Thomann / Harley Benton Experience?

[andrewsrea]

Looking for anyone with Harley Benton experience. Acoustic experience even better.

I am feeling the GAS for a dreadnaught acoustic guitar to compliment my Takamine EF340-S (a nice and old Martin D-18 clone) and am vacillating on different models and brands. Like many folks here, I feel I am hunting a unicorn. I am looking for string balance, tight and present bass (not boomy), warm mids and present but not harsh trebles, and is dynamic. Solid woods and probably not mahogany back and sides. The neck is imperative for feel: a scale between 24.7" and 25.5", a nice 59/60 'C' neck shape, 12" to 14" fingerboard radius, a 42mm to 44mm nut spacing, medium to tall frets. Prefer bone nut, bridge and pins.

I came across the HB CLD-41SE WN which hit a lot of those 'wants.' Starting price is $345 ($318 for a demo model).

Asking from the experienced AGF members:
1.) How was Thomann to deal with / what has been your overall experience with them and Harley Benton products??
2.) Typically, how much do they charge for shipping?
3.) Any experience with shipping with a gigbag or without a case at all?
4.) Any experience with returns? Specifically, does the buyer pay for the return shipping and is it cash back or store credit? Does their 30 days begin
when I receive it?
5.) How long does shipping take?

[tobijohn]

I can't speak to Harley Benton acoustics (or for that matter, any other brand's acoustics) because I don't own any but:

1) I never had to deal with Thomann other than the initial order and to that extent, I've never had a problem. As for build quality, the earlier Chinese ones were comparable to SX but the current Indonesian guitars are unbelievably good (even the pickups), and not just for the price point.

2) My last order was about a year ago or so and it was around $70 but it's the same for two guitars which is why I almost always order two or more at a time.

3) I've never ordered anything with a gig bag or case, but they're packed well enough so that I've never had any damaged in transit.

4) I can't comment on returns as I've almost never bought anything other than b-stocks and never had to return any. Those are physically inspected before listing so the guitars with the most egregious flaws are culled out. However, I recall @BatUtilityBelt had a pretty miserable time with a return, but they now have a Reverb store and some inventory in the US so returns might not be as difficult as before.

5) Shipping has been through UPS (rather than USPS as it was originally) and the last few orders from Germany got here in three days with no customs hassles, just left at the front door like every other package.

[BatUtilityBelt]

Yeah, I might just be unlucky with HB, but I don't think I'll ever give the brand another shot. I tried 2 with bad results.

My first was a CST-24T I bought new from Thomann. It arrived without shipping damage, but had a neck twist that rendered playability or buzz unacceptable. That can happen with any brand, but I think it likely was because they didn't properly cure the wood before making the neck and as it lost more moisture after manufacture, it twisted. That was my guess. But Thomann made the return a nightmare (death by 1000 cuts) experience that lasted months. I finally got my money back but vowed to never give Thomann any more money.

My second was an MS60 I bought used from GC, but it was listed there for almost the same as the new price. Still cheap, I just wanted to give the brand another try without giving Thomann any money directly. That guitar arrived with a broken trem collet. In my opinion, that should be a pretty tough part, not subject to breaking under any normal situation. I returned the guitar to GC instead of replacing the trem because I'd have been into the guitar for more than it was worth.

I haven't seen any other HBs that I'd risk buying since, but other people have happier stories than mine regarding the brand.

[andrewsrea]

I can't speak to Harley Benton acoustics (or for that matter, any other brand's acoustics) because I don't own any but:

1) I never had to deal with Thomann other than the initial order and to that extent, I've never had a problem. As for build quality, the earlier Chinese ones were comparable to SX but the current Indonesian guitars are unbelievably good (even the pickups), and not just for the price point.

2) My last order was about a year ago or so and it was around $70 but it's the same for two guitars which is why I almost always order two or more at a time.

3) I've never ordered anything with a gig bag or case, but they're packed well enough so that I've never had any damaged in transit.

4) I can't speak for returns as I've almost never bought anything other than b-stocks. Those are physically inspected before listing so the guitars with the most egregious flaws are culled out. However, I recall @BatUtilityBelt had a pretty miserable time with a return, but they now have a Reverb store and some inventory in the US so returns might not be as difficult as before.

5) Shipping has been through UPS (rather than USPS as it was originally) and the last few orders from Germany got here in three days with no customs hassles, just left at the front door like every other package.

I figured customs might be a crap shoot and if I interpreted correct, there was no sales taxes (as I suspected). Since these are acoustics, a $40 gig bag may be an ounce of prevention. Pauley Henning (EytschPi42) from YouTube had his mom drop the acoustic off a second story balcony in the gig bag to test the bag for HB and it survived with a few stress cracks on the top of the guitar.

They have a B stock. What was the best and worst B stock condition you experienced?

[tonebender]

I ordered a Harley Benton CLA-15CME about 6 months ago and it is quite nice. It is all mahogany with a cutaway. It does not suit my ear that well sonically, especially compared to my all mahogany Martins. It is well built and seems quite "stiff". I think it will loosen up over time as acoustics do. I would say for the coin, $300, it is well worth what I paid. I have been trying to play it a lot around the house to speed up the break-in process.

The purchase experience was just fine, I went through the US distribution dealio they have set up on Reverb. I play a lot of acoustics in all price ranges. I spent an hour in GC last Sunday playing high end Gibson, Taylor and Martin acoustics. I have also discovered there are currently a lot of really nice playing and sounding acoustics in the $800-$1200 range by various manufacturers. This HB compares nicely with those. It was listed as being make in S Korea but the sticker indicates it was made in China.

I now you said you didn't want mahogany but your description of the preferred tone sounds just like a mahogany quality. It is hard to describe but here is my attempt to relate what I think the difference between a spruce top with rosewood sides and back versus an all mahogany top, back and sides looks like:

1 Spruce Top Lows
2
3 Mahogany Top Lows
4
5 The Mahogany top acoustics seem to have all the sound focused more in the mid range area of the spectrum
6
7
8 Mahogany Top Highs
9
10 Spruce Top Highs

I could talk acoustics all day long. Good luck and as last comment I will say every Epiphone J45 I have played lately sound and played better than the Gibson J45. I think they have aged the wood on the Epi models so it sounds so vintage like an old Gibson. If I do not find a Gibson J45 that I like soon I will be acquiring the Epi version to hold me over.

[andrewsrea]

Thomann made the return a nightmare (death by 1000 cuts) experience that lasted months. I finally got my money back but vowed to never give Thomann any more money.

Did Thomann pay for the return?

[andrewsrea]

I ordered a Harley Benton CLA-15CME about 6 months ago and it is quite nice. The purchase experience was just fine, I went through the US distribution dealio they have set up on Reverb.

I appreciate all the knowledge. With the acoustics that ever came across my bench, my goal was to make them right and get them back to their owners. Some would wow me and some were meh and I never compartmentalized details like I do with electrics, since I had a dreadnaught and an ES125 which worked for me.

So the Reverb shop, you have to buy what they have listed, or can you order through them? The model I want isn't listed.

As far as wood materials, I 100% prefer solid spruce tops. I've played a friend's cedar top and another's mahogany. They are too mellow and compressed for what I am after. I suppose they are great for bluegrass and stuff like Irish Folk music.

I also love mahogany backs and sides, but have that itch scratched with my Takamine.

I remember as a kid, playing 70's Guilds and Martins with rosewood backs and sides (spruce tops) that were gorgeous. I also recall a 60's Gibson with the same materials which was supreme, but don't remember the model. This HB with walnut / spruce sounds a lot like them and the Okoume used in the neck is very close to mahogany. I can live with the Pau Ferro fingerboard, although it isn't my favorite and I am not sold that fingerboards make a huge impact on tone. Radius is another story, as I find the 18" radius and wide nut spacing of classical nylon guitars unbearable.

While we are on the subject, I find that graphite and carbon fiber guitars are not my cup of tea. I just set up a Lava Me guitar and it sounds like a refrigerator drawer with strings.

[tobijohn]

They have a B stock. What was the best and worst B stock condition you experienced?

Best case, I couldn't find anything wrong. Worst case, I couldn't find anything wrong with the guitar's functionality, and any aesthetic flaws were not apparent from a distance over three feet....

[mickey]

Looking for anyone with Harley Benton experience. Acoustic experience even better.

I am feeling the GAS for a dreadnaught acoustic guitar to compliment my Takamine EF340-S (a nice and old Martin D-18 clone) and am vacillating on different models and brands. Like many folks here, I feel I am hunting a unicorn. I am looking for string balance, tight and present bass (not boomy), warm mids and present but not harsh trebles, and is dynamic. Solid woods and probably not mahogany back and sides. The neck is imperative for feel: a scale between 24.7" and 25.5", a nice 59/60 'C' neck shape, 12" to 14" fingerboard radius, a 42mm to 44mm nut spacing, medium to tall frets. Prefer bone nut, bridge and pins.

I came across the HB CLD-41SE WN which hit a lot of those 'wants.' Starting price is $345 ($318 for a demo model).

Asking from the experienced AGF members:
1.) How was Thomann to deal with / what has been your overall experience with them and Harley Benton products??
2.) Typically, how much do they charge for shipping?
3.) Any experience with shipping with a gigbag or without a case at all?
4.) Any experience with returns? Specifically, does the buyer pay for the return shipping and is it cash back or store credit? Does their 30 days begin
when I receive it?
5.) How long does shipping take?

The es-335 clone that I got from you the neck was twisted on thus making it unplayable.
Had I not been on hospice care I would have mentioned it to you in a timely manner.

[BatUtilityBelt]

Thomann made the return a nightmare (death by 1000 cuts) experience that lasted months. I finally got my money back but vowed to never give Thomann any more money.

Did Thomann pay for the return?

They did pay for the return shipping, but they made me shop around for it and send them copies of printed quotes, then they chose the cheapest, which turned out to be USPS. It wasn't the "print a label" situation we're more used to.

[BrianSkeezer]

I answered in the other thread, but I copied it here also:

My experiences with Thomann and Harley Benton guitars have been with electrics and gig bags only. I was gassing for an acoustic bass lately, and they have one at around $150 that I was thinking of getting, but the shipping was around $130 to me, and that took the purchase off my plate.

1. My experiences with Thomann have been great, but I haven't had a problem or needed to return anything. I've had 11 Harley Benton guitars (all electric), and they have ranged from decent to great. Right off the bat, expect sharp fret ends and needing a setup and strings. On one of my purchases, for a prototype HB Amarok Explorer listed as a B-stock, they actually called me to explain what was not exactly right with the guitar and to see if I wanted to wait for a newer version which had different cutouts on the body and whatnot. I thought that was good business. (Completely off-topic: The Thomann Premium Gigbags are great in my opinion!)

2. I have not been charged any taxes or customs for any of my purchases, but things may have changed since my last purchase from them. I really haven't purchased much since the change in shipping charges happened. I really liked that I could buy 3 guitars and some gig bags for the same shipping price. Now, the more you add in the box, the higher the shipping goes, making the purchases not-so-good deals anymore.

3. None of my guitars were shipped in gigbags or cases, even when I purchased gigbags with them. The gigbags were always wrapped up in cellophane and just placed in the outer box with the guitars in their own boxes, also inside the outer box. Every one of the outer boxes that I've received looked like it had gone through multiple car crashes, but, luckily, none of the guitars were damaged. I did have one where it looked like something had punctured through the outer box and into the inner guitar box, but no damage. I usually record all of my unboxings to show all the damage in case I need to make a return claim.

4. Shipping time was between 1-2 weeks to me on the east coast.

5. Fortunately for me, no returns on my end. I know some here have had to do so, and had terrible experiences.

6. You should be able to ask a rep if the guitar has an adjustable truss rod through email. I have an email address of gitarre@thomann.de for questions.

[toomanycats]

I own a Harley Benton CLD-41s.

The other guys seem to have already answered your questions about shipping, returns, and so on.

Keep in mind that I purchased this guitar, along with about 8 or 9 others from the brand, during the great Harley Benton craze on the original AGF forum. I haven't ordered any Bentons since then. I can't believe that was ten years ago. Ten years gone . . . somebody should write a song about that.

Given that a decade has passed, there are no guarantees that a new Harley Benton CLD-41s will be made in the same factory as mine or be of the same quality. That being said, mine is an awesome guitar. Shorty after this Benton acoustic arrived my friend who owns a real Martin D-41 (which he paid a small fortune for) brought it over for sake of comparison. He could barely disguise his disgust. I mean, I think he was really pissed. They sounded equally excellent, with that distinct, booming Martin sound, though with a slightly different timber.

[andrewsrea]

@tobijohn , @BatUtilityBelt , @toomanycats , @BrianSkeezer , @tonebender .

I appreciate all the knowledge and sharing!

I emailed Thomann with some questions, specifically if I don't like it within 30 days, who pays for the return. That and the radius is my biggest concerns right now.

@toomanycats & @tonebender : do you know the fingerboard radius of your HB acoustic and is not, is it extremely flat? Also, I figured out by videos that they have truss rods. Do you know if they are double-action or any good?

I ask because people have bought me budget acoustics, for me to tell them that the truss rod is useless.

[tonebender]

There is a radius and I have no way to measure it. It appears to be close or the same as my Martins. I have not had to adjust the truss rod so not sure but I would assume it is double action.

[toomanycats]

@toomanycats & @tonebender : do you know the fingerboard radius of your HB acoustic and is not, is it extremely flat? Also, I figured out by videos that they have truss rods. Do you know if they are double-action or any good?

I ask because people have bought me budget acoustics, for me to tell them that the truss rod is useless.

I don't have anything for measuring the radius, though your discerning eye will be probably be able to tell what it is from this pic.

[tobijohn]

...I can't believe that was ten years ago. Ten years gone . . . somebody should write a song about that.

Or name a band, maybe Ten Years Before or something like that...

Seriously, I've been thinking the same thing, how the past decade really blew by. It was either March or April of 2014 when I signed up. I was able to save my very first post, I'll try to find it. I still have the first guitar I bought from Rondo ("of course you do"). Actually, I think I still have every guitar I bought from Rondo...

[toomanycats]

...I can't believe that was ten years ago. Ten years gone . . . somebody should write a song about that.

Or name a band, maybe Ten Years Before or something like that...

Seriously, I've been thinking the same thing, how the past decade really blew by. I It was either March or April of 2014 was when I signed up. I was able to save my very first post, I'll try to find it. I still have the first guitar I bought from Rondo ("of course you do"). Actually, I think I still have every guitar I bought from Rondo...

Now you've got me feeling nostalgic of the good old days of Rondo and the early "lawsuit" Harley Benton models. I've still got every one of them too.

[andrewsrea]

@toomanycats & @tonebender : do you know the fingerboard radius of your HB acoustic and is not, is it extremely flat? Also, I figured out by videos that they have truss rods. Do you know if they are double-action or any good?

I ask because people have bought me budget acoustics, for me to tell them that the truss rod is useless.

I don't have anything for measuring the radius, though your discerning eye will be probably be able to tell what it is from this pic.


fullsizeoutput_1022.jpeg

I appreciate the pic and given what @tonebender said about being close to a Martin (which post-war has been 16"), plus info I saw from a discontinued acoustic model which stated 14" radius, I'd say 14" is a good guess. My SX Callisto has a 14" fingerboard and I can cope, although it takes a good 5 minutes of play for me to accommodate.

I appreciate the responses!