HNGD.... I think. (Epiphone 335 Figured)

[Partscaster]

I bet you could do better by sweetwater, who' s got figured epi 335's. They dont just ship a case unopened. They check it out. Especially if they are asked to provide a clean model. They'll tell you if they are all slightly "off". Thats they're whole sales plan.

[Mossman]

Well, I just called AMS and told the rep the whole sordid story, and that after three guitars this is looking more like the rule rather than the exception, and that I just wanted to send it back for a refund and have done with it... BUT, I said I would be willing (in the spirit of salvaging the sale) to do an even swap for the AS93FM when they get it back in stock on March 1st. Which amounts to $110 off the retail price... I think that qualifies as an "unreasonable discount".

After a long pause, he said: "Yeah, sure!". He said they wouldn't ordinarily agree to a trade like this, but considering all the trouble I went through with the Epiphone, they wanted to make it right.

Now that's a Sweetwater level of customer service... I thought it was an audacious request, and I didn't really expect them to go for it. At best, I figured I'd get $50 or $60 off and then have to pay the balance (I already got a discount on the Epiphone, bringing the price down to $540, and the Ibanez is $650). I was genuinely surprised when they said: "ok".

You see? It never hurts to ask. If you don't ask, then you're saying "no" for them.

[Mossman]

I bet you could do better by sweetwater, who' s got figured epi 335's. They dont just ship a case unopened. They check it out. Especially if they are asked to provide a clean model. They'll tell you if they are all slightly "off". Thats they're whole sales plan.

Oh yeah, I'm a poster boy for Sweetwater. They get the vast majority of my new gear purchases, but they were out of the 335 Figured, and their website said they wouldn't have any more in stock for "a few months". AMS was literally the only retailer I could find that had them available. I never thought twice about AMS in the past, but in light of their willingness to do right by me, I would do business with them again. Sweetwater will always be my #1, though.

[Partscaster]

I bet you could do better by sweetwater, who' s got figured epi 335's. They dont just ship a case unopened. They check it out. Especially if they are asked to provide a clean model. They'll tell you if they are all slightly "off". Thats they're whole sales plan.

Oh yeah, I'm a poster boy for Sweetwater. They get the vast majority of my new gear purchases, but they were out of the 335 Figured, and their website said they wouldn't have any more in stock for "a few months". AMS was literally the only retailer I could find that had them available. I never thought twice about AMS in the past, but in light of their willingness to do right by me, I would do business with them again. Sweetwater will always be my #1, though.

I forgot, and think you mentioned the out of stock at SW earlier. Best wishes with the Ibanez.

[ID10t]

I bet you could do better by sweetwater, who' s got figured epi 335's. They dont just ship a case unopened. They check it out. Especially if they are asked to provide a clean model. They'll tell you if they are all slightly "off". Thats they're whole sales plan.

Oh yeah, I'm a poster boy for Sweetwater. They get the vast majority of my new gear purchases, but they were out of the 335 Figured, and their website said they wouldn't have any more in stock for "a few months". AMS was literally the only retailer I could find that had them available. I never thought twice about AMS in the past, but in light of their willingness to do right by me, I would do business with them again. Sweetwater will always be my #1, though.

I think you're gonna like that AS93. I am an Ibanez fanboy.

I haven't ordered from Sweetwater in a couple of years and the "Sweetwater credit card with annual fee and 29.999999% interest" offers have slowed down to only about 1 every three weeks, I was getting them TWICE a week. My credit does not merit that kind of offer. I got tired of calling the CC companies and requesting to stop sending me garbage. Sweetwater can offer the same price as everyone else and good service because they sell customer info, like everyone else. With musicians friend I don't get CC offers but after every order I get 3 calls a week from 3 different "customer we want to sell you things" people.
Gosh I am a grumpy man.

You'll love the Ibby!

[Mossman]

I forgot, and think you mentioned the out of stock at SW earlier. Best wishes with the Ibanez.

Heh... No worries. I do it all the time. And thanks. I have a feeling this guitar is going to beat the Epiphone like a rented mule.

[sabasgr68]

Well, I just called AMS and told the rep the whole sordid story, and that after three guitars this is looking more like the rule rather than the exception, and that I just wanted to send it back for a refund and have done with it... BUT, I said I would be willing (in the spirit of salvaging the sale) to do an even swap for the AS93FM when they get it back in stock on March 1st. Which amounts to $110 off the retail price... I think that qualifies as an "unreasonable discount".

After a long pause, he said: "Yeah, sure!". He said they wouldn't ordinarily agree to a trade like this, but considering all the trouble I went through with the Epiphone, they wanted to make it right.

Now that's a Sweetwater level of customer service... I thought it was an audacious request, and I didn't really expect them to go for it. At best, I figured I'd get $50 or $60 off and then have to pay the balance (I already got a discount on the Epiphone, bringing the price down to $540, and the Ibanez is $650). I was genuinely surprised when they said: "ok".

You see? It never hurts to ask. If you don't ask, then you're saying "no" for them.

I´ll be anxiously awaiting that NGD thread.

@ID10t @SamIV I became an Agile fanboy without ever having one before, and I am an Ibanez fanboy too, without ever having one before also. If there comes the day that I have any of the AR series (250, 325, 420, etc), I´ll die a happy man (or an AD3200, you can picture me happy too).

[Gergo]

Maybe try D'Angelico, if you can handle their headstock. I have a couple of their solidbodies and they are amazing. I would think that their semi-hollowbodies would be really good as well. They may be a little more expensive though

[Mossman]

I think you're gonna like that AS93. I am an Ibanez fanboy.

Ibanez has always been a kind of outlier brand for me. I've never liked their basses, but I can't knock them. Their quality is good, but they're just not for me. I did own an Artcore for a few minutes back in 2003. I don't remember the model number (I wish Japanese guitar companies would give their models NAMES), but it was a single-cut, hollow-body guitar (looked like a Les Paul, just a little bigger), with a blue-burst finish. It looked cool, but as a guitar, I thought it was kinda 'meh'. I didn't like the pickups, and I wasn't into modding back then, so I sold it a few months later for exactly what I paid for it. Nothing by Ibanez has really jumped out at me since then, but since I tend to think of them as a pointy-shreddy guitar manufacturer, maybe I never really paid enough attention.

I'm legit excited to get this guitar, though! Even more so than I was for the 335.

I haven't ordered from Sweetwater in a couple of years and the "Sweetwater credit card with annual fee and 29.999999% interest" offers have slowed down to only about 1 every three weeks, I was getting them TWICE a week. My credit does not merit that kind of offer. I got tired of calling the CC companies and requesting to stop sending me garbage. Sweetwater can offer the same price as everyone else and good service because they sell customer info, like everyone else. With musicians friend I don't get CC offers but after every order I get 3 calls a week from 3 different "customer we want to sell you things" people.
Gosh I am a grumpy man.

You'll love the Ibby!

I'm surprised to hear that. I've done a lot of transactions with Sweetwater over the years, and I have never once been solicited for a credit card, or any other similar product. I can't even remember the last time I got one of their phonebook-sized catalogs. Likewise with MF and GC. I very rarely receive any junk mail of any kind, and not much spam to speak of. Part of that is because I care about privacy, and take measures not to leave my fingerprints all over the internet, so if Sweetwater, etc., are selling my data, I'm not seeing any of the effects of that. The only thing I get are their regular email promotions, and while I rarely look at them, I don't really mind getting them.

[Mossman]

Maybe try D'Angelico, if you can handle their headstock. I have a couple of their solidbodies and they are amazing. I would think that their semi-hollowbodies would be really good as well. They may be a little more expensive though

Yeah, I like the body designs, but the headstock kills it for me... Every time I see a D'Angelico, I usually see the body first and I go: "Oooh", but then as my eyes go up to the headstock, I go: "Ugh... It's one of those." I don't think I've ever even picked one up for that reason. Sounds trite to say it out loud, but some points of aesthetics I just can't get past.

[Mossman]

I´ll be anxiously awaiting that NGD thread.

Yeah, hopefully the title of that one won't need any negative qualifiers.

[fatjack]

Well that's a heck of a deal It didn't click you were looking at the fm model I think the differences are 2 gold vs chrome and mid level super 58s vs the super 58 custom. fro what I can tell theres a lot of cork sniffery by the fanbois on pups . While a lot of players say what they have is good. Magnets are likely A5 but could be A3 depends on where the pup is made Ibby doesn't say lol.

[jtcnj]

Hope you get it sorted!
The EPI QC on that batch is disappointing, and I am very surprised.
Maybe they were made the Monday after some Chinese super bowl /new year.

I'm very happy with the AS73 I have had for a couple of years or so; it is a 2005 or 6.
I never did fret over the body shape compared to a proper 335.
I did swap pickups; I felt it needed it.
Obviously the guitars you are considering are a tier above.

I did upgrade the tuners and a bone nut. They were just ok, and I could have lived with them.
I like the guitar enough I wanted it to be better -er.

[Gergo]

Maybe try D'Angelico, if you can handle their headstock. I have a couple of their solidbodies and they are amazing. I would think that their semi-hollowbodies would be really good as well. They may be a little more expensive though

Yeah, I like the body designs, but the headstock kills it for me... Every time I see a D'Angelico, I usually see the body first and I go: "Oooh", but then as my eyes go up to the headstock, I go: "Ugh... It's one of those." I don't think I've ever even picked one up for that reason. Sounds trite to say it out loud, but some points of aesthetics I just can't get past.

I totally understand. It took me a while to get past the headstock design as well. But yeah, the bodies sure are classy

[OMB]

Squeeze all you can. I will say 2 more things it has super 58's I wish mine did they are decent but not in the 58 class. I do have the violinburst and will say they look better in person. well flamed but not overdone and the color is very much like a well aged violin or cello.Classy with just a bit of flash.

Super 58s, yeah... I knew it was Super something. I couldn't remember the number. Are the magnets A5 or A2? They sound sweet like A2s to me (and I hope they are).

It looks super swank in videos I've seen... I can only imagine it'll look better in real life. I guess it's intended to be a "jazz guitar", which are usually kinda blingy, but I like it. It's not over-done, like the Epiphone Sheraton. That guitar didn't have a single cosmetic decoration that I didn't like... I just didn't want it all on one guitar!

I just wish it didn't have gold hardware, but I think I'll get over it.

The Ibby Super 58's get a lot of praise on line. I liked them and had no intention of replacing. Like with any pickup the amp you play it through can make all the difference. I can't recall but I think it played well through all my amps. As mentioned the flame is visible but not over the top. It was very comfortable to play and I thought quite versatile. I would not consider it as primarily a jazzer. It could certainly function well in that arena but also rocks as good as you want. I mostly play 60's British, R&B and some San Fran stuff. Covers all the bases. Heck I even played some Blue Cheer on it. I did add a LesTrem to mine because of my curiosity but would probably add a B6 and Towner bar if anything. I have a B6 and Towner bar on my AS73.

My As73. They only made the Amber for a few years...

[Mossman]

Well that's a heck of a deal It didn't click you were looking at the fm model I think the differences are 2 gold vs chrome and mid level super 58s vs the super 58 custom. fro what I can tell theres a lot of cork sniffery by the fanbois on pups . While a lot of players say what they have is good. Magnets are likely A5 but could be A3 depends on where the pup is made Ibby doesn't say lol.

I did a little research into it after I read your post, and yeah, there sure is a lot of sniffery around these pickups (the Gear Page showed up a lot in my searches). I have no doubt that that the Super 58s in this guitar are Chinese-made (or maybe Korean), and not the "real" MIJ Super 58s that they put in their Prestige models, but we're talking about mass-produced, machine-wound pickups here, right? If they're made to the same specs, or sound good if they're not, then I don't see how country of origin is going to matter to me. I never even heard of these pickups until yesterday, so I've got nothing at stake here.

On the Ibanez Wiki, the only magnet type listed in the specs for the Super 58 was Alnico III, so if they're calling the Chinese/Korean versions "Super 58s", I would imagine they would have A3s in them as well... but who knows in this crazy world? Maybe I'll be able to identify the magnets with my ears. I have a pretty good general idea of what A2 and A5 humbuckers sound like by now, but I've never heard a humbucker with A3s before... Just single coils. I guess if it doesn't sound like either A2 or A5, then it must be A3. A3 seems to be an odd choice for a guitar that seems to be marketed to jazz players, though. My opinion of A3s based on the Tele pickups I had was that they had a kind of rough, unrefined character to them. They sounded downright raunchy at higher volumes. But they are weaker magnets than A2 and A5, so maybe they smooth out at lower volumes?

The Ibby Super 58's get a lot of praise on line. I liked them and had no intention of replacing. Like with any pickup the amp you play it through can make all the difference. I can't recall but I think it played well through all my amps. As mentioned the flame is visible but not over the top. It was very comfortable to play and I thought quite versatile. I would not consider it as primarily a jazzer. It could certainly function well in that arena but also rocks as good as you want. I mostly play 60's British, R&B and some San Fran stuff. Covers all the bases. Heck I even played some Blue Cheer on it. I did add a LesTrem to mine because of my curiosity but would probably add a B6 and Towner bar if anything. I have a B6 and Towner bar on my AS73.

Yeah, in general terms, I don't believe in genre specific guitars... I mean, pointy guitars and big, fat, hollow-bodies are pretty genre specific, but just about anything in between is suitable for any style of music. It's just that jazz cats dig ornate guitars, and in almost every review/demo video I've seen of this guitar, they played jazz on it. Hell, it might inspire me to learn some jazz.

I've thought about putting a Bigsby on every hollow/semi-hollow guitar I've ever owned, but I always chicken out. Apart from tuning issues, I'm afraid that it will alter the sound of the guitar, and if I like the way it sounds as it is, I never want to mess with that.

I don't know what a Towner bar is. Does that help with the tuning stability?

[Mossman]

Hope you get it sorted!
The EPI QC on that batch is disappointing, and I am very surprised.
Maybe they were made the Monday after some Chinese super bowl /new year.

As of last night, it's a done deal. I just have to lug the guitar to work, and ship it out on Monday.

This bad QC is disappointing, especially from Epiphone. They've been crushing it since 2015. The build and finish quality has gone way up, and the pickups are better than they've ever been. I've always thought of them as the top import manufacturer of arch-top guitars (not LPs, though, that still goes to Agile ), but this kind of shit reminds me of when they first transitioned all of their production to their Chinese factory back in '09/'10. It was worse back then, though... I saw a lot of really bad Casinos and Dots hanging on guitar store walls for a few years after that.

My theory for this slump is that they're just rushing these guitars out the door, trying to keep up with demand, and not getting too fussy about the details. Covid has had a big impact on guitar manufacturers. Nearly everybody is back-logged. That's why this 335 has been hard to find. This was supposed to be a birthday/Christmas gift to myself back in December, but I hadn't been able to find any retailer who had them in stock until now. And it's not just this guitar... If you peruse the majority of offerings on the major retailer's websites, you'll see a lot of "More Coming Soon!", and "Pre-Order Now!". Even the Ibanez that I'm swapping the 335 for is on back-order.

I'm very happy with the AS73 I have had for a couple of years or so; it is a 2005 or 6.
I never did fret over the body shape compared to a proper 335.
I did swap pickups; I felt it needed it.
Obviously the guitars you are considering are a tier above.

The body shape doesn't bother me at all... In fact, I like it. I was never married to the Gibson aesthetic. That's why I never spent a second feeling inferior because of the horn on my ALs. To me, they didn't have to look just like a Les Paul, they just had to look good. And they did. And so does the AS93. I just wanted to get a semi-hollow of some sort, since I haven't had one in a long time. I wasn't even planning on getting an Epiphone, since nothing they've had in the 335 category has really sparked my enthusiasm in recent years. But when this one came out, the GAS was strong.

[SamIV]

I own two guitars with the new 58’s in them. A couple Ibanez AR’s. One out of China, and I believe but not certain the other is out of Korea. They play and sound identical. The pickups are good, but don’t think they deserve the praise they get. Sound very low wound PAF like to me. Maybe the older ones were better. I have bought pickups from a Korean supplier, Guitar Madness, that I like just as well. They are good pickups, but don’t expect them to be as exceptional as the internet makes them out to be.

[Mossman]

I own two guitars with the new 58’s in them. A couple Ibanez AR’s. One out of China, and I believe but not certain the other is out of Korea. They play and sound identical. The pickups are good, but don’t think they deserve the praise they get. Sound very low wound PAF like to me. Maybe the older ones were better. I have bought pickups from a Korean supplier, Guitar Madness, that I like just as well. They are good pickups, but don’t expect them to as exceptional as the internet makes them out to be.

Guitars are made for modding! If I don't like 'em, I've got just the thing for that.

[Mossman]

My As73. They only made the Amber for a few years...

download.jpg

BTW, that looks hawt!

[OMB]

Well that's a heck of a deal It didn't click you were looking at the fm model I think the differences are 2 gold vs chrome and mid level super 58s vs the super 58 custom. fro what I can tell theres a lot of cork sniffery by the fanbois on pups . While a lot of players say what they have is good. Magnets are likely A5 but could be A3 depends on where the pup is made Ibby doesn't say lol.

I did a little research into it after I read your post, and yeah, there sure is a lot of sniffery around these pickups (the Gear Page showed up a lot in my searches). I have no doubt that that the Super 58s in this guitar are Chinese-made (or maybe Korean), and not the "real" MIJ Super 58s that they put in their Prestige models, but we're talking about mass-produced, machine-wound pickups here, right? If they're made to the same specs, or sound good if they're not, then I don't see how country of origin is going to matter to me. I never even heard of these pickups until yesterday, so I've got nothing at stake here.

On the Ibanez Wiki, the only magnet type listed in the specs for the Super 58 was Alnico III, so if they're calling the Chinese/Korean versions "Super 58s", I would imagine they would have A3s in them as well... but who knows in this crazy world? Maybe I'll be able to identify the magnets with my ears. I have a pretty good general idea of what A2 and A5 humbuckers sound like by now, but I've never heard a humbucker with A3s before... Just single coils. I guess if it doesn't sound like either A2 or A5, then it must be A3. A3 seems to be an odd choice for a guitar that seems to be marketed to jazz players, though. My opinion of A3s based on the Tele pickups I had was that they had a kind of rough, unrefined character to them. They sounded downright raunchy at higher volumes. But they are weaker magnets than A2 and A5, so maybe they smooth out at lower volumes?

The Ibby Super 58's get a lot of praise on line. I liked them and had no intention of replacing. Like with any pickup the amp you play it through can make all the difference. I can't recall but I think it played well through all my amps. As mentioned the flame is visible but not over the top. It was very comfortable to play and I thought quite versatile. I would not consider it as primarily a jazzer. It could certainly function well in that arena but also rocks as good as you want. I mostly play 60's British, R&B and some San Fran stuff. Covers all the bases. Heck I even played some Blue Cheer on it. I did add a LesTrem to mine because of my curiosity but would probably add a B6 and Towner bar if anything. I have a B6 and Towner bar on my AS73.

Yeah, in general terms, I don't believe in genre specific guitars... I mean, pointy guitars and big, fat, hollow-bodies are pretty genre specific, but just about anything in between is suitable for any style of music. It's just that jazz cats dig ornate guitars, and in almost every review/demo video I've seen of this guitar, they played jazz on it. Hell, it might inspire me to learn some jazz.

I've thought about putting a Bigsby on every hollow/semi-hollow guitar I've ever owned, but I always chicken out. Apart from tuning issues, I'm afraid that it will alter the sound of the guitar, and if I like the way it sounds as it is, I never want to mess with that.

I don't know what a Towner bar is. Does that help with the tuning stability?

The Towner bar goes in where the fixed bridge was. It provides down pressure for the strings if the break angle isn't adequate on the neck. The other option is to install a B7/B70 with roller bar but I find the Towner bar allows the B6 sensitivity that I don't find with a roller bar Bigsby.

[OMB]

Duplicate Post

[Mossman]

Aargh! I just went on the AMS website to check one of the specs on the AS93FM and I happened to notice that the expected arrival date has been pushed back by a week. It originally said they'd have more on the 1st, now it says March 8th. I hope this doesn't become a trend.

I was trying to find out what the center block is made of. It doesn't say on the Ibanez website, and for a second, I got worried that it was a fully hollow guitar. I just assumed it was a semi-hollow, and Ibanez tends to use the terms "hollow" and "semi-hollow" interchangeably. Though I've never seen a hollow body with a stop-bar tailpiece before, I wasn't satisfied until I found out for sure that it's a semi-hollow. But I still don't know what the center block is made of... probably maple.

[howardlo65]

Those minor flaws wouldn’t have bothered me in the least...on a $3500 Gibson 335 yes, on a lower priced guitar not a bit. I’m not even sure you wouldn’t be able spot flaw under very close inspection with inspection light on the Gibson. Doesn’t show up under normal lighting and from normal viewing distance fine with me.

[Mossman]

Those minor flaws wouldn’t bother me in the least...on a $3500 Gibson 335 yes, on a lower priced guitar not a bit. I’m not even sure you wouldn’t be able spot flaw under very close inspection with inspection light on the Gibson. Doesn’t show up under normal lighting and from normal viewing distance fine with me.

I've owned a lot of Epiphones, and none of them looked as bad as these last three. There's no excuse for it. I can deal with minor surface scratches and scuffs, but sloppy paint/finish work, and visible sanding scratches under the clear-coat are something else (and you didn't have to be right up on it to see these things). I can accept that kind of stuff on a $200 guitar by some no-name brand, not a $600 guitar from a company with a reputation for making quality instruments. I don't think you have to spend thousands of dollars to get a guitar that's not a sloppy mess... Especially these days. The shame of it is; Epiphone has really stepped up their game all around since 2015, in terms of build quality, finish work and pickups. This reminds me of the stuff they were churning out after they first transitioned to their Chinese factory back in 2010... Though, to be fair, the ones I saw back then were a lot worse than this.