New GC direction

[BatUtilityBelt]

Wow, I disagree with almost everything GC's new CEO has to say.

https://www.guitarworld.com/news/guitar ... ceo-future

He says the "gigging artist" is not being served because GC doesn't focus on high end guitars. How many gigging artists does he know? Anyone want to take an R9 to a gig? How about a Duesenberg? I don't gig, but I don't think so. If I gigged, I'd take my versatile cheaper guitars that play well, stay in tune better, and could be replaced because things happen, frequently.

[Tonray's Ghost]

Does this mean we'll get to enjoy some 16 year old shredding on a $6000 Dusenberg thru a Fender Champion 20 in the stores ?

[BatUtilityBelt]

Does this mean we'll get to enjoy some 16 year old shredding on a $6000 Dusenberg thru a Fender Champion 20 in the stores ?

It might. Just make sure you experience it before GC's final bankruptcy.

[Tonray's Ghost]

Does this mean we'll get to enjoy some 16 year old shredding on a $6000 Dusenberg thru a Fender Champion 20 in the stores ?

It might. Just make sure you experience it before GC's final bankruptcy.

I guess I'm confused and pardon me because I haven't been to GC in about 10 years. But didn't they always have a 'high end' room where you could play and test some higher end stuff off the floor, usually only reserved for 'serious' buyers ?

[BatUtilityBelt]

I guess I'm confused and pardon me because I haven't been to GC in about 10 years. But didn't they always have a 'high end' room where you could play and test some higher end stuff off the floor, usually only reserved for 'serious' buyers ?

Depends on what city you visit. Mine only has 2 huge sections and an acoustic room with yet a smaller acoustic room inside that one. Oh, and a practice/lesson room. No cork sniffer room.

[toomanycats]

Does this mean we'll get to enjoy some 16 year old shredding on a $6000 Dusenberg thru a Fender Champion 20 in the stores ?

It might. Just make sure you experience it before GC's final bankruptcy.

I guess I'm confused and pardon me because I haven't been to GC in about 10 years. But didn't they always have a 'high end' room where you could play and test some higher end stuff off the floor, usually only reserved for 'serious' buyers ?

At my local Guitar Denter the most expensive guitars are hanging high up on the wall and require an employee to get them down. It's a good way to keep the paws of the riff raff off of the Gibsons and Fenders while allowing them free rein to maul the Epis and Squiers.

[Tonray's Ghost]

It might. Just make sure you experience it before GC's final bankruptcy.

I guess I'm confused and pardon me because I haven't been to GC in about 10 years. But didn't they always have a 'high end' room where you could play and test some higher end stuff off the floor, usually only reserved for 'serious' buyers ?

At my local Guitar Denter the most expensive guitars are hanging high up on the wall and require an employee to get them down. It's a good way to keep the paws of the riff raff off of the Gibsons and Fenders while allowing them free rein to maul the Epis and Squiers.

Yes....I used to frequent the Guitar Center in East Brunswick NJ, and the expensive stuff was kept high on the wall, but there was also a private room which maybe was for more sound isolation than keeping high end stuff. When they started to have money troubles they even required an employee to bring you a cable and power lead to test an amp on the floor. And he would sit there listen to you for a few minutes and then ask "so why don't we go over to the desk and write up the order ?" That's when I stopped doing anything but going in for some quick accessory.

[mozz]

Higher profit margins is all he is looking for.

[tlarson58]

Hm...

I was thinking about the margin on a $100 strat 'n amp starter pack vs. an Epiphone. Or a Gibson. It's all in volume, I'd guess. It seems as if they're sacrificing volume for bigger margins. Maybe this has nothing to do with the OP but I found it interesting. From a TGP post..

"Overall general markup in a music store on "big ticket item" like a guitar, amp, keyboard, drumset, etc, is roughly 30-40% (usually closer to 30%). Pro Audio is close to 25-30%. Accessories are usually near 50%+.

Used gear is usually bought at 50-60% off what it sells for. "

So new, higher-priced "large" items make more money, right? Why nickle and dime with lower-end gear when the margins are higher for the "good" stuff?

[Tonray's Ghost]

Hm...

I was thinking about the margin on a $100 strat 'n amp starter pack vs. an Epiphone. Or a Gibson. It's all in volume, I'd guess. It seems as if they're sacrificing volume for bigger margins. Maybe this has nothing to do with the OP but I found it interesting. From a TGP post..

"Overall general markup in a music store on "big ticket item" like a guitar, amp, keyboard, drumset, etc, is roughly 30-40% (usually closer to 30%). Pro Audio is close to 25-30%. Accessories are usually near 50%+.

Used gear is usually bought at 50-60% off what it sells for. "

So new, higher-priced "large" items make more money, right? Why nickle and dime with lower-end gear when the margins are higher for the "good" stuff?

Cash flow. Bigger sales items take longer to sell and you have daily bills to pay. Can't wait for those high rollers like @mickey to come in and buy a Gretsch Country Gentleman every day. So you sell a bunch of Squiers and SS amps to Tonray to pay the rude sales guy's salary.

[dabbler]

There are probably other factors being considered too, though. For example, what do you think is the percentage of people who visit their local GC to try out and choose a starter guitar/bass and then go home and order their choice online? But I bet that doesn't happen as often for people seeking "pro" gear.

And yes, I'm aware that GC & MF are related, but if most high end sales occur in a brick and mortar I would probably put more of it in the stores than we tend to see now too.

[golem]

Over time I've gone to mostly higher end gear and usually used or when I can find a good deal. My local GC has some of the worst setup guitars in their high end room. They'll need to a lot better to move their high end stuff.

In my city people would go to Eddie's or Killer Vintage for high end stuff, Mojo's music or Morgan if they're willing to make a drive. Eddie's is appt only and not the friendliest bunch. I tried for weeks once to get an appt and couldn't. KV is decent, but getting a good deal there is difficult. They recently sold Mike a 10 year old Duesenberg that didn't move and it still cost him more than the MSRP in Europe would be. So they certainly have chance if they step up their game.

[andrewsrea]

@BatUtilityBelt "Wow, I disagree with almost everything GC's new CEO has to say." - I agree.

@mozz "Higher profit margins is all he is looking for." - Also agree.

@tlarson58 "It's all in volume, I'd guess. It seems as if they're sacrificing volume for bigger margins." - Yep.

In reading the article and these responses, GC's CEO admitted a 'hail Mary' plan to avoid catastrophic failure.

For as long as I can remember, the successful music store business plan was put out bait and lure in prospective students, provide starter instruments and encouragement so that some of the students become players or future fanboys (volume, like Tommy pointed out). Then upsell as players and fanboys (doctors, lawyers and other professionals) progress, while also luring in the popular players to fill their financial gaps by giving lessons. Thus, starting that system over by attracting and retaining new students.

Focusing on the high dollar / high margin market seems like a 'get rich quick' scheme, to pay down their insurmountable debt. IMHO, with the internet and without the steady stream of students dreaming of someday owning that guitar on the top shelf, or that broad category of gigging guitarists wanting inspiration from yearly new gear purchases, the big manufacturers will just start selling direct.

[glasshand]

I guess I'm confused and pardon me because I haven't been to GC in about 10 years. But didn't they always have a 'high end' room where you could play and test some higher end stuff off the floor, usually only reserved for 'serious' buyers ?

The closest GC to me doesn't have a room like that. There's one in Manhattan that does, but I was massively disappointed the last time I went. The selection in there was was basically barely more expensive versions of the exact same stuff that was on the main floor. They had Marshall Origins in the "high end" room, for example.

I don't know if I agree with the CEO's "gigging artist" comment, but I do see his point about needing to be something other than the McDonald's of guitars.

[tonebender]

I still have an issue taking an expensive guitar to gigs. I was determined to take my new 335 to gigs but after about 10 I found myself being reluctant again. Now it depends on where we are playing. I had all but abandoned my trusty Goldtop the last couple of years. I took it a couple of weeks ago and my wife told me the next day that it was the best sounding guitar of all. She said she had forgotten about how good it sounded. So now I am back on the Goldtop. It became my No.1 when I bought it and somehow I got off track. Ironically it is a Tribute and not the high end the new CEO speaks of but still my favorite LP ever. I have a couple that are more expensive that I have played a lot but it is still the best one to me. I will say this, the other day I played a $5K Gibson acoustic at GC and I understood immediately why it cost so much. As good as some of mine are, they do not compare. I had to put it down and run away before I lightened my wallet. If I did own one, I do not think I would be as reluctant to take it to solo acoustic gigs.

[Chocol8]

With that guy in charge they should be bankrupt in no time. 2-3 years max.

The higher end customer (I am thinking $1.5k to $4K) is looking at guitars on Sweetwater, picking out the specific wood grain and weight, and buying knowing that no one but the Sweetwater employees who inspected, photographed and setup the guitar have touched it. They are not buying from a store known as "Guitar Denter" especially if they take those higher end guitars off the high racks and make them accessible to the idiots who still shop there. The real high end guys buying PRS AA whatever tops and Gibson custom shop relics are never going to be caught dead in a GC!

Gigging musicians will only go into a Guitar Center when something broke, they don't have a spare, and they can't wait for 2 day shipping. Usually that is low dollar stuff like an XLR cable. They haven't shopped in GC for their main gear in 20 years and they are never coming back. Why would they? Why would ANYONE buy guitars, amps and pedals from GC?

So, they will spend a ton of money they don't have to build up higher end inventory that they will damage and seriously devalue for customers who have zero interest in doing business with them. The end result will be bigger cash flow and debt problems, less revenue and lower margins, and an inevitable trip to bankruptcy where only the lawyers win. Woohoo!!!!!

[toomanycats]

Why would ANYONE buy guitars, amps and pedals from GC?

I agree with what you're saying, but to play Devil's advocate, let me justify some recent purchases from Guitar Denter:

* Guitar cords. Initially I got some because I needed them right now. But then I realized that by buying Guitar Denter's house brand cables, which have a lifetime warrantee, I could replace them forever, in the store, no questions asked. They're the last cables I'll ever buy (that is, until Guitar Denter finally does go belly up).

* Power supply for my pedals. Same deal as with my chords, which is to say, I needed it now. On average I go through one of these 9 volt power supplys about twice a year. I find them to be one of the most vulnerable pieces of equipment for a gigging guitarist, as they're not nearly as hardy as a guitar cable or XLR cord, but they get treaded upon with the same frequency. More than once I've found myself needing one at the last minute and had to stop by Guitar Center to get one on the way to the gig.

* My EVH Frankenstein Relic was purchased online from a Guitar Denter location in another city and delivered to my local store. It was a purchase not without incident, as I relay here:

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=3440&p=43365&hilit ... lic#p43365

But I turned out loving the guitar. It was a more expensive instrument under your criteria, being $1650. I risked such a large purchase from Guitar Denter because I knew, for one, that I could return it on the spot if there was anything wrong with it; and secondly, it was already "dented" by design. I mean, how could they screw it up . . . and if they did, how would I know?

[dabbler]

The higher end customer (I am thinking $1.5k to $4K) is looking at guitars on Sweetwater, picking out the specific wood grain and weight, and buying knowing that no one but the Sweetwater employees who inspected, photographed and setup the guitar have touched it. ...

Maybe. I don't spend that kind of money on a single piece of gear. But if I DID I would want to play it BEFORE buying it. AND I wouldn't want the handlers at UPS/FEDEX/USPS bringing it to me, packed and in an anvil case or not.

But that's just me, and like I said, I'm not the market they are after with this move.

[thepezident]

I agree

I agree with your agreement.

[tonebender]

I like Sweetwater for on line purchases but GC for in person purchases. I have a guy there that I have been dealing with since before GC came about. He worked at Mars for years and was my guy there. I like for him to get the commissions, he is a friend and he lives in my community. My father always told me to spend my money locally whenever possible. It is getting harder and harder to do these days. Commerce has really changed since I was a kid. Now buying a gadget from Amazon helps out the thousands of local workers that drive the trucks or work in the distribution hubs. It is a much smaller world now.

[Chocol8]

Why would ANYONE buy guitars, amps and pedals from GC?

I agree with what you're saying, but to play Devil's advocate, let me justify some recent purchases from Guitar Denter:

* Guitar cords. Initially I got some because I needed them right now. But then I realized that by buying Guitar Denter's house brand cables, which have a lifetime warrantee, I could replace them forever, in the store, no questions asked. They're the last cables I'll ever buy (that is, until Guitar Denter finally does go belly up).

* Power supply for my pedals. Same deal as with my chords, which is to say, I needed it now. On average I go through one of these 9 volt power supplys about twice a year. I find them to be one of the most vulnerable pieces of equipment for a gigging guitarist, as they're not nearly as hardy as a guitar cable or XLR cord, but they get treaded upon with the same frequency. More than once I've found myself needing one at the last minute and had to stop by Guitar Center to get one on the way to the gig.

* My EVH Frankenstein Relic was purchased online from a Guitar Denter location in another city and delivered to my local store. It was a purchase not without incident, as I relay here:

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=3440&p=43365&hilit ... lic#p43365

But I turned out loving the guitar. It was a more expensive instrument under your criteria, being $1650. I risked such a large purchase from Guitar Denter because I knew, for one, that I could return it on the spot if there was anything wrong with it; and secondly, it was already "dented" by design. I mean, how could they screw it up . . . and if they did, how would I know?

You are making my point perhaps better and more clearly than I did. Why go to a GC? For things you need right now and for smaller items. I should have added used gear as well! My last GC purchases sound "shockingly" similar to yours! In the last 10 years or so, I have gone to GC for: cables, cable adapters, two emergency 1Spot power supplies(!), and a couple used pedals. I have also looked at used guitars and used amps but haven't pulled the trigger on any from them in a long time.

What I have not even thought about buying from GC in many years are new higher priced guitars or amps. That wasn't always the case. Many years ago I did go in to shop for guitars and spent time playing various examples. I only ended up buying one guitar from them and the experience went well, but my experience the times I did not end up buying will keep me from trying that again in the future. I have had very good luck buying online after being hesitant, and now I am MUCH more comfortable with that model. I have also recently bought a guitar from a local store where the guy waiting on me was the owner...the same owner who sold me my first guitar 37 years earlier! A very different experience than GC!

Anyway, if GC wants to focus on the gigging guitarist, they meed to stock the things a gigging guitarist might need to buy on short notice. It doesn't sound like the CEO even understands what that is. I think they are also going to have to supplement sales by catering to a much larger pool of non-gigging musicians, or they will have to significantly shrink their footprint.

I honestly don't know what I would do to fix the chain if I was CEO. I know it wouldn't be what the new CEO is planning, but I am not sure I have an answer that would work either.

[glasshand]

As far as "why would you buy anything from GC", when I was looking for a new amp, I wanted to actually try it out first. If GC had had something decent that I liked, I absolutely would have bought from them (assuming the price wasn't stupid). Unfortunately for them, their selection was crap. In my town, they had not a single Victory or Friedman, and their selection of Marshalls and Oranges was really poor.

Unfortunately, I think the problem is self-perpetuating, in a way. No store is going to have a selection that can match the internet, particularly for stuff that isn't frequently-bought commodity stuff you're going to need on short notice (like strings, cables, etc.) So people go to the internet for everything else. Therefore the store is less likely to even try to compete with the internet, and the problem compounds.

POSTSCRIPT: And if the question is "yeah, but why GC anyway?", I'd say, "name some other place around here with a decent selection." I visited the majority of decent music stores (that I knew of) in NYC and found one Friedman and zero Victorys.

[glasshand]

This is very timely!

Last weekend, Primus were left without their instruments after all their gear got delayed in transit due to storms. Fortunately, they were still able to play their set at the Sick New World Festival after a local Guitar Center kitted them with new gear.

https://www.guitarworld.com/news/les-cl ... tar-center

[Chocol8]

Those guys are pros, and could have played the set on just about anything! I love the nod to ZZ Top by getting matching guitars!

[nomadh]

Does this mean we'll get to enjoy some 16 year old shredding on a $6000 Dusenberg thru a Fender Champion 20 in the stores ?

It might. Just make sure you experience it before GC's final bankruptcy.

I guess I'm confused and pardon me because I haven't been to GC in about 10 years. But didn't they always have a 'high end' room where you could play and test some higher end stuff off the floor, usually only reserved for 'serious' buyers ?

We have the high end electric room and the Taylor and Martin rooms. All 3 fully locked to the walls now. So basically of no use