A Guitar And Gear Support Forum

Yesterday I crossed paths with this 1960 Fender Stratocaster that has just been put on the market. It's all original except for the nut being replaced. The ashtray bridge cover and 1960s nut were in the original case. Comes with paperwork signed by George Gruhn certifying it's authenticity.

My buddy Tim Brown (owner of Browntone Electronics and builder of the world famous "Hoochee-Mama" overdrive pedal used by Billy Gibbons and many others) did a little testing.

Neck 6.1K
Middle 5.5
Bridge 5.8

A little surprising that the neck pup was stronger than the bridge, but as Tim said, back in the day they just grabbed them from the stack and installed them. The pups are strong and punchy and nail that SRV tone. Very similar tone to my Van Zandt pickups wound by the old man before he passed.

It's priced at . . . 32K? 36?K I can't remember exactly. Big number, out of my league. If you want to drop some serious coin on this thing it's at:

https://guitarwishes.com


Tim and I in between geeking out over guitars.

That makes for a nice days outing.
Klein winds a lot of his "epic" series pups with hotter neck, or close to even, based on the inspection/dissection of vintage pickups he has had.
I look around at many vintage strat threads and ads.
I figure I'm satisfied getting as close as I can partscast using good wood and electronics. Geek boutique winder Dave Stephens says the vintage wire is the biggest pickup tone factor difference than any other component..even mags. Older production methods left different impurities, and amounts in the wire which effects the signal tone. He has wound with many old wire spools, and says its very hard to find NOS from 50's/60's now. He has vids of his pups with new and NOS wire. One can hear a slight difference. The NOS has a very fine gritty background texture that the new wire seems not to have as much of...as best as I could hear in his comparison videos.

Partscaster wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 9:08 am Geek boutique winder Dave Stephens says the vintage wire is the biggest pickup tone factor difference than any other component..even mags. Older production methods left different impurities, and amounts in the wire which effects the signal tone. He has wound with many old wire spools, and says its very hard to find NOS from 50's/60's now. He has vids of his pups with new and NOS wire. One can hear a slight difference. The NOS has a very fine gritty background texture that the new wire seems not to have as much of...as best as I could hear in his comparison videos.

This is exactly what Tim told me while we were discussing the exemplary tone of the older Van Zandt Strat pickups. Apparently the "old man" had somehow got access to and bought old spools of wire from Fender, and that's what he used to wind his pickups out in the workshop.

It's true that I'm just mouthing what I've heard, but what I know to be real is that at last night's gig I played my 2001 American Series Stratocaster loaded with an older set of Van Zandt pickups and it sounded magnificent. My other American Strats can't touch that guitar with those pickups in it.

I never could bond with a Stratocaster. I love a Tele but me and the Strat do not work together.

tonebender wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 5:59 pm I never could bond with a Stratocaster. I love a Tele but me and the Strat do not work together.

I'm the exact opposite Jeff. I bond with strats but teles are a strange alien device that should be on a UFO.

toomanycats wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 7:37 am Yesterday I crossed paths with this 1960 Fender Stratocaster that has just been put on the market. It's all original except for the nut being replaced. The ashtray bridge cover and 1960s nut were in the original case. Comes with paperwork signed by George Gruhn certifying it's authenticity.

Me and my buddy Tim Brown (owner of Browntone Electronics and builder of the world famous "Hoochee-Mama" overdrive pedal used by Billy Gibbons and many others) did a little testing.

Neck 6.1K
Middle 5.5
Bridge 5.8

A little surprising that the neck pup was stronger than the bridge, but as Tim said, back in the day they just grabbed them from the stack and installed them. The pups are strong and punchy and nail that SRV tone. Very similar tone to my Van Zandt pickups wound by the old man before he passed.

It's priced at . . . 32K? 36?K I can't remember exactly. Big number, out of my league. If you want to drop some serious coin on this thing it's at:

https://guitarwishes.com


D2013D8C-074F-46AC-85A7-FDA1F7119957.jpeg


Tim and I in between geeking out over guitars.
7F381858-D36E-44E2-BC00-34FA0F683379.jpeg

Curious if your experience was similar to mine...I've tried maybe 2 early 60s strats in the last decade or so and while they were certainly good instruments absolutely nothing struck me as special about them over any other regular quality built strat...certainly not something that would make it worth the wild asking prices. I know a lot of the price is due to rarity, it's something for collectors, etc...but curious if you feel the same having played one too.

slowhand84 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 6:20 pm

toomanycats wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 7:37 am Yesterday I crossed paths with this 1960 Fender Stratocaster that has just been put on the market. It's all original except for the nut being replaced. The ashtray bridge cover and 1960s nut were in the original case. Comes with paperwork signed by George Gruhn certifying it's authenticity.

Me and my buddy Tim Brown (owner of Browntone Electronics and builder of the world famous "Hoochee-Mama" overdrive pedal used by Billy Gibbons and many others) did a little testing.

Neck 6.1K
Middle 5.5
Bridge 5.8

A little surprising that the neck pup was stronger than the bridge, but as Tim said, back in the day they just grabbed them from the stack and installed them. The pups are strong and punchy and nail that SRV tone. Very similar tone to my Van Zandt pickups wound by the old man before he passed.

It's priced at . . . 32K? 36?K I can't remember exactly. Big number, out of my league. If you want to drop some serious coin on this thing it's at:

https://guitarwishes.com


D2013D8C-074F-46AC-85A7-FDA1F7119957.jpeg


Tim and I in between geeking out over guitars.
7F381858-D36E-44E2-BC00-34FA0F683379.jpeg

Curious if your experience was similar to mine...I've tried maybe 2 early 60s strats in the last decade or so and while they were certainly good instruments absolutely nothing struck me as special about them over any other regular quality built strat...certainly not something that would make it worth the wild asking prices. I know a lot of the price is due to rarity, it's something for collectors, etc...but curious if you feel the same having played one too.

Vintage Strats feel weird in my hand due to the fretboard radius. What is it, like 7.25"? That goes for any guitar neck made to those specs, like for example my 80s Fernandes and 80s Washburn. These guitars fight me. I can never get the action where I like it due to the fact that they fret out on wide bends above the 12th fret. That's why builders like Wayne Charvel started making their own Strat style necks in the first place. The vintage necks couldn't cut it for modern playing and techniques.

The 30K+ price has a lot to do with the authenticity, the pedigree, rarity, the pride of possession the owner will get being able to say, "I own a real 1960 Fender Stratocaster."

A good analogy would be a 1936 Harley Davidson Knucklehead, a motorcycle that is highly esteemed in terms of historical importance, aesthetic excellence, and collector value. Would I like one in my garage? Sure. But would I want to ride one cross country, or even put in a single 400 mile day in that saddle? Ummm . . . no.

Ive read that variances could be significant in vintage era strats. That just makes sense using so much hand crafting. They probably had more older growth trees, but Leo F supposedly pumped out bodies with scraps glued together, as well as fewer piece bodies. The pro players likely sifted through availability and brought to our ears the best strats they could play on. There are stories about rock hero's sorting through 20 pickup sets to combine one or two sets for their gear.
So there are probably plenty of "$30K" vintage strats on the market that were "below average". As well as collectors who don't sense the difference.

I learned on a 7.25 strat neck. I accepted 9.5 as they dominated the market. I enjoy Gibson at 12 radius, and Agile at 13.7?. But now, almost all my parstscasters are back to 7.25 because it feels most natural to me. I dont play any metal or shred. I think I dont even fully know what those terms mean. For blues rock, with a medium low action (4.5/64ths) , I dont "fret out", per se.. I do feel the 7.25 can get some "string-screech" mixed into higher-fret single and double string bends that can be controllable and musically desirable. To me, its a usable characteristic I recognize from some favorite players.

I think modern instruments are made infinitely more playable, but I still enjoy noodling on decades old guitars for the novelty of it. I'm no where near rich enough to consider paying tens of thousands of dollars for a vintage guitar when I have amazing sub-$1000 guitars that outclass some of my more expensive ones. But if you need something to throw in the passenger seat of your Lambo, you do you and don't look back.

I want to say I grew up playing Gibsons & Martins, but I didn't. I grew up playing Harmony, Kay, Silvertone, Truetone & other cheap guitars.
But I grew up around people who played Martin, Gibson, Gretsch, Guild, etc.
I never heard the term "neck radius" until I was in my 30's hanging around with some guys who played Fenders.
I can honestly say, I've no idea of anything about neck radius, nor do I have a clue what it is all about
except that I know it matters a lot to people who play Fenders.

I've played a few late 50s and early 60s Strats and wasn't really blown away by them.

Played a friends' 1958 Gibson acoustic yesterday, and that was pretty impressive. Superb playability and tone.

mickey wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 6:06 pm

tonebender wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 5:59 pm I never could bond with a Stratocaster. I love a Tele but me and the Strat do not work together.

I'm the exact opposite Jeff. I bond with strats but teles are a strange alien device that should be on a UFO.

I’m cool with Strats and Teles, but anything with a wide, thin, flat neck just feels wrong to me.

@toomanycats how do I order one of those Hoochie Mama pedals? There's not as much info as I'd like on the web about them.

golem wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 8:33 am @toomanycats how do I order one of those Hoochie Mama pedals? There's not as much info as I'd like on the web about them.

I'll private message Tim's # to you and you can text him.

Vintage guitars, like modern guitars, vary a lot. That's why you had players sifting through the parts.

And I read that Leo Fender used alder because that's what skids were made of.

But when they combine right, it is magical.

I find that preferences later in life very much depend on your first "decent" guitar: the one you really learned and developed on.