A Guitar And Gear Support Forum

Because of the success of the AD-3200MCC, Kurt mentioned that he's open to other ideas we might have. As part of that previous project, @TVvoodoo came up with a flat top symmetrical double cutaway version of the classic Gibson Junior/Special double cutaway that I personally liked more than the original it was based on.

I tried this once before and submitted what I thought was a great design from @Mossman for a reissue of the original AD-2200 but unfortunately, one too many cooks in the Rondo kitchen resulted in the AD-2250 travesty.

Before this one gets pitched, I thought I'd solicit realistic ideas on specs and finishes as well as opinions on the design itself. So let me know what you think and it's something you might be interested in. FWIW, with the current production timeline, the soonest anything could possibly be available would be the beginning of next year.

Below are a couple of Brad's renderings:

My vote - Archtop Harm, spec'ed like a 3100mcc (maple top, fully bound, etc)

mighty_duck wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:22 am My vote - Archtop Harm, spec'ed like a 3100mcc (maple top, fully bound, etc)

image.png

Love the look of that concept. My concern is that it could weigh 15 + pounds.

The only double cut that would cause me to spend money at the moment would be a CSB Harm 1.

Harm 1 like @mickey said

ILuvTeles wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:32 am Harm 1 like @mickey said

IIRC, there were a couple right-handed ones in stock a few months back listed at I think around $450. I haven't seen a new lefty in years. FWIW, A lefty CSB Harm was the first Agile, new or used, I ever bought (March 2014)...

tobijohn wrote:

ILuvTeles wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:32 am Harm 1 like @mickey said

IIRC, there were a couple right-handed ones in stock a few months back listed at I think around $450. I haven't seen a new lefty in years. FWIW, A lefty CSB Harm was the first Agile, new or used, I ever bought (March 2014)...

Pretty sure I have the last new lefty Harm 1 in CSB (aka FG) Rondo sold. That was $289.95 in 2017.

toomanycats wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:10 am

mighty_duck wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:22 am My vote - Archtop Harm, spec'ed like a 3100mcc (maple top, fully bound, etc)

image.png

Love the look of that concept. My concern is that it could weigh 15 + pounds.

I hear that!
But there's no reason to expect it will be heavier than an AL-3100mcc, and those have been averaging around 9 pounds for the last few years.
Add in a tummy carve in the back, maybe reduce the overall depth by another 0.25", and it could weigh around 8 pounds on average.
The original ones were listed at 9 pounds, but with an extra pickup, and a pickguard that I would lose.
https://www.rondomusic.com/harm3solid.html
https://chrisguitars2.com/product/agile ... d-archtop/

Looking at this as a 2200 style flat top double cut, I would spec it much like the 2250 but with a symmetrical body and solid or trans paint colors. No burst, no bling, but definitely needs to be intonationatable unlike a flipped Benton!

22 frets maybe 24 even
Ebony board, rosewood or other dark OK if cheap.
Simple dot inlays
TOM bridge or similar.
Dual soap bar P90
4 pots
3 way switch
60’s style thinner neck
Tummy cut

I would be open to lighter body woods vs mahogany.
No pick guard standard (offer them optional?)
I would do fun colors and (mostly?) avoid traditional Gibson and Fender classics that aren’t quite right anyway.

Chocol8 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:15 pm Looking at this as a 2200 style flat top double cut, I would spec it much like the 2250 but with a symmetrical body and solid or trans paint colors. No burst, no bling, but definitely needs to be intonationatable unlike a flipped Benton!

22 frets maybe 24 even
Ebony board, rosewood or other dark OK if cheap.
Simple dot inlays
TOM bridge or similar.
Dual soap bar P90
4 pots
3 way switch
60’s style thinner neck
Tummy cut

I would be open to lighter body woods vs mahogany.
No pick guard standard (offer them optional?)
I would do fun colors and (mostly?) avoid traditional Gibson and Fender classics that aren’t quite right anyway.

Primarily to keep costs down and actually get it done, I would expect specs to be almost exactly the same as the AD-2200 Reissue and AD-2250. Kurt had commented on how difficult and expensive it was to find a left-handed compensated wraparound so the bridge will almost assuredly be a TOM unless he thinks he can get away with using that cheap MIC Bad Ass style one (that's what's on the HB lefty DC Jrs). I agree with your finish opinion, I think in particular, those in the bottom row of the picture above would do pretty well...

The bottom 2 rows are OK with me but none are great. Lose the black pick guard and stock a dozen for a $10 add on for people who really want it. I would love to see a few colors with cream P90’s too. Maybe a forest green or burgundy and cream.

I feel strange saying this, but minor differences from what I already have make me not really care about another DC.

I would be more interested in guitars with new tonal options from uncommon features. For example, I only have one Les Paul Recording type guitar and have never seen another for sale (lefty), but would buy more along those lines because they can do a lot more tonally.

Chocol8 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:47 pm The bottom 2 rows are OK with me but none are great. Lose the black pick guard and stock a dozen for a $10 add on for people who really want it. I would love to see a few colors with cream P90’s too. Maybe a forest green or burgundy and cream.

Those aren't the colors we have to choose from, just some filters Brad used when he created the image. I like your color suggestions though...

I like the TVVoodoo symmetrical maybe minihumbuckers and as for color say skyblue or coke bottle green I like the Chocol8 or Tobijohn specs. Or a lefty Harm would get my attention depending on price.

Probably not interested at agile prices. A simple SX flat top dc jr for $150ish especially in a open pore thin or oil finish, hell yes!
How about an SX high fret access fixed neck flying V for 150. There is nothing like that out there currently and I think Kurt would sell 100 of them.
Would you throw the flying V idea at him? Anyone who wants by all reports an excellent little lp dcjr, can get it fairly regularly at firefly. I'm sure the fine touches will be a step above but the whole point of a jr to me is as a budget rocker.

You know I`m with John, and not just because i cooked it up, but i like the DC more the more I look at it, but I also agree with nomad that a V would be awesome... but maybe a BFGV with bridge hum/neck p90 V in natural OMG, would be the shiznit under even 175. I would buy one in a heartbeat specially with an intonatable wrapper. and arrowhead sort of headstock. Kurt hasn`t offered up a v for years and years.

Personally, no insult to the guitarists that helped design the Harm, to me it looks like vintage Russian guitar, and not nearly as good as the washburn idol body style.

As an FYI, while i haven't yet mentioned the demand for Harms, you can figure these days the list will be around $450. I'm not sure how enthusiastic everybody would be about one at that price point.

Also, I've got to ask about how much input he has with SX as to models. We know he can get the Agile headstock and horn onto their base models, not sure about something completely unique (although I do remember years ago the Douglas Ceti which was a copy of the Harm):

https://www.rondomusic.com/cetihum2ts1.html

Not sure about a V with the Gibson dimensions and headstock. Was an Agile/SX/Douglas version of that ever offered?

I would be happy to pay a bit more for one with really good pups, quarter size brass shaft pots and 5 way switch. Maybe mix it up with a mini-humbucker in the neck and humbucker in the bridge. I was always curious of the Epi Nancy Wilson Nighthawk they have a MH/M just not a big Epi fan so I never bought one but really like the concept.

tobijohn wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:23 am As an FYI, while i haven't yet mentioned the demand for Harms, you can figure these days the list will be around $450. I'm not sure how enthusiastic everybody would be about one at that price point.

I paid more than that for the used Harm1 I have.

Can Kay-Z sell something that will make me a better player?
Something that will get me to sit still for lessons?

if there's one person that handle this job, and make this happen, (other than johnny), it's Truk of Odnor. We should get him involved.

FWIW, I mentioned to Kurt the Harm love and also asked about the possibility of going the SX/Douglas/Hadean route to keep the price point down. I'll update if/when he responds.

However, as mentioned before, the supply chain is backed up to the point that even if the order went in tomorrow, the beginning of 2022 would be the soonest anything would be available...

Not at all moved by a Les Paul Special style double cut. Pretty common and don't like the wrap around tailpiece.

Now, to bring back the Harm archtop would be awesome, simply because of it's uniqueness. Maybe with mini humbuckers, and P90's in addition to humbuckers. That three humbucker version looks really interesting.

I would have no problem with the Agile price point for the Agile with better specs.

I wouldn’t buy a Harm unless it has some form of centered fret inlays. Dots would be fine.

Chocol8 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:45 pm I wouldn’t buy a Harm unless it has some form of centered feet inlays. Dots would be fine.

Which color?