Seeking Advice on Amplifying an Acoustic for Live Performance

[toomanycats]

One of the acts I perform with as a duo does quit a bit of material that lends itself well to using an acoustic. I'm talking about songs by Whiskey Myers, Tyler Childers, Cody Jinks, The Eagles, Blackberry Smoke, and Tom Petty, amongst others. This past weekend was the first time I actually used an acoustic for one of these gigs. The guitar I used was a Fender F-35 I recently bought. I've deduced that it's probably a 72 or 73 from the specs. I actually didn't know the guitar had an output jack when I purchased it because it's stealthily hidden inside the rear strap pin. I bought the guitar because it sounded so good acoustically, has a beautiful spruce top, Obankole back/sides, comfy V neck, was in great shape for it's age, and the price was nice.

The F-35 doesn't sound terrible plugged in, though it does suffer from some of the characteristics I've never liked about the sound of piezo pickups. Namely, I find them bright, spiky, thin, too immediate an attack, and lacking body.

So my question in a nutshell is, how would I amplify this guitar, or any other of my acoustic guitars, and get a more natural and organic live sound? I'd love to be able to amplify and gig with my Harley Benton D-41 clone or my 70s MIJ Lyle "lawsuit" Gibson.

I don't want to use a mic, because that entails hauling more gear to a gig . . . a mic, mic stand, cables. I like to keep it parred down to what I can carry into and out of the venue in one trip by myself.

I also don't want to do anything invasive to the guitars.

What's the deal with these pickups you place in the soundhole?

Please assume I know nothing on the subject of live acoustic guitar amplification, because in fact I don't.

[devdem]

I have used an LR Baggs M1 for a few years for live performances and for recording and it does a good job of sounding like an acoustic guitar. There are a number of options out there, but I've seen the M1 used by pros onstage. I never bothered mounting the end pin jack - I just let it dangle out the front of the guitar and that way I can re-mount it to another guitar if I so choose.

[toomanycats]

I have used an LR Baggs M1 for a few years for live performances and for recording and it does a good job of sounding like an acoustic guitar. There are a number of options out there, but I've seen the M1 used by pros onstage. I never bothered mounting the end pin jack - I just let it dangle out the front of the guitar and that way I can re-mount it to another guitar if I so choose.

Thanks! I'll go check it out right now.

[Milkman]

Hi just picked up an TC Helicon Acoustic Play pedal, designed for players who sing. The guitar side of things has a body resonance feature (I assume it’s basically an IR) that makes the piezo sound much more natural. It has some other effects too. I chose this one because I’ve also been singing, but the guitar sounds pretty good from this pedal straight into the PA.

[mickey]

Fishman Loudbox.

[RockYoWorld]

I agree that I don't like the way piezo pickups sound. As Mickey mentioned, I'm sure some of Fishman's products help with that. Alternatively, if you have any gear that you can load IRs in, I could help you make the sound more of a mic'ed acoustic sound. I've played with that quite a bit with my acoustic guitars and now with my EC1000 with a piezo pickup. Basically, I found IRs of a Taylor guitar being played into various microphones. Using one of those IRs with compressors and EQ has some good results.

The acoustic guitars obviously turn out better than the electric, but here's a quick video overview of what I did on electric.

[howardlo65]

Acoustics sound FAR better miced than with any electronic system. Speaking from over 60 years of primarily playing and gigging with acoustics. The ones I have heard that sound the best are the K & K Minis with no preamp used.

[nomadh]

I bought the more invasive version of this that I was considering installing in my fender 12 string. My fender is also much better than the brand is generally recognized as. Has 2 internal mics but this one doesn't need the hole chopped in the side like mine.

[Chocol8]

This may be a bit outside the box, but shortly before lockdown, I heard one of the best sounding acoustic performances I have seen in any size venue. The guy was playing a Martin with piezo plugged in and no mic, but it didn’t sound at all like a piezo and very much like a gloriously well miced studio recording. I asked him about it during the set break, and he was using just an IR pedal, a touch of EQ and on to PA. The key was instead of a speaker IR, it was an IR of an acoustic guitar designed to transform the piezo signal into what a guitar really sounds like. It worked!

[toomanycats]

Thanks for all the advice fellas, it's much appreciated. Been doing lots of online investigation of all your suggestions.

[Razzle]

I’ve always thought that compressor with noise gate would work great. The problems with acoustics is the quieter passages don’t come across, and then the loud chords are too dynamic. I guess if you’re just playing cowboy chords it won’t matter much, I guess I’m referring to more of a finesse playing style.

[Mossman]

I'm on the mic bus... I ran sound for for a lot of acoustic acts/bands once upon a time, and played a fair amount of live acoustic guitar myself, long before I ever thought of playing an electric, and nothing beats the sound of a mic'd acoustic.

Of course, we didn't have any fancy "IRs", or acoustic guitar modelers, or any swanky digital tech back then, but we LIKED IT LIKE THAT!

Now get off my lawn!

[nomadh]

Just had to do this last night. I brought my Ibanez with an xlr out and figured I'd just grab a mic input. Seemed to mess with the sound guy for some reason. He had signal to foh but not to monitors. Why and how could it be different than a mic? Not! But then it got me to remembering I think I have a perfectly working mic cable of mine that wont pass signal from this guitar? Wtf? I need to still trouble shoot that but both the cable plug and guitar jack seem to be well built std products. Sure dont need that crap. Anyway once it was working it went well. Not great but decent tone. At the very end something crapped out. Probably the battery but I need to check that.
Just goes to show you any tiny thing that can go wrong will absodamnlutely go wrong.

[OMB]

Acoustics sound FAR better miced than with any electronic system. Speaking from over 60 years of primarily playing and gigging with acoustics. The ones I have heard that sound the best are the K & K Minis with no preamp used.

I have had many acoustic pickups and still have a pretty good mix but I agree on the K&K Minis. I also use a Vox VX50AG. Loud enough for a small gig with acoustic and a mic and no feedback. Decent quality sound too!

[Chocol8]

Bumping this thread because I just saw this video posted on TGP. It explains how to capture an IR of the difference between your piezo pickup which doesn’t sound so good and your miced sound which generally sounds much better.

With this IR, you can then get the miced acoustic tone with a cheap IR loader pedal. That is going to be the best combination of sound quality and convenience for a live acoustic gig.



TGP thread:

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index ... e.2257439/

[tonebender]

I've tried all kinds of set ups and glad to talk about them all. Acoustic amps I own are Fishman, Carvin, Vox and Boss.

I started with a Fishman Loudbox when I transitioned into acoustic gigging. I would run my mic and guitar into it then direct out of the amp into the board.

I got the Carvin because it has a larger speaker. It did not measure up in sound quality but is a nice amp.

Back with the Tonebenders I ran my acoustic through a DI box and then into the board but that was only for a couple songs in a 40 song night.

I've also gigged most recently with the guitar run straight into the 1/4" input jack on my Yamaha 8-channel head and it sounds great. Running it through a board gives you a lot of EQ capability.

The best set up however is when I run the acoustic through an ART tube preamp and then into the board. The tube preamp warms it up quite a bit and fattens the sound.

Lately I have retired the Fishman (I have two actually) and have settled on a Boss Acoustic Singer. It is the best so far but I am eyeing a TC Helicon if they ever get some in so I can buy one.

To summarize my thoughts on everything I have tried, I think with a band the best situation is a direct box or the tube preamp and then into the board. And that would be whether it was for a few songs or a lot. For a solo or duo act with no drummer, I like to use an acoustic amp for both my vocals and my guitar and then direct out into whatever PA is running. My amp is my monitor (in all these scenarios). For a solo act I do the same but direct out into one powered speaker and call it a day. That limits EQ to just the amp but that's fine.

[redman]

TMC I always had an acoustic electric a Gibson L4-A plugged it straight in the board I have to be honest the sound guy always hooked me up and it sounded fine. There was a time I used a little Marshall Acoustic amp with 2X8's dropped a SM57 in front of it and it worked well. I recently bought a Yamaha FG 820 12 string and it doesn't have a pickup system built in and I've been checking these out thinking about trying one out.
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... -canceling


Here's my L4-A with my LP in my house before the ex sent us packing.

[voodoorat]

i put an lr baggs m80 in the guitar i play most often amplified (thru a roland ac-100). it's magnetic so it doesn't sound like that guitar amplified, exactly, but it sounds very good imo, and the body sound works well to make it sound alive like it would played acoustically--rhythmic stuff sounds like it should. i have never met a piezo i liked. i find the prospect of trying to use a mic in a band-like scenario very daunting--have enough trouble avoiding mic feedback as it is.