Bean Counters

[mickey]

Yes, but, who doesn't resent it when you read your CEO is making 38,000 times what you are?

The easy solution to that is to not work for a big company. The CEO of my company isn’t making that much more than the average employee. Adjusted for age and experience, it’s less than 2x similar people in non-executive roles and about 10x the youngest guys we just hired. I wouldn’t want his hours and stress for the money he is making.

That was intended to be sorta amusing.
In truth, shortly before I retired (from AT&T) I learned our CEO was making slightly more than $38,000 PER HOUR if you figure a 40 hour week.
I realize those guys don't work a 40 hour week, but nobody except maybe a pro quarterback is worth that sort of money.

[Chocol8]

Yeah, probably more like “only” $12,000-$14,000 per hour of work. Now if I could get that for 10-15 hours a week, I would be super happy!

[BatUtilityBelt]

The easy solution to that is to not work for a big company. The CEO of my company isn’t making that much more than the average employee. Adjusted for age and experience, it’s less than 2x similar people in non-executive roles and about 10x the youngest guys we just hired. I wouldn’t want his hours and stress for the money he is making.

It is not that easy to not work for a big company. The last company I worked for was a startup, but we made it so successful that it was bought by the 27th largest company in the world, and boom - I was a principal in a big company, hating the politics and greed. The exit strategy of most founders is to sell the company for as much as they can, so yes, they're in the same game. It is all about the money, not the community, and startups tend to not be able to pay well.

[BatUtilityBelt]

Consumers aren't born, they're made.

I think this is the truest statement in the entire thread. While I was only posting about one aspect (crippled supply chain), the conversation spread out and started involving many other aspects of "free trade". But the point above is poignant. You can't blame people with barely enough to eek by for picking their lowest cost options.

[uwmcscott]

It is all about the money, not the community, and startups tend to not be able to pay well.

I lost my job in 2020 and finished my MBA in 2021, so I"ve been doing a lot of job seeking/inquiry. I was fortunate to find a good job right away after I got laid off ( before I even left actually ) so I'm not searching now because I NEED a job, but because I want to find a great job next.

I would argue that this is probably one of the best job seekers markets that there has been in a long time. And I think you would be very surprised at how many good opportunities are available at small/medium businesses too. If you read the news, it's all doom and gloom and rich vs poor, but there are a tremendous amount of people out doing really innovative things in many sectors of the economy. And in some cases the pay is even better as it's much easier for a small company to re-allocate resources when needed than a big one can.

[BatUtilityBelt]

I lost my job in 2020 and finished my MBA in 2021, so I"ve been doing a lot of job seeking/inquiry. I was fortunate to find a good job right away after I got laid off ( before I even left actually ) so I'm not searching now because I NEED a job, but because I want to find a great job next.

I would argue that this is probably one of the best job seekers markets that there has been in a long time. And I think you would be very surprised at how many good opportunities are available at small/medium businesses too. If you read the news, it's all doom and gloom and rich vs poor, but there are a tremendous amount of people out doing really innovative things in many sectors of the economy. And in some cases the pay is even better as it's much easier for a small company to re-allocate resources when needed than a big one can.

Like you, I don't actually need a job, but I am somewhat bored with retirement. The market judges us by only our last job, so small companies are afraid of looking at me, thinking I'm overqualified and would just jump to something bigger given the opportunity. I can't blame them for thinking that because I know a lot of people who would, but I seriously hate working at big companies - I am about the work, not the politics. So I am currently looking at what I can do with my own startup, and that is promising so far - nothing actually guitar related tho.

[uwmcscott]

Like you, I don't actually need a job, but I am somewhat bored with retirement. The market judges us by only our last job, so small companies are afraid of looking at me, thinking I'm overqualified and would just jump to something bigger given the opportunity. I can't blame them for thinking that because I know a lot of people who would, but I seriously hate working at big companies - I am about the work, not the politics. So I am currently looking at what I can do with my own startup, and that is promising so far - nothing actually guitar related tho.

You should look into consulting - i took a 6 month gig in between my last job and current one and it was a great experience. You get to dive into a problem/project and for the most part your expertise is looked up to as you were brought in as a subject matter expert, but you don't have to deal with much of the tedious organizational stuff. And if you are retired and have a solid insurance/benefit footing, you can make some serious cash on a straight hourly rate.

[BatUtilityBelt]

You should look into consulting - i took a 6 month gig in between my last job and current one and it was a great experience. You get to dive into a problem/project and for the most part your expertise is looked up to as you were brought in as a subject matter expert, but you don't have to deal with much of the tedious organizational stuff. And if you are retired and have a solid insurance/benefit footing, you can make some serious cash on a straight hourly rate.

For 7 years of my career, I ran my own shop. It started out as consulting, then added fellows, then moved to self-funded projects. I strongly agree consultants get to avoid the lion's share of the politics, and the money was easy. What I did not like was hustling for the next contract - I hate sales. But when we evolved into doing our own projects, that was the best shop of my career, so I want to revisit that.

[Mossman]

Consumers aren't born, they're made.

I think this is the truest statement in the entire thread. While I was only posting about one aspect (crippled supply chain), the conversation spread out and started involving many other aspects of "free trade". But the point above is poignant. You can't blame people with barely enough to eek by for picking their lowest cost options.

That's certainly a big part of it. We all like getting more for less, regardless of financial status. That's human nature... But it's not that alone. We're conditioned and encouraged from the moment we're born to want shiny things we don't need, to chase status, to live beyond our means, to view possessions as intrinsically tied to our identity, to judge others according to what kind of car they drive, what kind of phone they have, what kind of house they live in, etc, and to judge ourselves as less-than for not having those things. We're not born highly prioritizing the acquisition of possessions. We're taught to aspire to them, and to feel the pain of shame if we don't have the biggest, fastest, newest whatever that everybody else has. The problem is; it's a vicious cycle. The thrill of acquisition is fleeting, and it's not long before we're in pursuit of something else that we can't live without. As a person who knows a thing or two about the mechanics of addiction, the pathology seems identical to me. This glitch in human psychology - as well as many others - are well known, and used to full extent to manipulate us.

As a result, we make ourselves slaves in pursuit of the money that will get us the things that we think will make us happy. But there is no thing that can make you happy. We're just brainwashed into believing that happiness can be bought. I know I'm not saying anything particularly revelatory or insightful here. We all know how advertising works, and that they use psychological tricks and play on our emotions, but the pernicious thing is; knowing how you're being manipulated doesn't make you impervious to manipulation. It's designed to get past your critical thinking, and as long as you're being exposed to it, you're suggestible in ways that you're not even conscious of. The worse thing is; it's not just advertising (and the "evil corporations") that perpetuate consumerism. It's our entire culture. We're inculcated in it, from movies, to magazines, to TV shows, to celebrities, to your co-workers, to your own mom and dad... I got the whole: "work is the most important thing in life" speech from my dad. He taught me that if you work hard, and sacrifice, and make a lot of money for your employer, then you'll have a happy life. It didn't matter if you hated it, as long as it paid a lot of money. Enjoying your occupation was irrelevant to him. When I was in my 20s, I was a poor graphic artist, and my father hated that fact. He would frequently tell me what other (higher-paying) professions I should have chosen, and when I would say: "I don't think I would enjoy doing that", he would say: "You're not supposed to enjoy it... They wouldn't call it 'work' if you liked it". My father worked far too many hours at jobs that he hated, and missed far too much of his life. He never made a whole lot of money, and I don't know if he was ever happy, or even knew what that was. He was only 57 when he died.

[andrewsrea]

It might feel good to blame the CEO’s and the 1% ers but the math doesn’t add up. Each CEO made a lot of money but there are very few of them. All CEO pay combined is a tiny drop in the bucket. There is a reason average inflation had stubbornly stayed below Fed targets for more than 20 years. It’s because a lot of cost savings and efficiency was being passed on to consumers due to competition. The Internet made comparison shopping so easy, people will buy the cheaper product from the cheaper supplier to save $1 on a $100 purchase. Consumer behavior drove the businesses to do what they had to do to survive, and for most it has been compete on price, price, and price. Outside of tech companies and a few other industries, margins went down not up, including margins before CEO pay.

So yeah, we all saw lower prices from just in time supply chains and importing products, components, and materials from cheaper Asian countries just like we demanded. We are seeing higher prices and delays now, but it is still way less than what we all saved over the last 20+ years. I am sorry if that doesn’t fit everyone’s political narratives, but reality rarely does.

Yes, but, who doesn't resent it when you read your CEO is making 38,000 times what you are?

It is hard for the typical person to put their head in the space of: "That CEO could have been me. And if so, would I resent myself?"

America is one of only countries that a guy writing a program to resell books (Besos) becomes the richest man in the world in less than two decades. America is also the place where the person who does that is resented for proving the American dream.

I've been working since I was 8 or 9 years old, been poor and sweated my way up to a comfortable life. I had a mentor who advised me not to judge the unfortunate, nor envy those better off than me. He said it will never help my own situation. Sage advice which has help me be satisfied with all I've been blessed with.

[nomadh]

The new AGFF. A Guitar Filosophers Forum. Phonetically speaking. Or is it fonetically speaking?
Great thoughts all. I see this country being stretched and twisted to the point of breaking currently. It is true that its getting very hard to survive for the lower classes and the middle is going down fast. Its true that there is an inherent bias for the rich to get richer while the rest of us just keep getting old. The left and the right have their own set of facts which are almost to the point of having no overlap and are becoming completely opposite. With no common ground I don't see how the US continues. At best I vote for people who I agree with maybe 20% just to stop the ones I agree with 2%. At some point it gets real hard to believe our leadership can be this incompetent accidentally. We have a huge shipping backlog but CA made it basically illegal to allow indy truckers to haul here. The longshoremen's union required them to unload like its 1950. There are arbitrary rules about storing old containers to the point where trucks are stuck with empties on them because of government regs. Things that are easy to fix except the power structure doesn't want them fixed. At some point it seems every bureaucracy's main job it to protect itself.
We all want fairness and for people to do well but now we have equity and inclusion to the point that virtually nothing can get done anymore. Its not another aspect of getting the job done. It IS NOW the job. Racism in the name of fighting racism. Fighting poverty by trying to make 99.9% of us equally poor. So much of all of these things are interconnected. Part of the reason I didn't retire last year is I was waiting to see if everything was going to burn down. Now it seems it absolutely will all burn down I just want to get a few years out of the pension I worked 30 years for before it becomes worthless.
How's that for a parallel tangent?