New Agile AD-3200 now comes with Giovanni pickups. Or do they really?

Gergo · Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:06 am

I just recently got the Blue Quilt AL-3200. First, let me start by saying that if all of the 3200's from this batch are as good as this one, then this is a really good batch. The build quality is stellar, and the fretwork is stellar. It's the best out of the box 3200 that I have gotten from Rondo.

If you notice, in the specs, Rondo now states that these come with the Giovanni GVH-1 humbuckers, which is a huge improvement over the G&B pickups. When I received this guitar, I compared the sound of these pickups with aftermarket Giovanni GVH-2 humbuckers that I had put in my AD-3200. I was a little shocked, because the GVH-2 sounded less hot, clearer, and a little more full to me. Of course, it is a different pickup (A3 magnets vs A5 magnets)....but still. I pulled the pickups and looked. They do have a GVH-1 sticker, but not the Giovanni logo, and the color of the lead is different. They are also stamped N and B, while the aftermarket Giovanni's are not.

Do you think they may just have more simple baseplates on pickups made to go in guitars as stock pickups and save the fancier baseplates with logo for their aftermarket pickups....and that the difference in sound is just my imagination? Or, does something just not seem right here. I mean, anyone can print out little stickers and stick them on anything.

Giovanni GHV-1 from a Reverb listing

: tuki03kdod028vonbyhq.jpg (23.53 KiB) Viewed 4627 times

What is in this guitar:

fatjack · Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:39 am

Different pickup with the a3s instead of 5 that's one difference. Who knows if they are wound the same with the same wire or not? Could be several things happening.

uwmcscott · Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:43 am

Gergo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:06 am Do you think they may just have more simple baseplates on pickups made to go in guitars as stock pickups and save the fancier baseplates with logo for their aftermarket pickups....and that the difference in sound is just my imagination? Or, does something just not seem right here. I mean, anyone can print out little stickers and stick them on anything.

To be honest it's probably you over-thinking it. OEM parts are many times different from off-the shelf items. And as you mention they are different models/magnets anyway. Enjoy it and HNGD, sounds like it's a winner overall.

Tonray's Ghost · Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:34 pm

"Giovanni Designed" ? Manufactured by someone else. Similar with Wilkinson brand, there are licensees all over (mainly China) with permission to make and sell Wilkinson pickups.. Maybe as good but maybe different too.

Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:59 pm

Would be nice to see a few pics of the Axe.

BrianSkeezer · Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:10 pm

I have 2 sets of the GVH2s, and both sets have different baseplates from one another. One set has the brass baseplates with the Giovanni script, the other has the nickel silver plates with just the sticker. Both were purchased from the same seller on Reverb, but the nickel silver plates were purchased more recently.

Gergo · Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:00 pm

BrianSkeezer wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:10 pm I have 2 sets of the GVH2s, and both sets have different baseplates from one another. One set has the brass baseplates with the Giovanni script, the other has the nickel silver plates with just the sticker. Both were purchased from the same seller on Reverb, but the nickel silver plates were purchased more recently.

Oh okay. Interesting. Thanks for the info

Gergo · Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:02 pm

Tonray's Ghost wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:34 pm "Giovanni Designed" ? Manufactured by someone else. Similar with Wilkinson brand, there are licensees all over (mainly China) with permission to make and sell Wilkinson pickups.. Maybe as good but maybe different too.

I was unaware that the budget brands did that! Thanks

Gergo · Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:09 pm

Well, so its suggested that these may be some licensed pickup made in China to Artec specs, and it has also been suggested that some of the newer ones are like this.

The only thing that I know for sure is that they're coming out. If this is really a legitimate made by Arctic Giovanni, then I don't really know what the big deal is. I did a side-by-side comparison with some DiMarzio 35th Anniversary humbuckers I have in another Al 3200 and these don't even compare. They are not even in the same ballpark as the GVH-2 set that I have. I figured that the sound quality would be at least similar to the GVH-2 (which are pretty damn good to be honest). Sad

Gergo · Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:50 pm

uwmcscott wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:43 am
Gergo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:06 am Do you think they may just have more simple baseplates on pickups made to go in guitars as stock pickups and save the fancier baseplates with logo for their aftermarket pickups....and that the difference in sound is just my imagination? Or, does something just not seem right here. I mean, anyone can print out little stickers and stick them on anything.
To be honest it's probably you over-thinking it. OEM parts are many times different from off-the shelf items. And as you mention they are different models/magnets anyway. Enjoy it and HNGD, sounds like it's a winner overall.

I hear where your coming from. Different magnets, they are gonna sound a little different, but man...... the sound quality drop off of these when comparing them to the GVH-2 is stunning. I figured that they would at least be on the same level of quality. That is what makes me question if these are even legit.

Gergo · Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:54 pm

LightWingStudios wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:59 pm Would be nice to see a few pics of the Axe.

Yeah....I am planning on doing a proper review, perhaps after all the Christmas stuff. I am extremely extremely happy with the build.

uwmcscott · Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:12 am

Gergo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:50 pm I hear where your coming from. Different magnets, they are gonna sound a little different, but man...... the sound quality drop off of these when comparing them to the GVH-2 is stunning. I figured that they would at least be on the same level of quality. That is what makes me question if these are even legit.

Even if they aren't, when was the last time anyone bought a rondo guitar specifically for the pickups? Sounds like you ended up with a winner overall quality wise on the guitar itself. Unless there was some kind of upcharge specifically for the pickups themselves, I'd call it a win.

Gergo · Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:40 am

uwmcscott wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:12 am
Gergo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:50 pm I hear where your coming from. Different magnets, they are gonna sound a little different, but man...... the sound quality drop off of these when comparing them to the GVH-2 is stunning. I figured that they would at least be on the same level of quality. That is what makes me question if these are even legit.
Even if they aren't, when was the last time anyone bought a rondo guitar specifically for the pickups? Sounds like you ended up with a winner overall quality wise on the guitar itself. Unless there was some kind of upcharge specifically for the pickups themselves, I'd call it a win.

It is a great guitar. The price is now $50 more however....but whatever.

nomadh · Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:52 am

Anything that has passed in or around or could of possibly passed by china without full documented chain of custody could be from a chinese forger. Even copies of other chinese products. And then it could be of a quality that's decent to something totally craptacular. It's sad but that's what happens when we suck from the warm tit of chinese communism.

redman · Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:50 pm

I bought an AL 3200 in June of this year that IMO is flawless. Fit and finish is superb the frets are perfect and needed nothing out of the box except the 2nd (B) string need tuned a bit. I've never looked at the pups but they sound much better than my AL 3010. It's close to needing new strings so when I change them I'll pull the pups and report back as to what I find.

Tonray's Ghost · Thu Dec 24, 2020 6:31 pm

Gergo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:02 pm
Tonray's Ghost wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:34 pm "Giovanni Designed" ? Manufactured by someone else. Similar with Wilkinson brand, there are licensees all over (mainly China) with permission to make and sell Wilkinson pickups.. Maybe as good but maybe different too.
I was unaware that the budget brands did that! Thanks

Here is an example...this is posted by one of the vendors selling Wilkinson Chinese manufactured stuff:

doc-knapp · Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:53 pm

I find it hysterical that Kurt actually took our advice from several years ago and finally decided to upgrade the pickups in the Agiles. The Giovanni GVH line by Artec is an incredibly good value pickup line. Not the best, but decently in the upper middle of the pack, especially for their ridiculously low price.

Partscaster · Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:45 am

I have sets of GVH-2 and GVH-59 and a stray that I think is GVH-1, in a drawer. Probably bought from 2014-2016. Also have some in a few guitars.
The ones I've looked at all have the Giovanni stamped bottom plate.
It could be that the Giovanni models have earned themselves enough good reputation that they are now being cheapened down by licensed manufacturers outside of Artec, to be just for import guitar marketing. That would be kinda sad.

I do believe the old Artec ads referred to heavy formvar for gvh-2, and enamel for gvh-1 and 59 models.
Also I think their adds used to promote some care being taken in a machine controlled winding pattern and a specific potting wax blend.
Perhaps alternate artec licensed manufacturers can just slam a sticker on less styled productions, now?
Or maybe Artec has cheapened the Giovanni line.
The positive reviews for stamped bottom Artec GVH-1,2,& 59, are prevalent.

Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:17 pm

I've got an AD-3200MCC from the first batch and an AL-3200MCC from a bit before that but have not looked at the pickups. I've also got two AD-3200MCCs on the way from this latest batch, HBs and stacked/split P90s (I asked Kurt to hold off shipping until I'm back in town this weekend). I'll take a look at all of them once I've returned. Artec is probably the largest pickup manufacturer in the world so I think it's unlikely that they would license another pickup manufacturer to make Giovannis. I think if anything, they just cheapened the components on these OEM versions. I also had suggested to Kurt that the 3100/3200 pickups were the weak link in the chain and as part of the AD project that he might want to consider Giovannis and/or Toneriders going forward. It's nice to know that he's open to suggestions even though whatever these are might still be a little disappointing...

Gergo · Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:12 pm

Partscaster wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:45 am I have sets of GVH-2 and GVH-59 and a stray that I think is GVH-1, in a drawer. Probably bought from 2014-2016. Also have some in a few guitars.
The ones I've looked at all have the Giovanni stamped bottom plate.
It could be that the Giovanni models have earned themselves enough good reputation that they are now being cheapened down by licensed manufacturers outside of Artec, to be just for import guitar marketing. That would be kinda sad.

I do believe the old Artec ads referred to heavy formvar for gvh-2, and enamel for gvh-1 and 59 models.
Also I think their adds used to promote some care being taken in a machine controlled winding pattern and a specific potting wax blend.
Perhaps alternate artec licensed manufacturers can just slam a sticker on less styled productions, now?
Or maybe Artec has cheapened the Giovanni line.
The positive reviews for stamped bottom Artec GVH-1,2,& 59, are prevalent.

I am thinking that these may be cheapened versions made by a licensed manufacturer to be put in import guitars and not sold as their aftermarket pickups. It is not a bad sounding pickup by any means, and a definite improvement over the G&B, but it is still not quite up to par with the versions with the stamped baseplate.

Gergo · Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:18 pm

tobijohn wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:17 pm I've got an AD-3200MCC from the first batch and an AL-3200MCC from a bit before that but have not looked at the pickups. I've also got two AD-3200MCCs on the way from this latest batch, HBs and stacked/split P90s (I asked Kurt to hold off shipping until I'm back in town this weekend). I'll take a look at all of them once I've returned. Artec is probably the largest pickup manufacturer in the world so I think it's unlikely that they would license another pickup manufacturer to make Giovannis. I think if anything, they just cheapened the components on these OEM versions. I also had suggested to Kurt that the 3100/3200 pickups were the weak link in the chain and as part of the AD project that he might want to consider Giovannis and/or Toneriders going forward. It's nice to know that he's open to suggestions even though whatever these are might still be a little disappointing...

I am thinking that they are a cheaper version made to be put in import guitars as opposed to the ones they sell as aftermarket pickups. Don't get me wrong though, they are not bad sounding pickups, and are a definite improvement over the G&B pickups. They are just not quite as good as the ones with the stamped baseplate. To me they are just not quite as full sounding and the string definition is a hair worse.

tony1852 · Mon Mar 21, 2022 12:05 pm

OK, so I was graciously directed to this old thread when I asked about the Giovanni's still listed on the Rondo site for some AL-3200mcc's but gone from the AD-3200mccs.

Bought my AL-3200mcc in mid 2020. The pickups measure at 12.8 and 8.2. ohms in circuit. Have no idea what they are. They're not bad, but not great for sure.

toomanycats · Mon Mar 21, 2022 12:26 pm

tony1852 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 12:05 pm OK, so I was graciously directed to this old thread when I asked about the Giovanni's still listed on the Rondo site for some AL-3200mcc's but gone from the AD-3200mccs.

Bought my AL-3200mcc in mid 2020. The pickups measure at 12.8 and 8.2. ohms in circuit. Have no idea what they are. They're not bad, but not great for sure.

They could be G&B, which are ubiquitous in many Korean made guitars, including PRS, Agile, and so on. If that's what they are there should be an indication of it on the bottom of the baseplate. Also, if that's what they are they are known to be sorta blah.

Incidentally, I sent a pair of yanked G&B pups that were just laying around collecting dust to @mozz and he rewound them, unbalanced the coils, put in higher quality screws, changed magnets, and did whatever other proprietary mojo he does, and when I got them back they sounded amazing. So there is hope for them, if you're willing to do some tweaking.

tony1852 · Mon Mar 21, 2022 2:19 pm

I wish I had that kind of skill, lol! It would probably be better for me to get something off the shelf like Giovannis, or see if I could wake up Tim and get a pair of Buddha's. I'd hate to spend like $20-$40 x2 for some Giovanni's and not be happy. Of course, I'm guessing a pair of Buddha's would set me back much more than that. How do you guys get the tone you are looking for from your guitars? Is it more the pickups or the amps?

tony1852 · Mon Mar 21, 2022 5:50 pm

So here's what I got from Kurt regarding the upgraded Giovanni pickups:

'The GVH-1 pickups started appearing in mid (made after June) 2020 3100 and 3200MCC models. They are currently used in all 3100 and 3200MCC models'.

So even though it doesn't say it on the 3100mcc models on the Rondo site, looks like they're supposed to have them too. Unless they've been in stock since mid 2020, which I find pretty hard to believe.

If anyone picked up a recent 3100 or 3200mcc and felt like verifying, it would be interesting. Or, if someone doesn't like the GVH-1 pickups they received and swapped them out, I'd be willing to take them off your hands and test them out!