A Guitar And Gear Support Forum

I can't say that I "knew" this - I'd read/heard this somewhere and back in the early 2000's when I wanted to get back into electrics, that's how I picked out my Brownsville GG1 - a loose LP standard copy from Sam Ash house brand (likely made by SX as it even shares the model number). It had the price and all the trappings of a cheap knockoff guitar, but it was HEAVY (13lb.) and just so resonant acoustically - LOUD. I still have it (after some mods) and it's among the best guitar buys for me.

Yesterday I was watching some Gary Moore videos and came across an interview where he talks about guitars, and he's playing a tele, an ES-335, among other things. He also mentions that the way to pick out a [solid body] guitar is to see if it sounds good unplugged (he proceeds to strum his Les Paul without going into an amp). It needs to be resonant and sound good. It was interesting to hear this from him.



But my LP-type guitars appear to be louder unplugged than bolt-on type "fender type" guitars. Of course, it might also be the function of scale length and string gauges. Have you observed that as well? Are your telecasters loud and resonant when strummed unplugged?

To me this is one of those "if it matters to you, then it matters" things. So many things go into the tone of an amplified guitar that I doubt any one of them is really a deal breaker - unless one personally thinks it is. Gary moore could probably have picked up the deadest sounding Les Paul in the room at a guitar shop and made it sing and rip like nobody's business.

I think it depends. Higher gain, more effects etc, and the acoustic tone will matter very little if at all. Super clean, you may find a noticeable difference especially in the sustain more so than the amplified tone.

uwmcscott wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:57 pm To me this is one of those "if it matters to you, then it matters" things. So many things go into the tone of an amplified guitar that I doubt any one of them is really a deal breaker - unless one personally thinks it is. Gary moore could probably have picked up the deadest sounding Les Paul in the room at a guitar shop and made it sing and rip like nobody's business.

1. I agree with clarifications. I'm sure that a good pickup going through good cable into a good amp will produce a good sound. But the sound still starts with the string vibrating in the pickup's field. That is what's amplified. There were plywood guitars made in USSR, still notorious for how bad they were in all parameters, including tone. We could even throw in cheap strings into the equation.

2. Yes, Gary and any proficient guitar/bass player could pick up any instrument and play it better than anyone else with inferior skills... that's not the point. The point is that most musicians choose not to do it - like Gary says in the video. We could still be riding in horse buggies and it would work better than walking. Any musician, professional or even amateur tends to care about tone, especially when paying own money. So we tend to look for instruments that make us happy.

3. Wood is a great, but irregular material. So there's potential for nice resonant slabs as well as the occasional "dead" sounding ones.

4. I realize that some players and styles might favor just the amplified vibration of the string, without regard for material. That's why they'll usually like active pickup systems, like EMG and they would probably like those wonder-plastic guitars made from luthite or plexiglass or whatever - materials that are more "regular", more consistent than wood. But other players likely want the unique tone that comes from a wooden instrument.

That's my subjective take

This has been a trope for as long as there have been solid-body electric guitars, and I don't buy it. I don't believe in tonewood, either. I've picked up guitars/basses that sounded utterly unremarkable unplugged, but great when amplified, and vice verse. Intuitively it makes sense that the sound of an anamplified guitar would inform you of how it will sound plugged in, but all it tells you is how the guitar sounds unamplified. Since I've always practiced and performed with an amp, I don't care what a guitar sounds like unamplified.

Mossman wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:55 pm This has been a trope for as long as there have been solid-body electric guitars, and I don't buy it. I don't believe in tonewood, either. I've picked up guitars/basses that sounded utterly unremarkable unplugged, but great when amplified, and vice verse. Intuitively it makes sense that the sound of an anamplified guitar would inform you of how it will sound plugged in, but all it tells you is how the guitar sounds unamplified. Since I've always practiced and performed with an amp, I don't care what a guitar sounds like unamplified.

I agree with solid body, there is some evidence with a semi or full hollow that it will tell you something about the amplified tone. Perhaps to me however, the most important part of playing a solid body unlplugged is that it will show flaws in setup very quickly. I have had electrics that badly needed a setup, frettting out, no relief in neck, etc etc...but still sounded remarkably Ok when plugged in. Playing them unplugged brings these flaws out immediately.

I have never chosen an electric guitar based on how it sounds unplugged. I never play it that way unless I’m just noodling around.

As was mentioned earlier, if it’s important to you, it matters. It just doesn’t matter to me

it's never been something i've taken note of especially. to me every guitar just sounds different (even when you try to replicate them). i have no idea exactly what all determines whether or not a specific guitar sounds good to my ear - particularly for a solid body electric. it's never seemed like something i had any real control over beyond quality components.

Tonray's Ghost wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:01 pm I agree with solid body, there is some evidence with a semi or full hollow that it will tell you something about the amplified tone.

Agreed, that only applies to solid-body guitars. And the species of wood does indeed make a difference in acoustic and semi-acoustic guitars. That's how we got the whole tonewood debacle in the first place. People trying to apply the same principles to an instrument that's as far away in construction and architecture as you can get.

Tonray's Ghost wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:01 pm Perhaps to me however, the most important part of playing a solid body unlplugged is that it will show flaws in setup very quickly. I have had electrics that badly needed a setup, frettting out, no relief in neck, etc etc...but still sounded remarkably Ok when plugged in. Playing them unplugged brings these flaws out immediately.

That's a good point, but just about every guitar you pick up in a guitar store is going to have a bad/no set-up.

I tend to disregard the set-up when trying out a guitar, because I know I can fix that, and if there's anything seriously wrong with it, I've got plenty of time to return it. The thing is; I can't remember the last time I tried out a guitar in a store that I liked so much I bought it right there on the spot. When I try out a guitar, it's either a case of impulsive curiosity (something shiny caught my eye), or I'm already interested in a particular guitar and I want to find out what it feels/sounds like... Then I go and buy a used one, or buy new from Sweetwater, because Sweetwater will almost always cut me a deal, and GC doesn't budge a penny, even if the guitar is dinged up and shop-worn.

So basically, all I'm interested in when I pick up a guitar in a store is:

• How do the pickups sound? (of course, I'll probably swap them out, but good stock pickups are a bonus)

• How does the neck feel? (profile/fretboard radius)

• Is it comfortable to play?

• Is it heavy?

• Is it well made?

• Does it look cool? ( )

If there's nothing about it that's deal-breaker for me, and I still like it (hopefully like it more) then I feel confident enough to buy one online.

FWIW all your comments are appreciated, especially those that are based on experience. Things that "make sense" or seem logical aren't always so.
Sometimes it's delicious to open up a can of worms

I'll add that my WNO-630 (hollow body) doesn't sound all that interesting acoustically, even though it's obviously louder than a solid body guitar. But I love how it sounds through an amp.

Mossman wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:46 pm

• Does it look cool? ( )

If there's nothing about it that's deal-breaker for me, and I still like it (hopefully like it more) then I feel confident enough to buy one online.

I'm currently shopping for something that looks good on a living room alcove wall to complement the Surf Green Strat, GoldTop LP, and an acoustic now....I have to share a house with GF so she's Ok with guitars hanging on living room wall...but with some concessions...it has to look cool (and she's partial to red...so Candy Apple Red is a candidate)...the things we do for love...

Tonray's Ghost wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:33 pm

Mossman wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:46 pm

• Does it look cool? ( )

If there's nothing about it that's deal-breaker for me, and I still like it (hopefully like it more) then I feel confident enough to buy one online.

I'm currently shopping for something that looks good on a living room alcove wall to complement the Surf Green Strat, GoldTop LP, and an acoustic now....I have to share a house with GF so she's Ok with guitars hanging on living room wall...but with some concessions...it has to look cool (and she's partial to red...so Candy Apple Red is a candidate)...the things we do for love...

You show much wisdom... Candy Apple Red is the coolest of all solid-color finishes (Leo's favorite, too). Must have a black pickguard, though, or gold anodized aluminum one. A white pickguard drastically diminishes cool factor, and tort will completely drain all cool from the guitar.

Mossman wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:01 pm

Tonray's Ghost wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:33 pm

Mossman wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:46 pm

• Does it look cool? ( )

If there's nothing about it that's deal-breaker for me, and I still like it (hopefully like it more) then I feel confident enough to buy one online.

I'm currently shopping for something that looks good on a living room alcove wall to complement the Surf Green Strat, GoldTop LP, and an acoustic now....I have to share a house with GF so she's Ok with guitars hanging on living room wall...but with some concessions...it has to look cool (and she's partial to red...so Candy Apple Red is a candidate)...the things we do for love...

You show much wisdom... Candy Apple Red is the coolest of all solid-color finishes (Leo's favorite, too). Must have a black pickguard, though, or gold anodized aluminum one. A white pickguard drastically diminishes cool factor, and tort will completely drain all cool from the guitar.

Looking at this:

I want it to ring well, unplugged. But, feel of guitar to hands, and sound plugged in are much more important to me. I do believe body/neck material cellular structure makes a difference.

Tonray's Ghost wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:07 pm
Looking at this:

Good eye... I came very close to buying that one myself, but then I built the Eclipse, which cured all my Jazzmaster GAS. It sure does look purty, though. Sounds good too... after you figure out how to EQ it.

Mossman wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:55 pm This has been a trope for as long as there have been solid-body electric guitars, and I don't buy it. I don't believe in tonewood, either. I've picked up guitars/basses that sounded utterly unremarkable unplugged, but great when amplified, and vice verse. Intuitively it makes sense that the sound of an anamplified guitar would inform you of how it will sound plugged in, but all it tells you is how the guitar sounds unamplified. Since I've always practiced and performed with an amp, I don't care what a guitar sounds like unamplified.

How about papier mache as a tonewood???

Papier Mache Guitar

Or cabinet wood?

Mossman wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:46 pm
So basically, all I'm interested in when I pick up a guitar in a store is:

• How does the neck feel? (profile/fretboard radius)

• Is it comfortable to play?

• Is it heavy?

• Is it well made?

• Does it look cool? ( )

^ this

Skip to 16 min for sound and builders thoughts

thepezident wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:12 am



Skip to 16 min for sound and builders thoughts

I guess neck dive is not gonna be an issue

Tonray's Ghost wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:07 pm
Looking at this:

I have one of those with the trem on it. I picked mine up on Reverb "used", but when it arrived it was new old stock. It still had all the plastics and hang tags on it. Great guitar with one minor flaw. The stock bridge sucks. Mine rattled. I replaced it with a Wilkinson roller bridge. It has one of the nicest necks I've ever played on a Squier. It's basically the same guitar as the J Mascis Jazzmaster with different pickups. I watched several comparison videos between the two before I settled on the Deluxe as I liked how it sounded a little better.

As far as the topic at hand, I think unplugged tone has a small factor in total sound, but I think overall feel and playability is more important.

thepezident wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:12 am

Well... that guitar looks solid!

IMHO it sounds great, but not like a wood guitar. I can't prove that it's not subconscious bias, but that's what I hear. It would work great for metal (or maybe a new genre of music - heavy masonry).

Just to add to the discussion, not as a point of contention. I watched a video recently that was explaining the natural harmonics - overtones, which occur with plucking a string or even playing a note in a woodwind or brass instrument, where a column of air vibrates. The guy showed graphical representation of these overtones for guitar vs. clarinet. They look like spikes in a graph, kind of like in spectral analysis. And they have the same harmonics, but at different levels, which makes for the unique timbre of each instrument and allows us to hear the difference between a guitar and a clarinet. Then he isolated only the tonic - the fundamental tone and played them back without the overtones - and both sounded identical. Without overtones it sounds like a dial tone, not like a guitar or a clarinet or anything else. I know it doesn't disprove anyone's experience, just food for thought.

Here's the video

Exactly. The vibration of a guitar string is complex, NOT a simple sine wave. The bridge, nut, break angles over both, and the wood (or concrete?) they are mounted to IS going to impact the way the string vibrates and for how long.

You can debate how audible the impacts to the harmonics are, and if they matter, but they are there. What I don’t think is debatable is that a guitar that sounds “dead” acoustically will not ring and sustain the same when plugged in as a comparable guitar that rings and sustains longer. If the guitar absorbs and dampens the vibrations, there is simply less for the pickups to pick up.

BTW, that video on harmonics is the music theory behind why with distorted tones (more harmonics from amps and pedals) we often drop the major third and prefer simple power chords. There are too many slightly out of tune harmonics with the full chords, and while many musicians might not understand what is going on, they do hear it, and naturally simplify what they are playing.