Bobbin widing

[Buddha Pickups]

@Buddha Pickups & @mozz :

Mine came out around 7K @7500 turns, 72 degrees F.

I finished it with my own braided lead: start = hot, finish = ground. The one Patrick provided for me had shorts.

AMI Toaster.jpg

Did 43 fill it up?

Not sure yet if I'll try 44 underwound to give it some jangle or maybe try 42.5.

[Buddha Pickups]

@mozz and @Buddha Pickups , do you know if we are winding these to Toaster specs? Pat never answered my PM on what he was looking for.

He requested ~7k so depending on the bobbin size that would be roughly 5500-6000 turns of 44. Not sure yet if I'll stick to 44 or try something thicker to fill up the bobbin more.
I assume maybe we should all try something different so he has some options?

@Buddha Pickups & @mozz Thanks!

I was going to use 43ga to achieve 7K, wound clockwise (top of the bobbin facing the spindle plate, with the winder spinning CCW). No wax potting.

I was going to use 42ga, but thought the inductance / resonant frequency would go way high with 1" magnets in such close proximity. I did not choose 44ga, because it is a PITA (Lol) and at 7K might be too dark.

If you hate 44 I have some 46 you should try! Not sure why I bought it, you pretty much have to wrap it slowly by hand to prevent breaking.

[andrewsrea]

@Buddha Pickups & @mozz :

Mine came out around 7K @7500 turns, 72 degrees F.

I finished it with my own braided lead: start = hot, finish = ground. The one Patrick provided for me had shorts.

AMI Toaster.jpg

Did 43 fill it up?

Not sure yet if I'll try 44 underwound to give it some jangle or maybe try 42.5.

It filled a little more than a Strat pickup and had ohms per foot like a strat pickup.

[pbrommer]

I go away for a weekend, and there's a million messages. AAAAH!

Anyways, @andrewsrea -- sorry about the wire, it was what came off of it. Trash it or reuse it. UGH - hate that. I expect more from myself than to send out garbage for people to use. Please don't think that's what I always do. Second, I have the magnets - don't worry.

@Buddha Pickups -- I hope you guys had fun. I have magnets in hand at my house, so I will put the magnets in when I get them. Don't stress!

When it comes to winding, it looks like you all had fun. I'm not looking for an exact copy of a toaster, just close. I had access to all of the other materials, but no way to wind a pickup. That's where you three come in. I'm not aiming for 100% toaster perfection - just close.
I have more enjoyment in life making things and tweaking things, so this is on my list of millions of things to do.

If they're all a bit different, that's where the interesting part to me comes in to me as a science teacher. I might even record me playing (terribly) and see if there's any difference. Just for science sake.

You three have been super awesome to work with, and I apologize for not getting back to you right away. I'm not always on this site and being one person doing 2 people's jobs coupled with 3 nights with meetings until 5 PM, well, that's a recipe for not responding. That's not the typical person I am, so I'm sorry about that. I hope that doesn't sour your expectations of me as a person on the internet. I thank you three for volunteering to help and winding the bobbins. I'll probably post pictures of the before and after in a build thread. Thank you as well for your patience gentlemen.

Patrick

[mozz]

Was going to wind 3 p90's for a project (cnc winder) and then get to this bobbin. Of course my windows laptop was dead so had to plug it in and charge it while running. Then USB problems. It's WIN Vista machine. No more updates and even the browsers didn't want to work due to expired certificates. So looking at my winder it was version 2.3 software, they now have ver 4.5 so i figured to update that. But to use the new software you have to jtag the controller to update it first. If you are familiar with jtag, you have to connect a header to the board and basically flash the chip, like updating a bios. Well after all was done, it didn't work properly, the motors will start then stop and start humming. So being in email contact with the developer i hopefully have this sorted out, hopefully. I should have left well enough alone. I really need another bench for the winder and a dedicated desktop computer.
EDIT: Guy walked me through a few things i had set wrong, i should have never jumped so many versions without be familiar with them all.
Here is 1 page out of many. Trying again tomorrow.

[pbrommer]

Oof, that's a huge bummer there mozz.

I like our CNCs at work, but sometimes they're more hassle than what they're worth. Good luck!

[Buddha Pickups]

@mozz and @Buddha Pickups , do you know if we are winding these to Toaster specs? Pat never answered my PM on what he was looking for.

He requested ~7k so depending on the bobbin size that would be roughly 5500-6000 turns of 44. Not sure yet if I'll stick to 44 or try something thicker to fill up the bobbin more.
I assume maybe we should all try something different so he has some options?

@Buddha Pickups & @mozz Thanks!

I was going to use 43ga to achieve 7K, wound clockwise (top of the bobbin facing the spindle plate, with the winder spinning CCW). No wax potting.

I was going to use 42ga, but thought the inductance / resonant frequency would go way high with 1" magnets in such close proximity. I did not choose 44ga, because it is a PITA (Lol) and at 7K might be too dark.

Forgot to ask if this was the direction we determined to match the bridge? Bobbin top facing the winder and spinning ccw is my "reverse wound" that I normally do for my necks.
Do we know polarity? I can put in some 1/4" mags

[andrewsrea]

Forgot to ask if this was the direction we determined to match the bridge? Bobbin top facing the winder and spinning ccw is my "reverse wound" that I normally do for my necks.
Do we know polarity? I can put in some 1/4" mags

I typically wind all my pickups the same direction, then reverse the lead and magnet polarity of one pickup to achieve RWRP. Electrically, it is the same as what you do.

I wound with the top of the bobbin facing into the plate with the plate running CCW, which winds the bobbin CW. I attached braided coax (like Gibson used) with the 'hot' to the bobbin 'start' and the bobbin 'finish to ground (the braided part).

I did not get magnets with my pup and Patrick should have received it back today.

[andrewsrea]

Was going to wind 3 p90's for a project (cnc winder) and then get to this bobbin. Of course my windows laptop was dead so had to plug it in and charge it while running. Then USB problems. It's WIN Vista machine. No more updates and even the browsers didn't want to work due to expired certificates. So looking at my winder it was version 2.3 software, they now have ver 4.5 so i figured to update that. But to use the new software you have to jtag the controller to update it first. If you are familiar with jtag, you have to connect a header to the board and basically flash the chip, like updating a bios. Well after all was done, it didn't work properly, the motors will start then stop and start humming. So being in email contact with the developer i hopefully have this sorted out, hopefully. I should have left well enough alone. I really need another bench for the winder and a dedicated desktop computer.
EDIT: Guy walked me through a few things i had set wrong, i should have never jumped so many versions without be familiar with them all.
Here is 1 page out of many. Trying again tomorrow.

image002.jpg

That looks pretty cool!

[Buddha Pickups]

Forgot to ask if this was the direction we determined to match the bridge? Bobbin top facing the winder and spinning ccw is my "reverse wound" that I normally do for my necks.
Do we know polarity? I can put in some 1/4" mags

I typically wind all my pickups the same direction, then reverse the lead and magnet polarity of one pickup to achieve RWRP. Electrically, it is the same as what you do.

I wound with the top of the bobbin facing into the plate with the plate running CCW, which winds the bobbin CW. I attached braided coax (like Gibson used) with the 'hot' to the bobbin 'start' and the bobbin 'finish to ground (the braided part).

I did not get magnets with my pup and Patrick should have received it back today.

Cool, I wound mine the same way but with 44awg 6500 turns. Turned out about 7.5k before waxing.
I used the 2 conductor wire provided and cut off the shorted ends so phase can be reversed if need be.

I have mags I can install, lemme check before shipping if he wants me to install some and magnetize them.

[andrewsrea]

Forgot to ask if this was the direction we determined to match the bridge? Bobbin top facing the winder and spinning ccw is my "reverse wound" that I normally do for my necks.
Do we know polarity? I can put in some 1/4" mags

I typically wind all my pickups the same direction, then reverse the lead and magnet polarity of one pickup to achieve RWRP. Electrically, it is the same as what you do.

I wound with the top of the bobbin facing into the plate with the plate running CCW, which winds the bobbin CW. I attached braided coax (like Gibson used) with the 'hot' to the bobbin 'start' and the bobbin 'finish to ground (the braided part).

I did not get magnets with my pup and Patrick should have received it back today.

Cool, I wound mine the same way but with 44awg 6500 turns. Turned out about 7.5k before waxing.
I used the 2 conductor wire provided and cut off the shorted ends so phase can be reversed if need be.

I have mags I can install, lemme check before shipping if he wants me to install some and magnetize them.

Nice - sounds like we are all in the same ballpark with DCR, but the resonant frequency will be different.

I wound mine tight, with some occasional scatters and did not pot it.

[redman]

BTW: you have the best of the AGF pickup makers ringing in here. Tim & Mozz are excellent at their craft!

How do you plan on magnetizing the rod magnets?

I'm positive that @mozz and @Buddha Pickups do excellent work but dude I have a set of your rewinds and they are bada$$ pups so I agree don't sell your self short brother.

[pbrommer]

Got the bobbin from Andrew area, and it looks great.

I sent you a message Tim @Buddha about the bobbin. I'll take care of the magnets - they hadn't arrived.

So, hopefully all goes well for everyone. We'll see how this goes.

[mozz]

Well, got a old IBM branded desktop(actually 2 of them) with a 2.8ghz P4 win 7 aero for free so that is now my dedicated winder computer. Did 3 p90's and left the 42 awg on the machine. From what i am reading a toaster bobbin is 5mm wide and these are 8mm so that kind of blows any known specs out the window. I did a bit over 7000 turns with 42awg and comes out about 6.05k warm and i got 2.71h for inductance. That might equal 7.8k of 43. Could be a hot pickup. Bobbin is full. Will add wires and zap south up and mail it out monday-tuesday.

[Buddha Pickups]

This should be a neat experiment.
3 bobbins 3 different wire gauges

[mozz]

Yes, I was thinking that too. I don't like 43,44.

EDIT:
Latest in this saga. Wax pot warpage. I was doing the P90's in the wax pot, under 10 minutes and the bubbles stopped. Sometimes i wax pot, others times none. Well, last pickups were for 2 telecasters, feedback from the amps (fender blackface style, not really high gain) in the garage. So i had to pull them and wax pot them. The p90's i thought were just right, due to me adjusting the tensioner, except 1 came out lose which was my fault. So into the wax. So now i put the 3d printed bobbin in the wax pot, bubbles stopped at under 4 minutes, so i take it out and i can see the wire tension warped the bobbin due to the heat. It's not bad, some flare, appears solid so i ain't gonna touch it.

[andrewsrea]

^ not a disaster, but it sucks. I was worried about that when I was building and decided not to pot. Next time clear enamel potting or perhaps epoxy?

[Buddha Pickups]

^ not a disaster, but it sucks. I was worried about that when I was building and decided not to pot. Next time clear enamel potting or perhaps epoxy?

I didn't pot mine either, wasn't sure how well the bobbin would hold up.

[Buddha Pickups]

Yes, I was thinking that too. I don't like 43,44.

EDIT:
Latest in this saga. Wax pot warpage. I was doing the P90's in the wax pot, under 10 minutes and the bubbles stopped. Sometimes i wax pot, others times none. Well, last pickups were for 2 telecasters, feedback from the amps (fender blackface style, not really high gain) in the garage. So i had to pull them and wax pot them. The p90's i thought were just right, due to me adjusting the tensioner, except 1 came out lose which was my fault. So into the wax. So now i put the 3d printed bobbin in the wax pot, bubbles stopped at under 4 minutes, so i take it out and i can see the wire tension warped the bobbin due to the heat. It's not bad, some flare, appears solid so i ain't gonna touch it.

I have about 30lbs of 42.5 if he wants to try one in every gauge!
I have some 45 too but anything above 44 is a pain in the ass

[mozz]

^ You sold me a few odd spools of 42.5 a few years back. Still gets used every now and then. I really don't want to see the price of PE once my 5lb spool is gone.
As for the wax, i use a hide glue pot turned down a little. I'm not much over 140f with some paraffin and local beeswax.

Here's a chart i found online which helps estimate the resistance from 1 gauge to another. How accurate I don't know. Looks like they are just taking the manufactures readings.
Reference for DC resistance equivalence:

To convert 42 AWG to 43 AWG equivalent, you multiply the resistance by 1.29 ( 2143 / 1659 )
To convert 42 AWG to 44 AWG equivalent, you multiply the resistance by 1.56 ( 2593 / 1659 )

To convert 43 AWG to 42 AWG equivalent, you multiply the resistance by 0.77 ( 1659 / 2143 )
To convert 43 AWG to 44 AWG equivalent, you multiply the resistance by 1.21 ( 2593 / 2143 )

To convert 44 AWG to 42 AWG equivalent, you multiply the resistance by 0.64 ( 1659 / 2593 )
To convert 44 AWG to 43 AWG equivalent, you multiply the resistance by 0.83 ( 2143 / 2593 )

[Buddha Pickups]

^ You sold me a few odd spools of 42.5 a few years back. Still gets used every now and then. I really don't want to see the price of PE once my 5lb spool is gone.
As for the wax, i use a hide glue pot turned down a little. I'm not much over 140f with some paraffin and local beeswax.

Here's a chart i found online which helps estimate the resistance from 1 gauge to another. How accurate I don't know. Looks like they are just taking the manufactures readings.
Reference for DC resistance equivalence:

To convert 42 AWG to 43 AWG equivalent, you multiply the resistance by 1.29 ( 2143 / 1659 )
To convert 42 AWG to 44 AWG equivalent, you multiply the resistance by 1.56 ( 2593 / 1659 )

To convert 43 AWG to 42 AWG equivalent, you multiply the resistance by 0.77 ( 1659 / 2143 )
To convert 43 AWG to 44 AWG equivalent, you multiply the resistance by 1.21 ( 2593 / 2143 )

To convert 44 AWG to 42 AWG equivalent, you multiply the resistance by 0.64 ( 1659 / 2593 )
To convert 44 AWG to 43 AWG equivalent, you multiply the resistance by 0.83 ( 2143 / 2593 )

I remember that now, I think u had to cut a little off to find a start/finish wire on that spool. Yep, I have 5 or 6 full 5lb spools left. I use it all the time as well. I like it for strats, mustangs, and jags alot.

I use a paraffin bath meant for therapeutic hand/foot treatment. Never gets too hot and I can leave it on year round. My last one lasted about 5 years of being on all the time.

For resistance guessing, I normally just take my best guess with the 43 being close to 1/1 ratio and going from there.

[littlebadboy]

...Just for science sake.

You three have been super awesome to work with, and I apologize for not getting back to you right away. I'm not always on this site and being one person doing 2 people's jobs coupled with 3 nights with meetings until 5 PM, well, that's a recipe for not responding. That's not the typical person I am, so I'm sorry about that. I hope that doesn't sour your expectations of me as a person on the internet. I thank you three for volunteering to help and winding the bobbins. I'll probably post pictures of the before and after in a build thread. Thank you as well for your patience gentlemen.

Patrick

Hello, fellow science teacher doing 2 jobs with meeting times filling up planning time! This looks a cool experiment! Please share your results!

[andrewsrea]

^ You sold me a few odd spools of 42.5 a few years back. Still gets used every now and then. I really don't want to see the price of PE once my 5lb spool is gone.
As for the wax, i use a hide glue pot turned down a little. I'm not much over 140f with some paraffin and local beeswax.

Here's a chart i found online which helps estimate the resistance from 1 gauge to another. How accurate I don't know. Looks like they are just taking the manufactures readings.
Reference for DC resistance equivalence:

To convert 42 AWG to 43 AWG equivalent, you multiply the resistance by 1.29 ( 2143 / 1659 )
To convert 42 AWG to 44 AWG equivalent, you multiply the resistance by 1.56 ( 2593 / 1659 )

To convert 43 AWG to 42 AWG equivalent, you multiply the resistance by 0.77 ( 1659 / 2143 )
To convert 43 AWG to 44 AWG equivalent, you multiply the resistance by 1.21 ( 2593 / 2143 )

To convert 44 AWG to 42 AWG equivalent, you multiply the resistance by 0.64 ( 1659 / 2593 )
To convert 44 AWG to 43 AWG equivalent, you multiply the resistance by 0.83 ( 2143 / 2593 )

I keep models in Excel for each of the major bobbin type and as I wind off of a particular spool, I take sample DCR per wind count measurements. Along with the above starting points, I get 'working-close' in my models.

[mickey]

Excel? Nobody still uses Excel do they?
I dropped that turkey in the 1980's.

[andrewsrea]

Excel? Nobody still uses Excel do they?
I dropped that turkey in the 1980's.

Yes - with my dot-matrix printer!