Beware MF Trickery

[Mossman]

I'm pretty sure you all know about the Ibanez I recently bought, and all the travails that led up to it. It's a great guitar, and I was going to keep it, but the inlays are crooked, and once noticed it cannot be un-noticed, and it's even more noticeable in the playing position. I tried my best to not let it bother me, and since they were out of stock at MF, I figured I'd just have to get over it, and accept it. But last Friday, I took a look to see if any more had arrived and it said: "In stock and ready to ship!". So I got on the phone with MF to inquire about doing an exchange, only to be told that the guitar is actually not in stock.

I said: "somebody should check the website then, because right now, it says it's in stock". He said: "Huh? Oh, yeah, it does that sometimes...". But he assured me that they were getting more in on the 8th, so I just shrugged it off as a computer glitch (when I refreshed the page after the conversation it reverted back to: "More coming soon!").

Then he tells me that MF doesn't do exchanges... I would have to return the guitar for a refund and buy another one. I told him that might be a problem, because I used a 20% off coupon plus rewards cash when I bought the guitar, and asked him if that could be transferred to the new purchase. He said: "They would be happy to do that... We're sorry we sent you a guitar with crooked inlays... just hang on to the guitar until we get more in stock, and give us a call to arrange the return and purchase". He also said I should check a few days before the 8th, because they might come in earlier.

So... last night, out of curiosity and boredom, I checked the page and don't you know it? It said: "In stock and ready to ship!".

So I got on the horn to MF again, and explained the situation to the woman on the phone, recounting my conversation with the other guy on Friday, and she gave me the distinct impression that the coupon and the rewards cash could not be transferred to the new purchase, and asked for the name of the person who told me that. Then she said that it doesn't matter anyway, because they DON'T HAVE ANY IN STOCK, and won't have until the END of April!

I said: "Whaaaaaa? First of all, your guy said they were coming in on the 8th, and secondly; I'm looking at the page RIGHT NOW, and it says it's in stock". She said: "Oh, sometimes it just updates like that." I said: "Why would it update if there's been no change of status? It keeps flip-flopping between "in-stock" and "out-of-stock" every time I look at the page!"

She didn't have an answer for that, and I proceeded to put the guitar in my cart and start the checkout process. I said: "Look, I put one in my cart and it's letting me check out!"

She said: "Yes, it lets you check out..." I said: "and then what?? You just leave them hanging?" She replied (somewhat sheepishly): "then we send you an email in a couple of days telling you it's out of stock, but it'll arrive soon".

I said: "That sounds kinda under-handed... Like you're tricking people into buying something you don't have".

[silence]

It became clear that I wasn't getting anything out of this conversation... Not the guitar, not the coupon... None of it. So I told her I would have to think about my options and that I would call them back.

This left a bad taste in my mouth. Advertising a product as being available and "ready to ship" just to get a prospective customer on the hook seems pretty shady to me, and probably illegal. They don't charge your account until the item ships, but they're engaging in dishonest advertising, hoping that most people will just accept it (when MF finally tells them the truth), and not bother to cancel the order.

Also, I don't like their lack of an exchange policy. I had to return a couple of guitars to MF in the past (got two guitars in a row with cracked necks), and when I returned them, they just sent me out another one. For that matter, I've never bought a guitar online where they make you buy another one if the one they sent you is damaged or defective. This is not what I call "customer service"... and the fact that they won't honor the coupon for the replacement is downright customer-hostile. I don't think I'll be buying any more guitars from MF in the future.

I almost didn't post about this, but I thought people should know that Musician's Friend is trawling the waters with baitless hooks, and they will lie to keep you on that hook.

And if you have a problem with the guitar when you finally do get it, don't expect MF to go out of their way to make it right. They don't care... Just buy another one...

[uwmcscott]

Sorry to hear that, but to be honest now many MF/GC horror stories and threads do we need to hear before people quit buying from them?

The MF\GC Bugera thread from the past should have put them out of business.

It must be the cheap prices, but honestly it seems like no matter how many times people get burned they keep going back.

[honyock]

They did this to me on the Bugera V5 in November I bought from them and cancelled because it was supposedly in stock then I got a backorder notice, then every day it was in stock and not really and they wouldn't commit to a ship date, so I just gave up.

They still call me all the time about making another purchase. I have given up on them. I'd rather give Sweetwater my new gear business.

[tlarson58]

Man, I really like MF. This story is a downer. They should know better. Years of excellent customer service goes out the door with a stunt like this.

[Mossman]

Sorry to hear that, but to be honest now many MF/GC horror stories and threads do we need to hear before people quit buying from them?

The MF\GC Bugera thread from the past should have put them out of business.

It must be the cheap prices, but honestly it seems like no matter how many times people get burned they keep going back.

I'm not aware of any Bugera controversy... What was that about?

Usually Musician's Friend is the last place I think of when shopping for a new guitar, but they were the only ones who had the Ibanez in stock. Even then, I wasn't motivated to jump ship from AMS until I got that 20% off coupon.

I actually haven't had a lot of bad experiences with MF, but that's probably because I haven't bought a lot of stuff from them. The first time I bought a guitar from them was in 2007. That was the time they sent me two Epiphones with cracked necks, and because it was a limited edition at the tail end of its run ('57 Les Paul Junior), they were all gone and never to return by the time I got the second broken one. But I didn't see that as a customer service issue... Shit happens... Bad timing... The second time I bought a guitar from them was in 2009, I think, and they gave me a great deal on two Rickenbackers... Due to some clerical error (they had gotten lost in inventory for a couple of years), I basically got two for the price of one (a 330 and a 360). I kept the one I liked best and flipped the other one on ebay for a hefty profit (Aaaah... Those were the days that were). But that was the last time I bought anything more than bulk strings, or some cheap SDOTD item from them... I go with Sweetwater about 90% of the time.

And Guitar Center is mostly only good for used gear to me... They refuse to deal, so they're not even on my list for new purchases.

[Mossman]

They did this to me on the Bugera V5 in November I bought from them and cancelled because it was supposedly in stock then I got a backorder notice, then every day it was in stock and not really and they wouldn't commit to a ship date, so I just gave up.

Yeah this is some shady bullshit... It's not exactly a "bait-and-switch", but it's akin to it, and I'd be very surprised to find out there aren't some laws against this practice. I wonder how many other items they have listed as available that really aren't?

They still call me all the time about making another purchase. I have given up on them. I'd rather give Sweetwater my new gear business.

I had forgotten about this until you reminded me... A couple months ago, I got some phone/email harassment from a GC employee. This guy was calling me twice a day, every day for a couple of weeks. It was always during business hours, while I was at work, and I never answer my phone while I'm at work, unless I know you. This was getting pretty annoying and one day I happened to notice an email from him, which included the words: "Unless I hear back from you, I will keep calling you..."

I responded by saying: "So you're telling me you're going to continue to harass me on my cell phone in an attempt to get me to buy something from you??", and proceeded to read him the riot act, ending with something to the effect of: "If I ever get another call or email from you again, I will report this abuse to the appropriate agencies and take whatever legal actions are at my disposal.

I never heard from him again.

[Mossman]

Man, I really like MF. This story is a downer. They should know better. Years of excellent customer service goes out the door with a stunt like this.

They don't seem to have any customer service as far as I can tell. This feels like buying a guitar from a vending machine... A vending machine that lies to you.

[Partscaster]

Thanks for the warning.
I guess I'm even more inclined now to tend to wait for SWater to restock.
They probably would have noticed the inlays and rejected the guitar when the batch first came in.
They say thats what they do, initial inspection for any non adjustable issues, and send the duds back,....(which must go to someone else). Then later comes their pre- shipping final inspection/ 50 pt check, I believe.

[LancerTheGreat]

I haven't purchased anything from GC or MF for probably around 11 or 12 years. They poisoned the well so I got the fuck outta town.
We used to have a couple of nice local shops, but there's just one left in town, but I hear they're doing well enough, I haven't been in ages. Usually if I need or want something I'll check on Sweetwater, Zzounds or AMS. (In that order.)
But I simp HARD for Sweetwater, they've provided excellent service, they follow-up a few days to a week or two after delivery to check if you're fully satisfied, and my only return was a wireless system I just ended up not really liking, but it was totally painless and didn't cost me anything to ship back.
Plus Sweetwater lets you pick the exact guitar and see pictures of it instead of a stock photo on a lot of their inventory.
Zzounds has been a similar experience, just without the "homey" follow-up, usually just a little survey.

Depending on what's what I'll pretty much just go back and forth between Sweetwater and Zzounds.

[Flatline]

MF used to be my preferred place to shop. I've gotten some great deals and always had good customer service. That was until last fall. I ordered a guitar from them. It was listed as in-stock and ready to ship. A couple days after my order, I got the backorder notice. The email said it was expected to be in-stock about 2 weeks later. I figured that was no problem, I was happy to wait. I was using some reward points and I think a 10% off coupon, I don't exactly remember, but it was cheaper than anywhere else at the time. That date came and went. I called to find out what was going on and I talked to a gentleman that had no idea what was going on. He assured me it was in-stock and would ship in the next day or two. I waited another week and gave up. I called and cancelled my order. A few days later Sweetwater had them in stock so I placed my order and since they are close I had the guitar the very next day. MF is now the last place I go when looking for gear. I have a pretty awesome local shop that is about 2 miles up the road from me, so when I need something immediately, I go there.

[BatUtilityBelt]

I don't give MF the time of day anymore. Years back, I had a coupon from them and applied it online to get (I think) 15% off an instrument. The checkout process didn't tell me the coupon would not apply until checkout was complete (too late to cancel). I thought that was pretty skeevy, and if I was going to pay full retail, I knew shops that would throw in added value. So I called to either get the coupon applied or cancel the order. They said they could neither apply the coupon nor cancel the order, but told me I could refuse the shipment when it arrived, and it would get me a refund.

These were not work-from-home days and I knew that was going to be a hassle. I responded "So wait, you would rather pay for shipping both ways, inconvenience everyone, put the instrument through shipping abuse, and ruin my confidence in your store than get on the computer to find the order and cancel it?" Yes, they said.

I said: "Ok, I will do that if it is my only option, but if that is how we handle it, this is the last thing I ever tried to buy from MF.". They didn't blink. So that was the last thing I ever bought (and returned) to MF. I cannot understand why they are like that.

[ID10t]

Great, I hate them all, I guess I am done buying stuff.

[aullucci]

That's messed up. Back in January I think Sweetwater had that big sale on the new Behringer pedals for $19 each. The website at the time said they were out of stock and did not even offer a firm date for delivery. I bought online, and my rep called me the next day to tell me that it wouldn't be available until at least March, and if I wanted to, he'd refund the purchase price and not charge my card again until it shipped to me from their warehouse. It was $19 so I didn't sweat it, and it's still not here, which I don't love. But I got exactly what they told me I was going to get. I feel like this is exactly how I want a business to act. Even if the website showing 'in stock' was a mistake and not an intentional ploy, the nonsense customer service runaround is inexcusable.

[LightWingStudios]

Sweetwater RULZ...No bull dinky with them. They walk the walk and talk the talk. I ONLY buy from them.

[OMB]

I have purchased tons of stuff from M123 and MF but rarely GC. To be honest it has been a while since I bought from them and these stories are rather disheartening as I have never experienced anything less than stellar customer service. Oh well...sigh.

[dabbler]

I don't give MF the time of day anymore. Years back, I had a coupon from them and applied it online to get (I think) 15% off an instrument. The checkout process didn't tell me the coupon would not apply until checkout was complete (too late to cancel). I thought that was pretty skeevy, and if I was going to pay full retail, I knew shops that would throw in added value. So I called to either get the coupon applied or cancel the order. They said they could neither apply the coupon nor cancel the order, but told me I could refuse the shipment when it arrived, and it would get me a refund.

These were not work-from-home days and I knew that was going to be a hassle. I responded "So wait, you would rather pay for shipping both ways, inconvenience everyone, put the instrument through shipping abuse, and ruin my confidence in your store than get on the computer to find the order and cancel it?" Yes, they said.

I said: "Ok, I will do that if it is my only option, but if that is how we handle it, this is the last thing I ever tried to buy from MF.". They didn't blink. So that was the last thing I ever bought (and returned) to MF. I cannot understand why they are like that.

I agree, anybody running a business like that is crazy.

[howardlo65]

That's messed up. Back in January I think Sweetwater had that big sale on the new Behringer pedals for $19 each. The website at the time said they were out of stock and did not even offer a firm date for delivery. I bought online, and my rep called me the next day to tell me that it wouldn't be available until at least March, and if I wanted to, he'd refund the purchase price and not charge my card again until it shipped to me from their warehouse. It was $19 so I didn't sweat it, and it's still not here, which I don't love. But I got exactly what they told me I was going to get. I feel like this is exactly how I want a business to act. Even if the website showing 'in stock' was a mistake and not an intentional ploy, the nonsense customer service runaround is inexcusable.

I also ordered one of those and knew they were out of stock and may be a long time coming. My sales rep called me to be sure I knew they were not in stock and no idea when they would be. I had decided I really didn’t need or want it so had him cancel the order and bought something else while I had him on the phone and could get a bit of a discount. Bought a new Martin OOO. Way better than a $19 pedal, and I don’t even use pedals.

[Mossman]

There's a reason why Sweetwater is almost universally considered the gold standard of online music retailers. Even if I didn't regularly get a 10-15% discount on almost every purchase, I'd still prefer to do business with them. When I talk to a Sweetwater rep, I always feel like they're engaged and interested in getting me what I want... It feels like special treatment. They're personable, and I usually end up having a pretty good conversation with them. When I call these other places, I often feel like I'm talking to a switchboard operator, or like I'm interrupting their lunch break, or something.

The one time I had to return a guitar to Sweetwater, they actually shipped me out the replacement with the return label for the first guitar in the box! It arrived in TWO days. That was the day I became a regular Sweetwater customer. I don't think I ever took them for granted, but this forray has made me appreciate them a lot more... It was the confluence of availability, and the prospect of a killer deal that made me wander off the rez, but I won't be so tempted again.

Even if MF had given me stellar customer service, I can't abide dishonesty. Their reps have lied right to my face on several occasions, and their practice of deceiving people into ordering items that they don't actually have in stock is pretty shady... And I'm pretty sure GC is doing it too. That Ibanez is listed as "in stock" on their website as well. I'm actually thinking about registering a complaint about this, but I don't know who to contact that would matter.

So I'm going to return this guitar to MF for a refund and tell one of their managers what I think about their customer service, and their little shell game.

Depending on what's what I'll pretty much just go back and forth between Sweetwater and Zzounds.

It's funny you mentioned Zzounds... They happened to have an open-box AS93FM available for a pretty good price... I've never ordered anything from them before, so it's good to hear you vouch for their customer service.

[LancerTheGreat]

I've definitely not had an inkling of bad service from them, they're just a little "colder"/impersonal than Sweetwater, I use the hell out of 'em for a lot of things. I keep a shortcut to both on every browser and every device lol.

[slowhand84]

Sorry to hear that, but to be honest now many MF/GC horror stories and threads do we need to hear before people quit buying from them?

The MF\GC Bugera thread from the past should have put them out of business.

It must be the cheap prices, but honestly it seems like no matter how many times people get burned they keep going back.

I'm guessing you're referring to new gear (as there have been stories of GC/MF selling returns and even used gear as new, and various other issues) so on that note I kinda agree but I will say that GC Used is an absolute treasure trove of insane steals. I hope they never ever go out of business, there is pretty much no other place that exists where you can find stuff for those types of insane prices.

[tonebender]

I try to only deal with Sweetwater. Occasionally I get a 20% off coupon from MF but it never applies to anything I want. The small print states something like "qualifying items". Anything worthwhile does no qualify.

[OMB]

I try to only deal with Sweetwater. Occasionally I get a 20% off coupon from MF but it never applies to anything I want. The small print states something like "qualifying items". Anything worthwhile does no qualify.

In order to get the discount on most items you need to talk with someone. Just ordering on line and using a coupon usually doesn't work.

[tobijohn]

There's a reason why Sweetwater is almost universally considered the gold standard of online music retailers. Even if I didn't regularly get a 10-15% discount on almost every purchase, I'd still prefer to do business with them. When I talk to a Sweetwater rep, I always feel like they're engaged and interested in getting me what I want... It feels like special treatment. They're personable, and I usually end up having a pretty good conversation with them. When I call these other places, I often feel like I'm talking to a switchboard operator, or like I'm interrupting their lunch break, or something...

Not to mention a small bag of candy included with every purchase...

[Mossman]

Not to mention a small bag of candy included with every purchase...

Almost every purchase... I got gypped one time... It was a major bummer. And the last time I bought something from Sweetwater, there were no Smarties! C'mon, guys! You can keep the Bit-O-Honey and the Laffy Taffy, AND the Fireball, but don't cheap out when it comes to those pastel-colored tablets of compressed sugar, man! I need that shit!

But seriously, yeah... The candy is a nice touch.

[tobijohn]

Not to mention a small bag of candy included with every purchase...

Almost every purchase... I got gypped one time... It was a major bummer. And the last time I bought something from Sweetwater, there were no Smarties! C'mon, guys! You can keep the Bit-O-Honey and the Laffy Taffy, AND the Fireball, but don't cheap out when it comes to those pastel-colored tablets of compressed sugar, man! I need that shit!

But seriously, yeah... The candy is a nice touch.

You got gipped alright, I did get the Smarties along with a Tootsie Roll, Laffy Taffy and a couple others I can't recall that were in with a power supply for an Atomic Ampllifire that came today...