Vintage "thin" vs Modern "BIG" Recorded Guitar Sounds (USING FRANK HANNON of TESLA AS AN EXAMPLE)

[toomanycats]

On a recent thread about recording big guitar sounds I posted a comment that questioned the unspoken assumption that bigger guitar is better. I didn't want to hijack that thread so I've started this one.

Just yesterday a video for Frank Hannon's new song "Ride Strong" popped up on my YouTube feed. Understand, I love Tesla, and I think that Hannon is an amazing guitar player, along with Tommy Skeoch. The original line up of Tesla put out some incredible records. However, I was not at all thrilled with Hannon's guitar sound on this new solo tune. In fact, it struck me as a perfect example of the modern "big guitar" sound heard so frequently on recordings today.

Below are videos of a classic Tesla song with Hannon (and Scheoch's) "thin" guitar sound, and below that is Hannon's new song with the "BIG" guitar sound.

Which do you prefer, and why?

Oh . . . and on an unrelated topic, I've just gotta know, what's your opinion on the Gibson SG with the Floyd that Hannon's using in the second video? Cool or blasphemous?


"THIN" GUITAR circa 1986



"BIG" GUITAR circa 2021

[Chocol8]

I prefer the “thin” because of the better dynamics and variation of levels in the mix. That said, while the new recording sounds quite flat and overly compressed to me, it was much better than I was expecting, and I think relatively well done for a modern compressed big guitar sound.

[Tonray's Ghost]

Big guitar sound = muddy, lacks articulation, and the song itself sucks (IMHO)

[toomanycats]

I'm surprised how much Hannon's recent sound resembles a Rockman. To my ears it sounds like there's something pushed in the mids in a Rockman like fashion. @eicca, at what frequency is the Rockman eq boosted, and does this guitar sound strike you as similar?

In the second video Hannon is shown using a HIWATT head on top of two Marshall cabs. This may just be for show in the video, but does anyone think his tone sounds like a HIWATT?

[andrewsrea]

First, I appreciate you posting this John. Serendipitously, I just transferred my copies of 'Mechanical Resonance' and 'Great Radio Controversy' to digital. They are underrated, by far.

Frank Harmon can still write interesting tunes!

But I prefer the old stuff, for some of the things you insinuated. He is missing his counter-balance in Tommy Skeoch, or someone like that. Different playing style + different rigs = excitement and movement in an up-tempo song. As @Chocol8 & @Tonray's Ghost mentioned, for this genre - too low and heavy. It left a ton of room in the vocal & solo guitar frequencies, but seemed to lose momentum when the vocals or solos were absent. Sometimes that trick provides 'air' for tension & release, but here it seemed deflating.

That could be a Hiwatt with pedals. My wife and I caught Tesla at the Hollywood Amphitheater in Maryland Heights, MOo in 2019 and Frank was using the Hiwatt w/ Marshall stack and a Marshall w/ Marshall stack, plus a sizable pedalboard.

Having used a Sholtz Rockman Sustanor with a Roland JC120 from 1986 to 1988, I am guessing the Rockman has a scoop in the 200Hz to 500Hz, a boost in the 800Hz to 1K and a slight scoop in the 4KHz range for the dirt sound.

[eicca]

I'm surprised how much Hannon's recent sound resembles a Rockman. To my ears it sounds like there's something pushed in the mids in a Rockman like fashion. @eicca, at what frequency is the Rockman eq boosted, and does this guitar sound strike you as similar?

The sound is similar for sure. I think the Rockman uses a mid boost around 500hz. There’s a lot more in the Rockman sound though, large cuts in certain areas, multiple layers of EQ before and after the clipping, all to create a sound that works without the natural filtering of a cabinet.

[nomadh]

I think it's completely unfair to call the 1st song "thin" its fat and thick and meaty. The new song is just fat and flabby. I've fought thin tone for 40 years. That 1st song couldn't be thin. It's why I like a string quartet but not a 100 piece orchestra. 100 just sounds fat and indistinct.
And Tesla is awesome. The un- hair metal band

[Rollin Hand]

I hear a lot of the same tone between both.

One thing we may want to consider is that Tesla is a band, where Frank Hannon, solo, is running the show. He may have wanted his tone more upfront, and meatier.

Which brings me to the producer, who may have had different ideas about things.

As well, Marshalls available in the 80s vs. what is available now are very distinct things. Same with pickup. And recording gear.

[toomanycats]

Another good example:


L.A. GUNS 1989 ThIN Guitar




L.A. GUNS 2017 BIG Guitar

[Chocol8]

I wonder how much Bugera paid them for that obscenely obvious product placement?

[glasshand]

Just as a general observation, I have noticed that a lot of great guitar tracks sound kind of crappy when they're isolated - very thin. But that's part of what makes the entire mix sound better, IMO: if everybody wants to have a big, fat sound, then when they're all playing together it sounds like mud, with everybody stepping on everybody else frequency-wise.

[toomanycats]

Just as a general observation, I have noticed that a lot of great guitar tracks sound kind of crappy when they're isolated - very thin. But that's part of what makes the entire mix sound better, IMO: if everybody wants to have a big, fat sound, then when they're all playing together it sounds like mud, with everybody stepping on everybody else frequency-wise.

Bingo! You are exactly right. The best guitar sound for a guitarist playing in isolation is not the best sound in the context of a full band mix. There's only so much space across the frequency range and each instrument has it's space.

Part of the wisdom of Keith Richards in this regard was removing the low E string so it wouldn't overlap the frequency of Wyman's bass parts. He's also spoken about the extra unpaid member of The Rolling Stones named "silence," who has contributed so much to their sound, adding openness, air, and space. This is diametrically opposed to most methods of modern rock music production.

[glasshand]

Bingo! You are exactly right. The best guitar sound for a guitarist playing in isolation is not the best sound in the context of a full band mix. There's only so much space across the frequency range and each instrument has it's space.

It occurs to me that this is also why trios can sound really big (Cream and ZZ Top come to mind): with fewer instruments, each one can have an individually bigger sound and still fit well in the mix.

[Chocol8]

Not just trios, but also bands like Led Zeppelin and Van Hallen with three instruments and a singer.

[Milkman]

Check out the original Twisted Sister Stay Hungry album compared to the re-recorded Still Hungry… same thing. The new guitars sound thick and all, but the overall mix suffers greatly as a result, IMHO.