Any keto experience?

[Rollin Hand]

Just like the title says, anyone here have experience with the keto diet or similar?

I am dealing with some issues that would likely be solved by losing a ton (figuratively, but not as figuratively as I'd like) of weight. I have high blood pressure (treating it with diet and medication) and something or another always seems to hurt.

Compounding matters, I am also dealing with depression (treated) and having two kids (8 and 4), which sucks up a lot of time and energy. The depression is way worse when I don't have enough protein in my system, hence thinking of keto.

I will discuss with my doctor, but I was wondering if anyone here had done it,and what it had done for/to them. Thanks.

[ID10t]

I don't have first hand experience just to be clear. I do have a friend who has been off and on for like two years, the latest of many "diets" but he just can't or won't change his diet. He does have difficulty staying on the keto diet, physically, psychologically, and proximity to resources. He does like the butter in his coffee though.
I'll be watching this thread, it could be lively.

[Flatline]

My wife was on it a couple years ago and lost a good bit of weight (40-50lbs). It is hard to stay on if you don’t have a good meal plan and a lot of self discipline. She lasted about a year on it and then gave up as it was near impossible to keep up with when we were traveling a lot for my sons travel baseball. As a family we ate a lot of keto meals with her on it but the kids and I would add non keto sides. She had a couple recipe apps and books that keep the meal variety interesting.

[RiverDog]

@Rollin Hand funny you should mention keto. I was thinking of posting my recent experience with it, which I ended up forgetting to do.

I don't have time to post all the details right now but I started a ketogenic diet program in November and since then I've lost 35 lbs. It can definitely be effective. It has been for me. I feel great physically and suddenly I'm shopping for smaller clothes! I'm not doing this on my own, though. I got involved with a plan facilitated by a company that was brought in by my employer, which means I have lots of support through people, an app, and a device I breathe into every morning that measures the amount of acetone in my breath (the amount of acetone indicates how much fat your body is burning).

Leave any additional questions you have here, or send me a PM, and I'm happy to give you more details when I have time.

[Chocol8]

I have done it successfully, it is not easy, but no weight loss plan is. It is also not an eat all the meats and fats you want type of diet if you want it to work.

The keys to keto from my research and experience:

1) Keto is a salad and vegetable diet first and foremost.
2) You eat enough protein, but not too much. Excess protein gets processed into glucose which is no good. Max 35 grams per meal, for most people 70-100 grams per day.
3) moderate amounts of fat and oils will help fill you up and give you energy, but you do need to watch calories. To lose weight I stayed at 1500 calories or less per day.
4) very low carb, primarily from veggies and some fruits in small amounts. 15-30 grams per day.
5) Do not try to make keto versions of “normal” foods. Learn to eat salads with a bit of protein and an oil based dressing, or meat with lots of veggie sides, etc.
6) Once stabilized on Keto, think about adding intermittent fasting, for example, don’t eat for 16 hours a day and have maybe 2 meals and a snack in the other 8. Or possibly 18 and 6 or 20 and 4.

The biggest thing that made it work for me where other low carb diets failed was learning to control protein as well as carbs, counting calories, and eating MOSTLY salads and vegetables with meats and fats added to get to target protein and target calories. If you do that, you are not hungry after a few days, and your energy level goes up. Combining keto with moderate exercise, I lost 35 pounds in 3 months. I have since tried to maintain most of those eating habits but allowing myself more carbs, cheat meals and the occasional dessert. So far I have kept the weight off for 3 years and counting.

[nomadh]

I did it and liked it alot I was up to 230 and hating it after christmas a couple years ago. I wanted to loose weight BUT I was just going on a cruise. I was doomed! Anyway without much time to even look us meal plans or how I did the cruise. I ate only meat and vegetables. The desserts are never that great anyway except the ice cream. The best part is the meat and that is expensive so I double entree'd and ordered the burger and fries and just ate the patty. Carne asada, fish and fancy chicken. Cheese on some great veg dishes. I really didnt feel deprived, I was stuffed. I ate like a pig And I felt I got my money's worth and never felt crazy full.
Turns out I only gained 1 lb so that was a win. After, i kept the diet going and lost 20 or 25 lbs. Over about 8 months.
And then i started cheating. Quite a bit. But the amazing thing was my weight held. The diet seemed to really change my setpoint. And then I cheated more and it still held. It wasn't until I really blew it out that my weight started to creep back up.. a couple of months ago I was back to 225. It's been tough going back down. You really need to be strict at first and I think some people get into ketosis easier than others. I think the diet can be very healthy if you keep to mostly vegetables with just meat to add flavor and protein but eating lots of steaks is more fun

[brentona]

Keto has been a great success to my wife and I. Like others have mentioned, you need to stay on track hard core for at least the first month. Huge change for me. For years I’d consume whatever calories I would for the day in a four hour window after work. Not to excess but just that when I’d nourish myself.

Once you get over the hump of a new routine, it all becomes easy. I specifically did my best to nix any amount-able carbs for the first month. I allow myself a max of 40 NET carbs a day. I rarely hit that number now but that’s what I stick with. Learn about calculating NET carbs over just looking at the carb count on the label. Lean meat, cleanly prepared veggies. We eat a ton of fish in my house (we live in Charleston).
Long and short I’m down 40 lbs in three months with zero change to my activity level. We are trying to get out personal lives back in order and have time to join a gym to see bigger results.
Target weight is 175# (wedding weight five years ago). I’m 10 pounds off!

Also should be mentioned that Keto is not designed to be your forever diet. Cholesterol would sky rocket over time.


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[Chocol8]

Also should be mentioned that Keto is not designed to be your forever diet. Cholesterol would sky rocket over time.

You might think that based on the official government nutrition recommendations, but that’s not what really happens. Without the sugar intake, cholesterol typically drops and the ratio of good to bad improves. More importantly, people with elevated triglycerides (better indicator of heart attack and stroke risk) tend to see them plummet on a Keto diet. There are some exceptions however so it is a good idea to get periodic testing to see how you react.

It’s very important to remember that your body can make and breakdown cholesterol and triglycerides, and that the portion in your blood stream is NOT directly linked to the portion in your diet. There are many other factors at play including genetics, exercise, and sugar intake that have a bigger impact than the amount of saturated fats you eat.

[RockYoWorld]

My only experience comes from dating a girl who was on Keto. It was the easiest diet for me to accommodate to when cooking or whatnot since I usually cook some sort of meat, and Keto sides can be tasty as well.

I do know that she had to ride that line because entering/leaving ketosis was the worst part, according to her.

[dabbler]

My middle son is on keto. As for a sustainable, healthy long term diet look into something plant-based... yes, I'm serious. Check out nutritionfacts.org. And maybe pick up a copy of "How Not to Die" (same guy is responsible for both).

[Chocol8]

Any scientist who looks at human anatomy, specifically our teeth and digestive system, and comes to the conclusion that we have evolved to eat a plant based diet should be stripped of their credentials and forced to sit in a corner with a dunce cap on.

Humans are clearly omnivores. We are meant to eat a mix of vegetables and meat. Where we went off the rails was with the introduction of absurd amounts of grains and sugar to our diets enabled by agriculture and the processed food industry.

[dabbler]

Any scientist who looks at human anatomy, specifically our teeth and digestive system, and comes to the conclusion that we have evolved to eat a plant based diet should be stripped of their credentials and forced to sit in a corner with a dunce cap on.

Humans are clearly omnivores. We are meant to eat a mix of vegetables and meat. Where we went off the rails was with the introduction of absurd amounts of grains and sugar to our diets enabled by agriculture and the processed food industry.

Regardless, when you look at the results of scientific studies of our diet and its effects on the primary causes of death in America (which is what nutritionfacts.org does) there are numerous reasons for advocating a plant-based diet. The evidence is just too strong to ignore.

If you are going to look at the influence of the food industry on what we eat and possible suppression of the facts of how it affects us don't leave out the meat industry.

[voodoorat]

I was on keto/south beach diet (low carb, not usually in ketosis though) for a couple of years. Ketosis itself definitely works in a dramatic way although I always had trouble maintaining it. My ex-wife could do in and out of it easily but if I ate like a peanut I'd be knocked out for 4 days. That said, low(er) carb intake generally I definitely believe can also be effective even if you're not in ketosis. I believe generally in the theory that binge eating id driven in part by blood sugar crashes--which in turn are caused by high carb/sugar food. I know when I was on lower carbs I was less hungry and ate less, and ate better generally because I made smarter choices about what to eat since I basically never had that urge to eat a whole bag of chips. I'm as heavy as I've ever been right now and should get back into it, I could definitely stand to lose 20 or 25 lbs.

My ex-wife and my buddy both complained about how ketosis made them low energy but I found the opposite to be true: I had extra energy, needed less sleep, and felt like my thinking and memory was even a little sharper.

Also, we have annual wellness blood draws and physicals and when I was low carb literally every single one of my health metrics improved in spite of the fact that I was eating a lot of protein (and fat). I ran a marathon then (after training) and could easily have run 10 miles on any given day. At this point I'd be hard pressed to run what used to be my daily 4-5 miles. Chicken or egg, I'm not 100% sure but I think the diet helped the exercise and the exercise helped the diet. It's a whole lot harder to try to do any of that stuff now though that me and my wife split and I have all the kids since I no longer have the hour a day of free time to run and just getting provisioned for meal planning is a lot more challenging.

[Chocol8]

There is far more bunk science about nutrition and health than good science. Very few studies have ever been done that properly account for the difference between correlation and causation and properly control other factors.

A perfect relevant example is high fat diets correlation with heart disease. Is it the meat and fat that cause the problem, or is it meat and fat along with sugar? Not too long ago the medical and scientific community were completely convinced it was the fat. Now they are starting to realize it might be the sugar and insulin response that is the primary problem.

Still, if you look at studies, most of them are still garbage, for example a study on a ketogenic diet where carbs were limited to 60 or 80 grams a day, which is not actually a ketogenic diet for most people. Or, they study high protein high fat versions of the diet which are also not proper keto, which as I stated above is a primarily vegetable based diet with controlled amounts of protein. These details are important or the results are not meaningful.

Studies that show better overall health for vegans don’t control for the HUGE income disparity between the average American vegan and the average person on the SAD diet, or the fact that people with certain metabolic conditions or underlying health problems are far more likely to choose one diet vs another. There are also cultural factors at play.

The result of all the complex factors that go into health is you can design a nutritional study to get whatever result you want, and very very few are actually worth the paper they are printed on.

One thing that is easy to observe, if you track the diet of most vegetarian and vegan Americans, they have nutrient deficiencies just like the fast food junkies on the SAD diet, but in different places. Those that don’t are almost exclusively relying on supplements or processed food products that contain supplements. The reasons are obvious, including the human digestive system is not at all like the digestive systems of herbivores.

[Sinster]

My wife and I started the "keto". (more her than me) last year. I've shed about 50# and tell you the truth, I feel more aches and pains than I did when I had the weight on I didn't think it was all that hard to change my eating habits.

I don't cut all carbs out and do have my fruits and nuts. I only have 90% cocoa dark chocolate in moderation (I find walmart brand is the best). I don't drink anything sugary. I have water, unsweet Iced Tea, and black coffee (did this previously before getting on the keto'ish). I do have a "cheat" dinner once a week. I use Lavish Bread and spinach tortilla which have low carbs. I drink vodka and sparkling water, but limited my stout/porter intake. I snack on carrots, pork rinds, peanuts, and a shit load of Almonds. I use a lot of noodle zero for pasta dishes and cauliflower rice. The lavish bread I use to make flat bread pizza.

[dabbler]

My wife and I started the "keto". (more her than me) last year. I've shed about 50# and tell you the truth, I feel more aches and pains than I did when I had the weight on I didn't think it was all that hard to change my eating habits.

I don't cut all carbs out and do have my fruits and nuts. I only have 90% cocoa dark chocolate in moderation (I find walmart brand is the best). I don't drink anything sugary. I have water, unsweet Iced Tea, and black coffee (did this previously before getting on the keto'ish). I do have a "cheat" dinner once a week. I use Lavish Bread and spinach tortilla which have low carbs.

Check this out: https://nutritionfacts.org/audio/keto-d ... es-part-1/

Yeah, it's kinda long, so if you have a short attention span, start around 8:50.

[Chocol8]

Check this out: https://nutritionfacts.org/audio/keto-d ... es-part-1/

Yeah, it's kinda long, so if you have a short attention span, start around 8:50.

Perfect example of a bad study. 1) If you start with one diet, and then switch, fat loss will be slower on the second one. Fat loss almost always slows even if you stay on the same diet. 2) the diet he calls “ketogenic” wasn’t. 3) Dr. Greger is a hack with a strong agenda, not an honest scientist.

[deeaa]

I have never had weight issues, but often feel bloated and have a biggish stomach despite being thin, and nothing seems to help for that. Except maybe giving up beer, but I'm NOT ready to give up my evening beers and cognacs. I know I'm right at the edge of limits for being considered alcoholic by mere amounts but, hell, it's not like a sixpack or so in pure alcohol before bed daily ever killed anyone really. Just puts me to sleep nicely. I don't get drunk except maybe every other month and not that heavily even then.

I've tried different approaches to my diet choices because I seem to have a bit of IBS and staying off especially fried wheat seems to help.

But, now for a few weeks, I've been on a strictly zero fresh vegetables diet, meaning I don't eat Anything unless it's cooked, and that seems to work very well for me.

Took just a few days that I started feeling better, and my stomach is far more regular, several times a day, dropped about ten pounds in a week or so, and energy is well up too, been taking couple mile jogs almost daily in addition to commuting by bicycle.

Otherwise I eat normally. Just had some fried chicken and potatoes.

I also found that I feel a lot less hungry when I don't eat anything green or fresh, even though I eat the same as before minus the salads. Cooked, I eat veggies too.

Still avoiding wheats, for bread mostly been eating dark rye bread.

I'm gonna keep doing this for at least until summer now. I still weigh 169lbs at 5'10" so I can easily drop another 7-8 pounds to be where I'd like to be.

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[dabbler]

Check this out: https://nutritionfacts.org/audio/keto-d ... es-part-1/

Yeah, it's kinda long, so if you have a short attention span, start around 8:50.

Perfect example of a bad study. 1) If you start with one diet, and then switch, fat loss will be slower on the second one. Fat loss almost always slows even if you stay on the same diet. 2) the diet he calls “ketogenic” wasn’t. 3) Dr. Greger is a hack with a strong agenda, not an honest scientist.

Hmmm, OK. I'll agree to one point off the bat, everyone has an agenda. I believe that Dr. Greger's is getting at the truth. And yeah, he's a doctor not a scientist, which is why he isn't performing the studies just reporting on them.

But help me out on a few points:

1. The study he cited was funded by a group (The Nutrition Sciences Initiative) trying to show the higher fat reduction power of a ketogenic diet. And are you denying Dr. Gregor's claim that the slower body fat loss was due to the fact that even though the body was burning more fat, it wasn't losing more fat because of the increased intake of fat?

2. Can you point me to a study that explains the loss of leg muscle mass by CrossFit trainees he claims? (This video version of the story shows text and some graphs from both studies: https://nutritionfacts.org/video/keto-d ... -the-test/)

3. Can you point me to some of the "good" studies showing the benefits of the Keto diet?

[Chocol8]

The NuSi “study” he grossly misrepresented was a preliminary test of a mere 17 subjects. It was also more of a fund raising scam than an honest attempt at science. The diet used was low carb but it was an extreme high fat diet, not proper Keto. A recurring theme with the anti keto crowd is to label anything Atkins or low carb as keto.

I have no idea what the CrossFit study was, but I would bet good money it was equally flawed. Likely too little protein, too much fat and not a true keto diet, small number of participants, too short a time period, no control of other factors. I say that as a pure guess, but odds are in my favor because those are all standard issues. BTW, scientific studies are published in long detailed papers, not YouTube videos. If Greger isn’t providing links to the studies he cites, there is red flag number one.

There is very little real science done with nutrition. Nearly every study I have seen is deeply flawed, violates scientific method and lacks proper control. That includes both sides of every issue. Locking up large numbers of humans in a highly controlled environment for long periods of time is very expensive and impractical if not immoral.

That said, there are a lot of people who have lost significant amounts of weight on keto diets. They lost fat, still have muscle, their blood work shows significant improvements in cholesterol and triglycerides etc. and they don’t have the gall bladder issues and other problems associated with extreme low fat diets. It doesn’t work for everyone, but there are a lot of successes.

[dabbler]

The NuSi “study” he grossly misrepresented was a preliminary test of a mere 17 subjects. It was also more of a fund raising scam than an honest attempt at science. The diet used was low carb but it was an extreme high fat diet, not proper Keto. A recurring theme with the anti keto crowd is to label anything Atkins or low carb as keto.

I have no idea what the CrossFit study was, but I would bet good money it was equally flawed. Likely too little protein, too much fat and not a true keto diet, small number of participants, too short a time period, no control of other factors. I say that as a pure guess, but odds are in my favor because those are all standard issues. BTW, scientific studies are published in long detailed papers, not YouTube videos. If Greger isn’t providing links to the studies he cites, there is red flag number one.

There is very little real science done with nutrition. Nearly every study I have seen is deeply flawed, violates scientific method and lacks proper control. That includes both sides of every issue. Locking up large numbers of humans in a highly controlled environment for long periods of time is very expensive and impractical if not immoral.

That said, there are a lot of people who have lost significant amounts of weight on keto diets. They lost fat, still have muscle, their blood work shows significant improvements in cholesterol and triglycerides etc. and they don’t have the gall bladder issues and other problems associated with extreme low fat diets. It doesn’t work for everyone, but there are a lot of successes.

So, sounds like you're saying there are no "good" nutritional studies, and all one can go on is "what works for me".

[jtcnj]

my wife has done the keto - the high protein / fat version on and off for a few years now.
She loses weight, but then it creeps back.
Now her cholesterol is on the high side.
I will discuss with her the points @Chocol8 has made here.

Short term dieting often does not include the lifestyle change for continued maintenance - or the plan sells you their food moving forward.
A balanced reasonable and health(ier) nutritional plan and changing bad habits is key for long term success.
It is not hard to understand; but harder to implement.

I dont like the term "on a diet". If you are not on a particular "diet", what is it when you are not on it?

[voodoorat]

my wife has done the keto - the high protein / fat version on and off for a few years now.
She loses weight, but then it creeps back.
Now her cholesterol is on the high side.
I will discuss with her the points @Chocol8 has made here.

Short term dieting often does not include the lifestyle change for continued maintenance - or the plan sells you their food moving forward.
A balanced reasonable and health(ier) nutritional plan and changing bad habits is key for long term success.
It is not hard to understand; but harder to implement.

I dont like the term "on a diet". If you are not on a particular "diet", what is it when you are not on it?

My take, and I'm no doctor or nutritionist but I have some experience with trying calorie-restrictive and low-carb diets: Yeah, from personal experience I don't know how long-term sustainable a "keto" diet is that tries to maintain a state of ketosis all the time--or why anybody would want to once they had hit their target weight: ketosis is a reaction of the human body to being literally starved of carbs where it burns alternative fuel. This is great for weight loss but it's a difficult state to maintain (since a very small quantity of sugar can make your body switch back to burning carbs for fuel) and I have no idea how healthy it would be to be in a ketosis state for an extended period of time, never mind the rest of a lifetime. The theory that I believe though is that "low" carbs (not no carbs) is sustainable and healthier than the alternative because there's a natural blood sugar level control built into it: The intense food craving/hunger that causes binge eating is not due to any actual calorie deficit but from blood sugar crashes which happen when your body responds to too much sugar too fast. I believe this, I know when I ate fewer carbs I was less hungry which made it easier to eat fewer carbs--so it's not really that hard to maintain compared to, say, sustained ketosis where you can never drink a beer or eat spaghetti again. I think the fact that it's so easy to knock yourself out of ketosis is also a downside since I think a lot of people give up because they think it's pointless to go lower carbs if you're not in ketosis.

What is important to maintaining the health benefits of dieting is getting into healthier habits and making better choices. Not always necessarily, but just given the choice between eating a slice of cake or not eating a slice of cake at least thinking about it and deciding if it's worth it or not. I think one of the most important things you can do is literally just weigh yourself every day and save the result somewhere so you know where you stand and how you're trending over time.

For reference I'm a guy who's spent most of his adult life at the high end of the 'normal' BMI range to the low end of the 'overweight' range, I'm about 20-25 lbs heavier than I'd like to be right now but not probably what most people would think of as being obese. I felt much better (and I'm sure looked better) when I was in that range. I lost about that much from my previous high (about 8-10 lbs lighter than I am now) over the course of maybe 6 months or something before on a low carb diet--mostly not in ketosis. I didn't regain it (it was pretty easy to maintain) until I completely stopped exercising and paying any attention to what I was eating during divorce stuff and now quarantine stuff. I was exercising a good bit as well, although I really think diet has a lot more to do with weight than exercise for most people.

For me, calorie restrictive/counting was extremely difficult to maintain. I don't have the extra mental energy to meal plan to that extent and track everything, and I was also *always* hungry and actively having to fight the urge to "be bad" and binge. That didn't happen on low carb because I wasn't hungry. I might want bread if I smelled it but it wasn't because I was starving, just because I like bread. I also almost immediately regained the weight when I stopped a calorie-restrictive diet because I hadn't really changed any decision-making processes, just had forced myself to be hungry all the time and when I stopped doing that I ate more calories and regained the weight. It seems to me that calorie counting would be very difficult to maintain long term unless it wound up being something like the low-carb one: But instead of avoiding carbs specifically you just considered what has a lot of calories and opted out without necessarily explicitly tracking.

[Chocol8]

The way “proper keto” became a lasting diet for me was learning to eat salad (with protein) and vegetables as the bulk of my diet, vs nearly no salads and smaller amounts of vegetables before. Also avoiding added sugars and empty starches most meals with only the occasional dessert or sweet treat.

My typical lunch is now a salad with some meat or fish vs a high carb high fat sandwich and fries type of meal.

My dinner plate usually looks more like a plate of veggiess with a side of steak (4 oz?) vs a 16 oz steak with a side of potatoes or pasta.

If I want something sweet, it’s dark chocolate or fruit, not cookies, and my beverages are always unsweetened (not diet or sugar free, unsweetened).

While I don’t stay in ketosis, and I get way more than 20 grams of net carbs most days, these are things that are easy to do even when traveling and at most restaurants, and they make a huge difference for weight maintenance.

[MichaelR]

I did it for awhile but didnt stick to it although I'm trying to get back to it. I'm diabetic so I check my blood sugar in the morning before a meal and my score went from 120 through 140 down to 85 or 90 which is normal so I know it works for this. I've never been good at eating my greens which are really important as you get older so if I do it right Keto makes me eat like I should.