Fake?

[BatUtilityBelt]

I'm convinced this '1980 pristine LP Custom' is a fake. Anyone else have an opinion?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/124700980947?h ... ition=3000

[mickey]

All I can safely say is that I had a Les Paul Custom a few years earlier than that one claims to be (about 1975)
and the "Les Paul CUSTOM" up on the truss rod cover was NOT upsidedown when it was being played AS A LEFTY.

[BatUtilityBelt]

All I can safely say is that I had a Les Paul Custom a few years earlier than that one claims to be (about 1975)
and the "Les Paul CUSTOM" up on the truss rod cover was NOT upsidedown when it was being played AS A LEFTY.

Good catch. I didn't even notice that tell.

[mickey]

I will add that I have a custom J-45 made in the 2000's and the CUSTOM on the trussrod cover IS UPSIDEDOWN when played lefty.
And there is no doubt the J-45 is real. Guess Gibson does things differently now than they did in the Norlan era?

[BatUtilityBelt]

I will add that I have a custom J-45 made in the 2000's and the CUSTOM on the trussrod cover IS UPSIDEDOWN when played lefty.
And there is no doubt the J-45 is real. Guess Gibson does things differently now than they did in the Norlan era?

I had to go look at some other 1980 lefty Les Paul Customs to see it. The ones I found were not upside-down, so apparently Gibson was paying attention to that detail on the customs. I looked hard because I always wanted a lefty LPC with that exact finish.

Here's a few things that bothered me:
The listing says the guitar is in its original case. The indentations in the case show it was used much more for a right handed LP with a pick guard than for this lefty without one. The case is not original, and without its case, how was the guitar kept so pristine for 41 years?

The pickup covers (especially the gold finish) are far too fresh for anything of that age, almost out-of-the-box perfect. Same for the jack plate.

There is no pick guard hole. It is possible no PG was ever put on it, but unlikely.

The pickup selector switch tip is wrong (should be white or black, but definitely not deeply yellow aged. A switch tip does not age that differently than the rest of the plastics. And if it has as little play time as most of the guitar suggests, there would have been no reason to replace the switch.

There is no sign of aging to the binding at all, which is highly unusual even for a closet classic.

[honyock]

Something doesn't smell right...

[aullucci]

[url]https://www.samash.com/spotlight/a-guid ... itars/[url]

I can’t help but maybe something in this article...

[mickey]

[url]https://www.samash.com/spotlight/a-guid ... itars/[url]

I can’t help but maybe something in this article...

I clicked on your link and got:


Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /spotlight/a-guide-to-counterfeit-gibson-les-paul-fender-stratocaster-and-ibanez-guitars/[url on this server.

[BatUtilityBelt]

I clicked on your link and got:
Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /spotlight/a-guide-to-counterfeit-gibson-les-paul-fender-stratocaster-and-ibanez-guitars/[url on this server.

I did too, but googled and got: https://www.samash.com/spotlight/a-guid ... z-guitars/

Good article!

[uwmcscott]

If it's a fake it's a pretty good one - the three piece neck with the volute would be expensive/time consuming to replicate which they seemed to have done. Serial and made in USA stamp seem correct for the period too and it matches a production year of 1980

The same guitar is also on reverb from what appears to be a reputable seller
https://reverb.com/item/40314063-1979-1 ... 970s-lefty

[BatUtilityBelt]

If it's a fake it's a pretty good one - the three piece neck with the volute would be expensive/time consuming to replicate which they seemed to have done. Serial and made in USA stamp seem correct for the period too and it matches a production year of 1980

The same guitar is also on reverb from what appears to be a reputable seller
https://reverb.com/item/40314063-1979-1 ... 970s-lefty

I agree that if it is fake, it's a good one. I am also not saying the seller is knowingly selling a fake - he obviously buys and sells. The serial number does check out, but it also looks unusually deeply stamped (easier to read than most).

If I thought it was real, I would shoot him an offer contingent on certifying it because anything in this price range I can't check out in person is suspect anymore, and this one just seems sketchy.

[uwmcscott]

If it's a fake it's a pretty good one - the three piece neck with the volute would be expensive/time consuming to replicate which they seemed to have done. Serial and made in USA stamp seem correct for the period too and it matches a production year of 1980

The same guitar is also on reverb from what appears to be a reputable seller
https://reverb.com/item/40314063-1979-1 ... 970s-lefty

I agree that if it is fake, it's a good one. I am also not saying the seller is knowingly selling a fake - he obviously buys and sells. The serial number does check out, but it also looks unusually deeply stamped (easier to read than most).

If I thought it was real, I would shoot him an offer contingent on certifying it because anything in this price range I can't check out in person is suspect anymore, and this one just seems sketchy.

The serial does seem to be stamped awfully deep, but Gibson aslo wasn't exactly the most consistent back then either.

I can say that for a Norlin era guitar, that has a killer looking top on it, especially on a custom. Usually you'd only see that on a standard or standard plus.

[tonebender]

I would not buy it without Gibson telling me it was made by them. For what it is worth the Chibson's are actually not very good attempts at fooling people but more just a way for someone who can't afford the real thing to rock a guitar with Gibson on the headstock. Most are photo tops and the backs too and are made to look like they are two piece but when you look at the edge it's a 5 piece. No attempt to hide that. They have hardware common to Epiphone LP's. That said they can be altered to be more like the real thing.

[BatUtilityBelt]

I would not buy it without Gibson telling me it was made by them. For what it is worth the Chibson's are actually not very good attempts at fooling people but more just a way for someone who can't afford the real thing to rock a guitar with Gibson on the headstock. Most are photo tops and the backs too and are made to look like they are two piece but when you look at the edge it's a 5 piece. No attempt to hide that. They have hardware common to Epiphone LP's. That said they can be altered to be more like the real thing.

I'm with you on certifying it. As far as fakes go, I ran into a scary good fake of a Fender 52 reissue a few years back, in person. Craigslist seller, working out of a house where he didn't live, but was apparently doing some carpentry work. The only things that didn't check out were the serial number (impossible to date) and the frets were too tall. The rest was dead-on like a 52 reissue.

[BatUtilityBelt]

I noticed a couple more things that were off about it, so I asked the seller for any history/authentication. What more seems off:

1. The back of the headstock really should be black, not transparent.
2. The wiring looks a bit wrong and under 2 pots wood was re-routed, but many people mod their guitars.
3. The bridge is slanted, but in the wrong direction. This guitar might not even intonate properly.
4. The burst just doesn't look consistent with other 1980 Tobacco Customs (and there's even another lefty 1980 LPC on ebay to compare).

[Mossman]

That bridge is just wrong. That does it for me. Could somebody at the Gibson factory have drilled the stud holes for a right-handed guitar by mistake and it got all the way through production and out the door without anyone noticing? Maybe... But I doubt it.

This may be nothing, but that looks like a hand-rubbed burst (not sprayed). Was Gibson doing hand-rubbed finishes on Customs in 1980?

I agree that the pickup covers and hardware look too new as well. The gold plating should be tarnished from oxidation by now, even if it's been sitting in a case untouched for 40 years. Of course, all those things can be replaced.

Great looking guitar, but sketchy looking deal.

[BatUtilityBelt]

That bridge is just wrong. That does it for me. Could somebody at the Gibson factory have drilled the stud holes for a right-handed guitar by mistake and it got all the way through production and out the door without anyone noticing? Maybe... But I doubt it.

This may be nothing, but that looks like a hand-rubbed burst (not sprayed). Was Gibson doing hand-rubbed finishes on Customs in 1980?

I agree that the pickup covers and hardware look too new as well. The gold plating should be tarnished from oxidation by now, even if it's been sitting in a case untouched for 40 years. Of course, all those things can be replaced.

Great looking guitar, but sketchy looking deal.

I had the same thoughts on the wrong righty slanted bridge and the appearance of a hand rubbed stain. I mean it looks great, but doesn't look 1980 Gibson.

Edit: The seller got back to me on the question of provenance and authenticity, said I could check the serial number. I told him that was no guarantee and that there were certainly reasons to question its authenticity... we'll see where this goes, but I already reported it to Gibson as a possible fake to check out at https://www.gibson.com/Support/Report-Counterfeits

[Mossman]

I had the same thoughts on the wrong righty slanted bridge and the appearance of a hand rubbed stain. I mean it looks great, but doesn't look 1980 Gibson.

Edit: The seller got back to me on the question of provenance and authenticity, said I could check the serial number. I told him that was no guarantee and that there were certainly reasons to question its authenticity... we'll see where this goes, but I already reported it to Gibson as a possible fake to check out at https://www.gibson.com/Support/Report-Counterfeits

Really?? HE brought up the serial number as evidence that it's genuine?? If he's a real guitar dealer, then HE ought to know that that's no proof at all. This stinks more and more... Good on you for calling it in to Gibson, and if they say it's a fake, then that seller should be run off of Reverb.

[edit]

Actually, isn't trying to sell a counterfeit guitar as genuine an arrestable offense?

[BatUtilityBelt]

Really?? HE brought up the serial number as evidence that it's genuine?? If he's a real guitar dealer, then HE ought to know that that's no proof at all. This stinks more and more... Good on you for calling it in to Gibson, and if they say it's a fake, then that seller should be run off of Reverb.

Actually, isn't trying to sell a counterfeit guitar as genuine an arrestable offense?

Yes, he sure did, and he deals a lot of gear. He obviously knows better than to suggest the serial number is the proof you need. I don't know of any arrest stories except for outright guitar thefts, but I'll bet Gibson does not take kindly to it. When submitting to Gibson, there was no contact information given, so I don't think I'll hear what happens on their end.

[Mossman]

Yes, he sure did, and he deals a lot of gear. He obviously knows better than to suggest the serial number is the proof you need. I don't know of any arrest stories except for outright guitar thefts, but I'll bet Gibson does not take kindly to it. When submitting to Gibson, there was no contact information given, so I don't think I'll hear what happens on their end.

So I guess there's no kind of reward, huh?

Man, back in the day, you'd get a nominal reward when you drop a dime to stop a crime.

Well, that was the police. Not Gibson.

And a long time ago.

Nevermind.

[BatUtilityBelt]

So I guess there's no kind of reward, huh?

Man, back in the day, you'd get a nominal reward when you drop a dime to stop a crime.

Well, that was the police. Not Gibson.

And a long time ago.

Nevermind.

Nope, probably no free guitar for a good deed, but I think getting a convincing looking fake off the street would be a pretty good reward to all of us prospective buyers. If fake, it is a scary good fake. Add it all up and it sure sounds fake. The bridge clinches it to me.

[uwmcscott]

I noticed a couple more things that were off about it, so I asked the seller for any history/authentication. What more seems off:

1. The back of the headstock really should be black, not transparent.
2. The wiring looks a bit wrong and under 2 pots wood was re-routed, but many people mod their guitars.
3. The bridge is slanted, but in the wrong direction. This guitar might not even intonate properly.
4. The burst just doesn't look consistent with other 1980 Tobacco Customs (and there's even another lefty 1980 LPC on ebay to compare).

The bridge is definitely odd, but the back of the headstock is correct - it would only be black if it were a black guitar.

It's likely a mystery that will only be solved by someone checking it out in person though, pics on the internet are not good enough to know the whole story.

[Sinster]

That's a hot top!!!!

[BatUtilityBelt]

I noticed a couple more things that were off about it, so I asked the seller for any history/authentication. What more seems off:

1. The back of the headstock really should be black, not transparent.
2. The wiring looks a bit wrong and under 2 pots wood was re-routed, but many people mod their guitars.
3. The bridge is slanted, but in the wrong direction. This guitar might not even intonate properly.
4. The burst just doesn't look consistent with other 1980 Tobacco Customs (and there's even another lefty 1980 LPC on ebay to compare).

The bridge is definitely odd, but the back of the headstock is correct - it would only be black if it were a black guitar.

It's likely a mystery that will only be solved by someone checking it out in person though, pics on the internet are not good enough to know the whole story.

I disagree. I have shopped for an 80's tobacco burst Custom for years, and the backs of those headstocks look like this:

[BatUtilityBelt]

That's a hot top!!!!

It is! So sad this possibly fake 1980 Custom (right) looks better than the real 1980 Custom (left).