0w-16 Car Oil...let's talk

[Tonray's Ghost]

So obviously in the 7 years since I have last owned a car (Subaru Forester) there have been some changes !
Took my car in for it's first service with oil change yesterday to Suzuki dealer here in Thailand. After the service they delivered to me the packaging for the new filter and the motor oil jug (it's a Thai thing to prove they actually used real OEM parts)...but what jumped out right away was the fact that the oil was a fully synthetic 0W-16 weight. I was always used to the standard back in the day of 10w-30 with maybe 10w-40 or even 20w-50 for extreme conditions.

After getting home some research showed that this started inn Japan a few years back and seemingly is the standard (along with 0w-20) now for many small engined cars. Still a little cautious but I guess the engineering is such that these new low viscosity synth oils are designed with the new engines in mind.

Interesting to see how this holds up over time.

Thoughts ?

[bleys21]

I learn something new every day. I've never seen or heard of 0w-16 oil. Hell, most of my kids new(er) cars use 5w-30, which was weird enough to an old timer like me lol

[mozz]

It does help with gas mileage. Only problem i see is it's very light weight, you don't want to get low as i feel more damage would be done sooner than if you used a heavier oil. Me, I'm old school. Our cars call for 5w20 but i'll use 5w30 or 10w30. I've run 15w40 when it's on sale. Change it way before it gets dirty, no matter what the recommended changes are, 7500-10,000 miles is bull. Go 3000-5000 when it's just starting to get dark. So far, no leaks and our 4 cars use no oil between changes.

Synthetic, to me, does not cling to surfaces as well as a heavy straight 30w would. I do not fall for the bullshit that "todays cars have much tighter tolerances than years ago". If that was the case, you would not have class action lawsuits against Subaru and Jeeps where they are burning oil every 500 miles and the dealers are claiming it's normal.

[Tonray's Ghost]

It does help with gas mileage. Only problem i see is it's very light weight, you don't want to get low as i feel more damage would be done sooner than if you used a heavier oil. Me, I'm old school. Our cars call for 5w20 but i'll use 5w30 or 10w30. I've run 15w40 when it's on sale. Change it way before it gets dirty, no matter what the recommended changes are, 7500-10,000 miles is bull. Go 3000-5000 when it's just starting to get dark. So far, no leaks and our 4 cars use no oil between changes.

Synthetic, to me, does not cling to surfaces as well as a heavy straight 30w would. I do not fall for the bullshit that "todays cars have much tighter tolerances than years ago". If that was the case, you would not have class action lawsuits against Subaru and Jeeps where they are burning oil every 500 miles and the dealers are claiming it's normal.

On reading some info one argument for the lower viscosity is the fact that many cars such as mine are passive hybrids with a battery to allow for stop/start automatically when stationery in traffic. The argument goes that the constant stopping and restarting of the engine is benefited by an oil that can more quickly be distributed upon restart. I don't know if I believe any of it outside of manufacturers trying to avoid tariffs due to gas mileage goals.

I'll stick to Suzuki's recommended oils at least thru the initial warranty period, then I'll probably move up to 5w30 after that. Just found the whole topic interesting to say the least.

I might add I turn off the auto stop start every time before heading out..hate that feature..can't be good for an engine that's for sure !

[mozz]

Same here with our Escape, it shuts off every stop sign once warmed up. I also turn that feature off 99% of the time. When you shut a motor off, the coolant temps actually increase due to heat soak. On the Ford forums, they are saying the battery and starter are more heavy duty to account for that. I really doubt the automakers would spend money on that. They only want the ratings of MPG to improve. I've never once got the factory rated MPG though i have come close. Years back you use to get limited life from starters due to engines being harder to start with carburetors. These days you tap the key and it starts right up. I can guarantee the starters are much smaller these days due to them not being overly taxed upon startup. Companies will save every penny.

I also use factory oil and filters when under warranty, you don't want to give them any reason to deny a claim if you do have problems.

[Rollin Hand]

0w20 is the norm for most cars these days, and the cars are designed for it. Both my Sonata and Mrs. Hand's Sienna call for synthetic, and that is what they get, with OEM filters.

Stay on top of checking your oil though. The thinner viscosities get by the rings faster. Combine that with cylinder washing in direct-injected engines, and the oil level can drop faster than most are used to.

[nomadh]

0-16?? So its like canola oil or wd40?
My old chevy 350 in my vette i went up to 20-50 as it got older.

[eicca]

I can't help but wonder if the fuel economy gains of 0W-16 will be offset by the engine burning all that oil and dying much sooner.

Sure, my V8 Lexus doesn't get great MPG, but it doesn't burn a single drop and will stay out of the landfill decades longer than most others.

[Tonray's Ghost]

I can't help but wonder if the fuel economy gains of 0W-16 will be offset by the engine burning all that oil and dying much sooner.

Sure, my V8 Lexus doesn't get great MPG, but it doesn't burn a single drop and will stay out of the landfill decades longer than most others.

There's no indication of any excess oil burning. The first 6 months, the dipstick level remained pretty constant. These new synthetics are a different breed just as the new engine/trans combinations are. 10 years ago when I last bought a new car, a 1.2 litre engine would have been an anemic, choking joke barely able to pull out onto the highway merge. But today, my little 1.2 feels not much different than my old 2.5 Subaru as far as snappy performance and handling. Engineering has come a long way in delivering the goods and I'm guessing since Japanese manufacturers have been using these light viscosity oils for a decade now , they have engineered many of these concerns away

[mozz]

Do you know, well in the US anyway, synthetic was ruled as a marketing term. So your oil may not even be truly synthetic. Mobile 1 was was using that to sell crappier oil, people used to search out for the European Mobile version due to it being real synthetic. This was all true a few years back and the guys on Bob is the oilguy website would set you straight on the real truth.

[Sinster]

Some of our turbofan engines use synthetic and is changed on condition.

0w-16, just flows better Especially in the winter.

[PoodlesAgain]

Isn't there a current Pennzoil advert claiming some renewable content, like some vegetation or like, or did I dream it?
(and if I am dreaming about Pennzoil, oil viscosity is the least of my problems... )

[honyock]

Isn't there a current Pennzoil advert claiming some renewable content, like some vegetation or like, or did I dream it?
(and if I am dreaming about Pennzoil, oil viscosity is the least of my problems... )

I think they had toughted using Natural gas

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

[Tonray's Ghost]

Some of our turbofan engines use synthetic and is changed on condition.

0w-16, just flows better Especially in the winter.

Yeah...here in Thailand....we sometimes get dips down to 65 Fahrenheit in January...break out the coal stove !

[PoodlesAgain]

[

Yeah...here in Thailand....we sometimes get dips down to 65 Fahrenheit in January...break out the coal stove !
[/quote]

Don't you guys move to Singapore in the winter..?

Odd question: are there any bird /insect migrations in this part of the world?

[Tonray's Ghost]

[

Yeah...here in Thailand....we sometimes get dips down to 65 Fahrenheit in January...break out the coal stove !

Don't you guys move to Singapore in the winter..?

Odd question: are there any bird /insect migrations in this part of the world?
[/quote]

We do get different types of birds and insects depending on seasons...so maybe ? Our neighborhood is so much of a bird haven...there is always something flitting around....much to the dismay of my car which has to dodge Gecko poop at night and bird crap during the day....literally have to hose it down every morning and give a thorough wash once a week.

[Rollin Hand]

Do you know, well in the US anyway, synthetic was ruled as a marketing term. So your oil may not even be truly synthetic. Mobile 1 was was using that to sell crappier oil, people used to search out for the European Mobile version due to it being real synthetic. This was all true a few years back and the guys on Bob is the oilguy website would set you straight on the real truth.

To be fair, with the additive packages these days, there isn't much difference. The thing is, you still have to change the oil, even with the extended interval stuff.

My old BMW only was supposed to get an oil change every 15,000 kms or so, if the car determined it was necessary. I still did it at 10,000 and even then I was a bit clenched.

Oddly enough, when the German automakers started going to long oil drain intetvals, they started having sludging and timing chain guide issues. Hmmm......

[Tonray's Ghost]

Do you know, well in the US anyway, synthetic was ruled as a marketing term. So your oil may not even be truly synthetic. Mobile 1 was was using that to sell crappier oil, people used to search out for the European Mobile version due to it being real synthetic. This was all true a few years back and the guys on Bob is the oilguy website would set you straight on the real truth.

To be fair, with the additive packages these days, there isn't much difference. The thing is, you still have to change the oil, even with the extended interval stuff.

My old BMW only was supposed to get an oil change every 15,000 kms or so, if the car determined it was necessary. I still did it at 10,000 and even then I was a bit clenched.

Oddly enough, when the German automakers started going to long oil drain intetvals, they started having sludging and timing chain guide issues. Hmmm......

Must be that darned Russian oil...Putin always 'mucking' up something....

[PoodlesAgain]

Oddly, all my past Toyota's (now fourth), mostly on the old-school dino intervals, started to feel a tat sluggish, sounded a little odd near the end of interval.

Now with the 2012 base Tacoma, that does not even have intermittent wipers, thanks to bean counters, I just don't care.

[Tonray's Ghost]

Oddly, all my past Toyota's (now fourth), mostly on the old-school dino intervals, started to feel a tat sluggish, sounded a little odd near the end of interval.

Now with the 2012 base Tacoma, that does not even have intermittent wipers, thanks to bean counters, I just don't care.

I had a '67 Mustang (straight 6..best engine ever made)..with intermittent wipers..and headlights,and starter, and alternator..

[tonebender]

I do not even pretend to know anything about cars these days. Back in the day I did most all of my own work but no more. I still do a few things on some of the motorcycles in the garage but even those have gotten a little to high tech for me. BTW they all use synthetic these days.

[Raindog]

Today's modern oil scene is pretty even. Pick what your manufacturer recommends and use a brand-name oil. I find that, what few people pay attention to, and of much more importance, is the filter. They may look similar but they aren't. A big difference is the bypass valve and, at what pressure it opens and allows oil to pass the filter material. When I worked in R&D for Harley-Davidson, we studied filters a lot. I've also read many lab reports performed by independent labs. Believe it or not, one of the most consistently high scoring filters are those by Amsoil. And their synthetic motorcycle oil is all that I used in my bike. I have no stake in them (not a dealer) but just a believer.

[andrewsrea]

Kind of ironic I found this thread, as I was just having this debate with myself yesterday when changing my wife's 2019 Rav4 Hybrid's oil for the 1st time (previously was a free service from the dealer).

Until you rack up miles, and IMHO you can't go wrong with the dealership brand oil at the recommended weight mix. Volkswagen oil and its few off-brands, have higher filtration standards (before bottling) and is required to maintain warranty. I had a VW Diesel TDI for years and think it was typical German over engineering to ensure 10K oil change frequency.

That said, the Japan 0w-16 mix is designated to sell more dealership oil and get you dependent on dealership servicing. Fully synthetic 0w-20 is basically the same thing.

Related, I've been changing my oil & filter annually, as we are no longer putting 10K per year on our cars. My Prius is averaging <2.5K miles per year and the RAV4 about 7.5 (thank God, with the price of gas!)

[Tonray's Ghost]

Kind of ironic I found this thread, as I was just having this debate with myself yesterday when changing my wife's 2019 Rav4 Hybrid's oil for the 1st time (previously was a free service from the dealer).

Until you rack up miles, and IMHO you can't go wrong with the dealership brand oil at the recommended weight mix. Volkswagen oil and its few off-brands, have higher filtration standards (before bottling) and is required to maintain warranty. I had a VW Diesel TDI for years and think it was typical German over engineering to ensure 10K oil change frequency.

That said, the Japan 0w-16 mix is designated to sell more dealership oil and get you dependent on dealership servicing. Fully synthetic 0w-20 is basically the same thing.

Related, I've been changing my oil & filter annually, as we are no longer putting 10K per year on our cars. My Prius is averaging <2.5K miles per year and the RAV4 about 7.5 (thank God, with the price of gas!)

As to dealership service, here in Thailand, not sure you can trust anybody but the dealership and service fees are generally pretty reasonable. Most people, especially if buying a car new, will use the dealership for service for the life of the vehicle and I plan to do the same. The Japanese manufacturers make sure that service levels are a high standard and for example, I had a minor transmission code display when I first got the car, dealer reset it a couple of times and still no fix, I called Suzuki of Thailand and they sent a tech right to the dealer the next morning no questions asked and reflashed the software for the CVT computer and fixed it right off. That's sevice with a smile.