UPDATE Tubes - get em while you can

[andrewsrea]

UPDATE from EHX 3/16/22:

Attention All EHX Tube Customers

The export restriction on Russian tubes has been resolved for now. We are accepting new orders, processing backorders, and hoping to resume shipping in April. Priority will be given to the oldest orders.

Considering various economic pressures, we must raise our wholesale prices. This price increase, to be announced separately, will apply to all back- and new orders. Also, there will likely be a further price increase once the U.S. implements heightened tariffs against Russian goods.

You can cancel any backorder, but we do not recommend this; there is a tremendous shortage of tubes.

Mike Matthews


Tubes are either made in Russia, Eastern Europe or China.

I just received an email from Electro-harmonix. Until further notice, they will not be able to supply their tubes (Sovtek, Mullard, Gold Lion, EH, EH Gold, Svetlana & Tung Sol. In response to world sanctions, Russia will not allow the ones made there to be exported. It also sounds like they are having financial trouble again:

"Given this export ban, we will not be receiving any further tube inventory for these brands. A myriad of pressures — including continued strains on the supply chain, escalating internal expenses, mounting inflation, and an ever-evolving legal landscape (particularly in light of the Ukraine conflict) — have created a very fluid and ambiguous environment. Until we can properly assess the impact of these factors, we will not honor any new orders or ship any more Russian tubes on back order."

Sad, as I found EHX tubes to be better at providing sound, consistency & reliability over any other brands.

Since JJ's are made in Slovakia (borders on Ukraine) I am wondering if they will be able to affordably supply their tubes.

With reduced competition I expect JJ & Shuguang (Chinese) tubes to increase in price. If you are a fan of the EHX brands, buy them while you can.

[redman]

Wow @andrewsrea I guess we should have saw this coming. I remember when there was an electronics repair shop on every corner and there was a huge supply store called Southeastern Electronics on Patton Ave a local business area, we hit them in the mornings for parts coffee and chit chat. When RCA packed up and left for Jersey, I went to work in the TV repair business for a while took a job with Lowe's a large chain of building supply and hardware stores, they also sold consumer electronics TV's Stereo's and such as well as appliances and lawnmowers. I worked at the Asheville store it was where their repair facility for 3 counties Buncombe, Haywood and Henderson with about 12 or so stores between them was located an electronics repair shop, appliance repair shop and small engine repair shop. We bought everything from Southeastern tubes, diodes, resistors, caps they had whatever you needed in stock except for specialty parts we had to get from the manufacturer.

[slowhand84]

Tubes are either made in Russia, Eastern Europe or China.

I just received an email from Electro-harmonix. Until further notice, they will not be able to supply their tubes (Sovtek, Mullard, Gold Lion, EH, EH Gold, Svetlana & Tung Sol. In response to world sanctions, Russia will not allow the ones made there to be exported. It also sounds like they are having financial trouble again:

"Given this export ban, we will not be receiving any further tube inventory for these brands. A myriad of pressures — including continued strains on the supply chain, escalating internal expenses, mounting inflation, and an ever-evolving legal landscape (particularly in light of the Ukraine conflict) — have created a very fluid and ambiguous environment. Until we can properly assess the impact of these factors, we will not honor any new orders or ship any more Russian tubes on back order."

Sad, as I found EHX tubes to be better at providing sound, consistency & reliability over any other brands.

Since JJ's are made in Slovakia (borders on Ukraine) I am wondering if they will be able to affordably supply their tubes.

With reduced competition I expect JJ & Shuguang (Chinese) tubes to increase in price. If you are a fan of the EHX brands, buy them while you can.

Pretty glad I just got my 76 Hiwatt fully serviced and retubed a few months ago...should get a good 10 years out of it before it needs any new tubes and hopefully things will be different by then.

[JimyTheAssassin]

Ya I saw this too. A week ago I had been planning but hadn’t pulled the trigger yet on some essential backups. Seeing that from EHX yesterday made me act immediately. I realized I have 3 EL34 amps but not one backup set. Granted I could always swap a good pair around them in hard times, but I’d prefer to stave that off. Pickings have gotten noticeably slimmer though as everyone realizes what’s brewing. Preamp tubes are especially thin.

No doubt, prices and supply will be unpredictable for the foreseeable future of new production. Old used and NOS may soon follow. I envision something akin to the car crisis as a parallel to Empty lots. I imagine this will hit the music industry in a number of ways besides tubes. Amps waiting for tubes (like cars waiting for computer chips). I guess it depends on how long it goes on for.

All in all though I feel pretty fortunate to have time to entertain such a 1st world problem. The hardship being faced in Ukraine is just horrible.


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[golem]

I can already see they're impossible to order from Sweetwater.

[JimyTheAssassin]

The selection at some places has dwindled quickly. Reverb and eBay still appear to have many willing sellers. And some of the lesser known or thought of shops have stock I found. Prices however are a wild card. Some have increased substantially and other haven’t yet.

I suppose another take away is I will be paying more attention to voltages in my amps and how hard tubes are running. I have a variac but it might be time to build a more portable brown box too.


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[mickey]

Every time I see this thread I think the title ought to be: Tubes - get em while they're hot!

[golem]

The selection at some places has dwindled quickly. Reverb and eBay still appear to have many willing sellers. And some of the lesser known or thought of shops have stock I found. Prices however are a wild card. Some have increased substantially and other haven’t yet.

I suppose another take away is I will be paying more attention to voltages in my amps and how hard tubes are running. I have a variac but it might be time to build a more portable brown box too.


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If you've got a lead let me know. I'm not desperate per se, but I could use a few AX7, an AT7, and some el34 and 6l6s for the amps I got. Not planning on hoarding but getting enough for one replacement set for each of the few tube amps I have.

[JimyTheAssassin]

Doug’s tubes seemed to still have stock but he’s been inundated with orders so I can only presume his stock is accurate. I ordered power tubes from fliptops.net which is an Ampeg restoration business based in buffalo NY. The owner is very nice and is reachable by phone also if you need something special.

Now is a good time to shop at mom and pop shops too. I see reverb and eBay still flush with listings but it will definitely change seeing all the upward pressures. I have found listings reasonable on Etsy also. On Etsy I found a listing with very modestly priced vintage 12ay7 and I grabbed a trio.

Honestly some people are still not aware or not caring to raise their prices. Others have them jacked way up. Some vendors are double 2 weeks ago.

As for 12ax7 tubes, I have been casually digging for these at second hand shops, antique shows and garage sales for years. Anytime I see someone with vintage gear at decent prices, I ask if they have more. I’ve made a few contacts with business clearing out homes or individuals with their own private collection to liquidate. Many of them could care less about the market fluctuations as long as the price is fair and they can pay the bills. I usually offer $1-2 on a boxed untested tube and less on a pull. My max on something really special or a power tube would be near $5. However anyone who follows the marker or sells online will probably be too pricey. Just move on to the next guy in that case.

Tubes I never see in the antique market are el34, 6ca7 and the like. These big power tubes just seem to be absent anywhere I look. So I focused on buying them just now. 6v6 are plentiful. 6l6 somewhat. And most preamp tubes aren’t hard to find especially 12ax7 at7 and au7. I have found some great ones by recognizing the construction despite the missing labels.


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[andrewsrea]

The selection at some places has dwindled quickly. Reverb and eBay still appear to have many willing sellers. And some of the lesser known or thought of shops have stock I found. Prices however are a wild card. Some have increased substantially and other haven’t yet.

I suppose another take away is I will be paying more attention to voltages in my amps and how hard tubes are running. I have a variac but it might be time to build a more portable brown box too.


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Just be careful of 'NOS'. That was a real thing in the early 90's when the government was scuttling their bases and reducing their logistics centers. Hundreds of thousands of old but unused tubes flooded the market, mostly made in the 60's. Now it is mostly used tubes and scams.

The eastern Europeans, including Russia, did the same 5 years ago as you can find really good military spec EL-84 equivalents (6P14P).

[BatUtilityBelt]

I imagine if a shortage lasts long enough, one of several possible remedies will crop up. Perhaps a boutique industry of new tube makers, or tube "reconditioners" may become a thing. Either of those would help maintain the integrity of tube gear. A third option that makes me shudder a bit would be solid state tube replacements - also possible, but I can't see that being a good thing.

[glasshand]

Well, looks like I'll be hanging on to my solid state amps for a while! @BatUtilityBelt I had a similar idea - I wonder how hard it it to set up a new plant to make tubes, perhaps in Mexico or something. Probably harder than is worthwhile, honestly. The solid state tube replacements already exist to some limited extent:
https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/v ... 5B646%5D=1
https://jetcitycustom.com/pedals-and-retrovalves/

[BatUtilityBelt]

Well, looks like I'll be hanging on to my solid state amps for a while! @BatUtilityBelt I had a similar idea - I wonder how hard it it to set up a new plant to make tubes, perhaps in Mexico or something. Probably harder than is worthwhile, honestly. The solid state tube replacements already exist to some limited extent:
https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/v ... 5B646%5D=1
https://jetcitycustom.com/pedals-and-retrovalves/

I had no idea any solid state tube replacements already existed in any form, I was just guessing based on likely feasibility. As for setting up real tube manufacturing, it would be very specialized, but not particularly high tech. A modern facility could do a lot better than one from last century. But yeah, it would still be quite expensive and only worth it if the current manufacturers are definitely not going to rebound.

[mickey]

I had no idea any solid state tube replacements already existed in any form, I was just guessing based on likely feasibility. As for setting up real tube manufacturing, it would be very specialized, but not particularly high tech. A modern facility could do a lot better than one from last century. But yeah, it would still be quite expensive and only worth it if the current manufacturers are definitely not going to rebound.

Back in the 1970's AT&T had mostly tube type equipment & as the first part of the transition to solid state we replaced thousands of vacuum tubes with solid state replacements, within a few years all that stuff had been replaced by all solid state equipment. At the same time we were replacing analog equipment with digital. This not only cut the draw on power but increasing the capacity of the equipment, meaning we could carry more traffic by the switch to digital.
In other words, solid state tube replacements are nothing new.

Incidentally, ignore ALL WECO (Western Electric Co.) tubes because they ALL have 48VDC filaments.

[mozz]

For power output tubes, you won't really find any solid state replacements but there are some around. For small signal tubes, yes, don't know if you can still buy these retro valves, the website is gone. And i see these now i look further. And there are solid state rectifiers, know as diodes. They make a plug in 5y3 5u4gb, i often use them for testing, not the Weber ones!

I should get my ass in gear and buy up some 5881's before you can't get them.

[JimyTheAssassin]

The selection at some places has dwindled quickly. Reverb and eBay still appear to have many willing sellers. And some of the lesser known or thought of shops have stock I found. Prices however are a wild card. Some have increased substantially and other haven’t yet.

I suppose another take away is I will be paying more attention to voltages in my amps and how hard tubes are running. I have a variac but it might be time to build a more portable brown box too.


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Just be careful of 'NOS'. That was a real thing in the early 90's when the government was scuttling their bases and reducing their logistics centers. Hundreds of thousands of old but unused tubes flooded the market, mostly made in the 60's. Now it is mostly used tubes and scams.

The eastern Europeans, including Russia, did the same 5 years ago as you can find really good military spec EL-84 equivalents (6P14P).

Ya I don’t feel there’s much meaning behind NOS unless the box is clearly tamper proof and unopened or the seller has test results they’re willing to share and stand behind with an acceptable return policy. Still for private sellers I consider it at least a small gamble, so the price needs to be worth it.

When people say simply “tests strong” and nothing more, I’m lead to believe the the truth is somewhere between them plugging it into an amp and using a tube checker, not a transconductance tester. Buyer beware eh!

I don’t care if a tube is used some, as long as it operates well. It seems like conventional wisdom to change preamp tubes often, but I don’t see them wear out in my amps. Are new amps eating tubes or is it just a selling gimmick?


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[andrewsrea]

The selection at some places has dwindled quickly. Reverb and eBay still appear to have many willing sellers. And some of the lesser known or thought of shops have stock I found. Prices however are a wild card. Some have increased substantially and other haven’t yet.

I suppose another take away is I will be paying more attention to voltages in my amps and how hard tubes are running. I have a variac but it might be time to build a more portable brown box too.


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Just be careful of 'NOS'. That was a real thing in the early 90's when the government was scuttling their bases and reducing their logistics centers. Hundreds of thousands of old but unused tubes flooded the market, mostly made in the 60's. Now it is mostly used tubes and scams.

The eastern Europeans, including Russia, did the same 5 years ago as you can find really good military spec EL-84 equivalents (6P14P).

Ya I don’t feel there’s much meaning behind NOS unless the box is clearly tamper proof and unopened or the seller has test results they’re willing to share and stand behind with an acceptable return policy. Still for private sellers I consider it at least a small gamble, so the price needs to be worth it.

When people say simply “tests strong” and nothing more, I’m lead to believe the the truth is somewhere between them plugging it into an amp and using a tube checker, not a transconductance tester. Buyer beware eh!

I don’t care if a tube is used some, as long as it operates well. It seems like conventional wisdom to change preamp tubes often, but I don’t see them wear out in my amps. Are new amps eating tubes or is it just a selling gimmick?


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New amps treat tubes the same as old ones for the most part. Unless they are defective, preamp tubes can be reliable and sound great for decades.

Marshall & Fender factory settings (and those who copy them) purposefully run their output tubes cold (over-biased) to ensure reputation on amp reliability (less tube failure). Overbiased tubes can last a long time.

However, output tubes definitely sound more alive and work with you as a musician, hotter (I call it less constipated). Each amp has a sweet spot, which is hotter than factory and less than max plate dissipation. But, hotter means faster wear and the output tubes will lose tone gradually. You may only notice it when you plug in a new set.

Last, playing often and at levels where the amp is alive can shorten tube live very fast. When I was gigging my EL-34's and 6L6's were lasting a year and the EL-84's & 6V6's about 6 to 9 months (I'd alternate amps appropriate for gigs and practices, playing at band level 5 days a week). i'd get on the smaller amps more than the bigger ones.

[andrewsrea]

Well, looks like I'll be hanging on to my solid state amps for a while! @BatUtilityBelt I had a similar idea - I wonder how hard it it to set up a new plant to make tubes, perhaps in Mexico or something. Probably harder than is worthwhile, honestly. The solid state tube replacements already exist to some limited extent:
https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/v ... 5B646%5D=1
https://jetcitycustom.com/pedals-and-retrovalves/

I had no idea any solid state tube replacements already existed in any form, I was just guessing based on likely feasibility. As for setting up real tube manufacturing, it would be very specialized, but not particularly high tech. A modern facility could do a lot better than one from last century. But yeah, it would still be quite expensive and only worth it if the current manufacturers are definitely not going to rebound.

@ golem gave me one of the Jetcity ones. They are FET based, so they break-up like a good pedal. The compression and feel wasn't as good as a vacuum tube.

[JimyTheAssassin]

I have a “blue” retro valve and I have to admit it surprised me. The quality as mentioned didn’t entirely mimic a good 12ax7, but it wasn’t bad. Honestly I have had some cheaper 12ax7 tubes sound worse. But I do agree that some of the tactile qualities didn’t quite arrive in the same way. Maybe I was being overly critical, but I suppose that’s what we do . If in the future these a more budget type replacement compared to the price of an “analog” 12ax7, then they might be on to something. The original price didn’t make any sense at the time though. Also I recall there were limits in where they could be used in a circuit or what types allowed their correct operation. The limits are also a negative factor unfortunately


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[JimyTheAssassin]

Just a cursory look around, many retailers are cleaned out (or nearly) of common tube types (where’s all the 12ax7 tubes?). A few have some but prices have generally inflated by twice or more. Others have disclaimers about contact before ordering. There’s probably a max quantity limit. It’s like toilet paper all over again .

This took like what, one or two weeks to catch fire? And the news isn’t great for amp makers either from what I’ve seen. Their tube supplies have increased in cost significantly as many have also rushed to secure stock piles. The russian import ban will last till the end of the calendar year (I have read but not verified). JJ meanwhile will need a lead time of 6 months to a year to fulfill new orders. All this also remains a fluid situation that could see further disruption.

So I realize many of us are probably feeling a little pinch from the sudden drying up of options or backups, but manufacturers are really feeling the bite now. At least this seems apparent from posts I’ve seen from a few smaller amp makers. I have no idea if other big companies have what they need on hand to weather this.

I have a few predictions though. The used tube market is going to dry up of deals very soon as purchasing shifts from retail markets to other softer market places. The listings will quickly escalate in price from here forward on some common types previously imported from Russia. Then when those go up, so to will all the substitutes that are less commonly know, including bad subs because people will be grabbing anything they can get their hands on. Just a prediction, not intended to raise panic

A second prediction; China will suddenly and mysteriously start selling “rebranded” tubes that look an awful lot like the Russian tubes that can no longer be imported from Russia to the U.S.


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[BatUtilityBelt]

A second prediction; China will suddenly and mysteriously start selling “rebranded” tubes that look an awful lot like the Russian tubes that can no longer be imported from Russia to the U.S.

I agree with most of the above. On this last point, I think China is just as likely to suddenly start creating knockoffs and take more of the profit.

[Houblues]

Here is another possible source. Although he claims to be local, I known nothing of him, so be cautious.


https://www.facebook.com/groups/2009005339280149/

[mozz]

FS: Tube Hoard, 65,000 +/- tubes

https://antiqueradios.com/forums/viewto ... 5&t=410394
The photos are up now at https://www.bbtvtestequipment.com/tube- ... #TUBEHOARD

That being said, i just ordered some 5755 tubes from amplified parts, $5 each, real close spec to a 5751/12ax7. You can get adaptors for the tube to 12ax7. Also thought about doing amp conversions for people which would involve rewiring the sockets to a cheaper tv style tube, such as our secret 6gk6, 6bg6 and others.

[golem]

@mozz do you have a link for an adaptor you've tried and trust?

[JimyTheAssassin]

A second prediction; China will suddenly and mysteriously start selling “rebranded” tubes that look an awful lot like the Russian tubes that can no longer be imported from Russia to the U.S.

I agree with most of the above. On this last point, I think China is just as likely to suddenly start creating knockoffs and take more of the profit.

Ya it’s total speculation since Russia tube makers will still have channels to sell in China and China (as of this time) hasn’t been sanctioned or banned by the US yet. Call me crazy but if I was in Russia, I might be trying to barter a deal here.

Shungang in China has been shutdown and there’s conflicting conversations about their restarting operations. Maybe soon, maybe never, and maybe the do but many of their top people left so where does that leave therm? But I agree, if they can, then then will prefer making max profit.

UPDATE; the president of Electro-Harmonix (mike I think️) said they have a deal worked out to make sure tubes make it here both to fill back orders and to then continue resupply retailers next. Eta is April-ish for this to all start sorting out. No details were given how they’re getting around the ban. If I see anything more I’ll pass it along.


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