluor-de-lis and headstock binding. I have a few 2800 series with the fluor-de-lis but the new style headstock, and a few 2500 series with the new headstock, no headstock binding and no fluor-de-lis. I also have an AL with the old headstock, new horn, no headstock binding and abalone fret markers.

It might be easier to list the Agile models you don't have

[tobijohn]

It might be easier to list the Agile models you don't have

Probably

[BatUtilityBelt]

FWIW, other than it being a CSBF with humbuckers, I've got one exactly like that. I've also got an old-style headstock AD-2500 without the fleur-de-lis, and an AD-2500 with the new headstock, fluor-de-lis and headstock binding. I have a few 2800 series with the fluor-de-lis but the new style headstock, and a few 2500 series with the new headstock, no headstock binding and no fluor-de-lis. I also have an AL with the old headstock, new horn, no headstock binding and abalone fret markers.

Wow! That's like the library of 2500. Assuming you've had the pickups out of at least one, do you recall them having a maple cap? I have no way to tell given the paint and binding.

[Brendan]

Damn, that’s a good score. I’ve been looking for one of those to put my Goldo trem on it.

[BatUtilityBelt]

Damn, that’s a good score. I’ve been looking for one of those to put my Goldo trem on it.

Thanks, and I agree. And now I just feel bad. I know there are others of this model out there, even in lefty, but I'm ending up with 2. Here's how that happened.

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When I first found this guitar listed by Music Go Round, there were 2 listings for it... one with knobs for $299.99, and one without knobs for $289.99. The Music Go Round SKUs for each were only different by 1 digit. As hard as I could evaluate them, it looked like they were the same guitar, just with and without knobs. I bought the one with knobs, and that's how it showed up. But the other Music Go Round listing remained active.

So Friday, I reached out to Music Go Round that they might want to take down that 2nd listing, but in the off-chance it really was a 2nd of the same exact guitar and they'd do the same free shipping deal as the 1st, I was interested. Because it is so good, having a backup for that price seems reasonable. They responded this morning that it was in fact a 2nd guitar, just like the first but missing knobs, which is why it was $10 less, and that yes, they'd do the free shipping for me again. So we made the deal, and it will be on its way in a couple days.

Like you, I wonder whether a Les Trem will work out well on this model. This guitar is so resonant that I have to worry putting a different tailpiece on it might take that away. But if I have 2 of this guitar and they respond the same otherwise, I'll be able to A/B them with and without the Les Trem right next to one another.

[tobijohn]

Wow! That's like the library of 2500. Assuming you've had the pickups out of at least one, do you recall them having a maple cap? I have no way to tell given the paint and binding.

None of them have the original pickups but I just don't recall whether any had maple caps. It was quite a while ago, sorry.

[BatUtilityBelt]

Still loving the 1st one, and the 2nd one is supposed to arrive Friday. In the meantime, curiosity got the better of me so I decided to look in the control cavity. I might be mistaken, but I think this is previous owner's work, not factory. It could go either way, but I don't think I'd see the flux pools if this was factory. That tells me the previous owner liked to mod. With this guitar's tone, I don't want to change a thing, and I still don't want to pull the pickups to see whether they're original because putting them back exactly as they are would be tough. But if these are not the original pots, that gives me a clue as to why the other gold top knobs are missing. It might be that, on that one, he went from 18 spline to 24 spline pots, so the knobs no longer fit. Just a guess, and the listing pictures are not nearly clean enough to judge that. The pots in the first gold top are still 18 spline though, so they might not be twins.

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[tobijohn]

From what I can see, the pots and caps look original, and I've had Agiles with flux pools like that, especially the older ones. Also, to my eye, it looks like the wires on the pots have only been attached once. If so, unless split (coil split Agiles use the tone controls), different pickups would not require any soldering on the tone controls, which aren't push/pulls anyway. And I don't think any stock AL/ADs came split until the 3100/3200 MC series.

Also, if you don't remove the pickup from its ring, it can be removed by just loosening the strings, the neck position definitely can unless there's absolutely no extra material at the tuners, and that shouldn't affect the pickup height when reattaching.

[BatUtilityBelt]

From what I can see, the pots and caps look original, and I've had Agiles with flux pools like that, especially the older ones. Also, to my eye, it looks like the wires on the pots have only been attached once. If so, unless split (coil split Agiles use the tone controls), different pickups would not require any soldering on the tone controls, which aren't push/pulls anyway. And I don't think any stock AL/ADs came split until the 3100/3200 MC series.

That helps, thanks. I just don't remember seeing that before on a factory job.

Also, if you don't remove the pickup from its ring, it can be removed by just loosening the strings, the neck position definitely can unless there's absolutely no extra material at the tuners, and that shouldn't affect the pickup height when reattaching.

Agree with humbuckers, but these are soapbars. I suppose I could carefully measure before/after, but it feels like I'd be endangering the magic tone.

[tobijohn]

Agree with humbuckers, but these are soapbars...

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[uwmcscott]

Great score, i love me some "vintage" agiles. GC still has a humbucker/old headstock/pointy horn from that same era that's been sitting in my cart for months.

[BatUtilityBelt]

Great score, i love me some "vintage" agiles. GC still has a humbucker/old headstock/pointy horn from that same era that's been sitting in my cart for months.

Thanks. I agree these are great. I also have a black HB based old headstock AL-3000 that stays in Fogerty's D standard tuning these days, and it also sounds great. The good news on the one in your cart is GC's 45 day return policy. That's a long time to decide whether it's one of the better guitars.

[andrewsrea]

HNOGDS!

[BatUtilityBelt]

The knobless one arrived today from Music Go Round in Duluth GA. As with the other AL-2500 Gold Top P90, they cocooned this one very well in bubble wrap and it is unscathed. This one also still has the plastic on the back covers, also on the pick guard as well. It has light wear I didn't see on the other, so I guess the previous owner played this one more. I tuned it up and found it's absolutely a tonal twin of the other, which was my hope. They feel and sound the same, and I couldn't be happier about that. They also share an impressive resonance, but this one is a bit heavier, weighing in at 9 lbs, 15 oz, where the other is 9 lbs, 3 oz. To me that's a subtle difference. I'll give this one the same cleaning and setup. One of the two will get a Duesenberg Les Trem. In a goofy thought, I hoped they had consecutive serial #s, but they're different by a value of 4 (06215 vs 06219). These 2 being my first AL-2500s, I am astonished by the consistency at this build quality. I'm pretty sure the one at Guitar Center is the same exact model, but at $200 more and not in as good condition, I'll leave that one for anyone else to grab up. I'm sure it's still a great guitar. For clarification, I put the witch hat knob on just to see if I'd like those visually. Despite the height, they don't get in the way playing it. Finally, as @tobijohn suggested, there is apparently an Agile/Rondo collector that sells to Music Go Round in Duluth, GA. Lefties should watch that shop if these 2 are any indication.

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[tobijohn]

As you have two identicals, any thoughts about converting one to a Deluxe? I did that with a couple AL-2000s, and someone had already done it to a Dillian GT I have.

[BatUtilityBelt]

As you have two identicals, any thoughts about converting one to a Deluxe? I did that with a couple AL-2000s, and someone had already done it to a Dillian GT I have.

I assume you just mean mini humbuckers instead of the P90s. If that's it, I just can't. These deliver what I consider my ideal P90 tone, at least with my setup, so I don't want to take that away from either of them. But one I will leave original, and the other then might get mods beyond the Les Trem eventually.

[BatUtilityBelt]

Last night I decided today would be the day for one of these twins to get a Duesenberg Les Trem II that has been sitting in its box far too long waiting for the right guitar. They play and sound absolutely alike. I wouldn't be able to tell them apart blindfolded. So the question was whether to make the heavier one yet heavier, or make their weights more similar. I decided the lighter one would get the trem. It only seemed fair. Bottom line, it went from 9 lbs, 3 oz to 9 lbs 8 oz, adding 5 ounces by swapping the tailpiece and bridge (roller saddles). It's still the lighter of the two guitars, but by less now.

So this morning before sunrise, the guitar landed on the bench and underwent a 100% reversible operation. To be honest, I was expecting this mod to reduce the resonance and change the tone and I was just hoping for the best. The Les Trem II swap is a pretty painless (easy) change. It comes with screws to match most post threading, so it's straight forward. Going back together I was reminded that string changes with this trem are more of a pain, but that is an acceptable compromise. The roller bridge meant redoing the bridge height and intonation of course.

Now the strings are still going through their stretch-out period, but I'm ecstatic with this newly tremified guitar. I can't hear any tone change and it has no less resonance than before, so my initial worries were for no good reason. It's not the first guitar I've put a trem on or changed the bridge on, so I don't know why I was concerned. But this just became my favorite of the two twin AL-2500s, and it might just be my favorite Agile overall. Gonna go play it now.

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