A Guitar And Gear Support Forum

Anyone interested in or try one out yet? I just don't know how much more powerful a modeler can get.
Fractal seems to be the one to beat right now.

Ayuh, always interested in gear...but I don't know which one would be the king of the hill just now in these - this or the Neural Quad Cortex.

deeaa wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 5:35 am Ayuh, always interested in gear...but I don't know which one would be the king of the hill just now in these - this or the Neural Quad Cortex.

Not even close. The QC is a mess right now with little progress toward meeting the promised launch content in close to a year. Amp models are limited, effects limited and poor quality, software issues, major hardware issues, no PC editor or local backups, cloud system is a nearly unusable mess. I would say it’s 50/50 at best that Neural will be able to fix everything before they give up or go under.

The FM9 is not really available yet, plan on a long time on the wait list. That said, the software is mature from the Axe III and FM3 and it’s the best sounding, most versatile, and most configurable modeling available. If there are hardware issues Fractal has the track record to give confidence that they can and will fix them.

Okay, I haven't been following QC progress much of late. Fractal indeed has been at it quite a while - our guitarist has an FX II Ultra and it's quite a decent modeler already. One would expect the new ones to be much better even.

Where have you read about problems with QC though, seems I can only find really glowing reviews only, and their demos sound a lot better than Fractal's too?

If I hadn't upgraded to the Axe FX III with an FC12 this year, it would be tempting. It's still half the power of Axe FX 3, but it's half the price of a III + FC 12 and it's in one portable floor unit. Many people found the FM3 had plenty of power and this has twice that power, so I'm sure the extra bit to the III isn't necessary.

I could see myself getting the FM9 eventually as a backup / portable unit. I currently use my AX8 for rehearsals/jams since it's more portable than my III system. It looks like most Axe FX III patches will be able to be run on FM9.

deeaa wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:57 am Where have you read about problems with QC though, seems I can only find really glowing reviews only, and their demos sound a lot better than Fractal's too?

Neural had tight control over reviews posted by the influencers they shared units with. There are several forums where owners gather, including TGP. They designed it without grounding so hum issues, the usb interface is spotty and often glitches, a number of units have had crashing issues or just bricked.

Launch issues happen, even to the big guys, but they have not handled any of it well. Their proposed solution to the ungrounded power supply is another ungrounded power supply. Even then, customers have been told replacement power supplies would be available “next week” since Spring. No real communication on the other hardware problems other than they are replacing units.

Just the list of amps, effects and other features promised for launch that are still missing should be enough to give one pause. Again, delays happen, and if they delivered the launch features 4-6 weeks late in an update, that would be minor. Instead, they delayed the launch by months, and now more than 6 months after delayed launch, everything promised is still coming “soon” which is a huge red flag that they have major development and or financial issues. I would actually guess both.

The idea of the thing and it’s potential to be great keeps me interested. The reality has me afraid to give them a penny until everything promised has been delivered and they have established a better track record of support. I probably won’t touch a QC at least until there is a second gen of the hardware with onboard ground.

Here is a viewpoint on Fractal for professional use. Start at exactly 7 minutes in...

Interesting...well, I guess we'll see how it pans out later. I'm mostly interested in the possibility to copy and then tweak a sound of your own amp. I don't use effect to speak of, but it'd be great to get my tone with an easy, consistent way. I only know one guy with a QC remotely, and he swears by it, ditched his Kemper for it and seems very happy. But, will see later.

I'm yet to hear a modeler I'd really love IRL at least, though. Yes, they can sound great on recording, but never heard or played a truly great sounding one live. But I'm keep to find one some day.

The Axe2 Ultra is pretty cool, but also with that, I've had to tweak the sounds quite a bit by 'degrading' them some mostly....modelers always tend to sound far too 'perfect' or polished.

Next time we record guitars, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna run that axeFX thru a 1x12" and mike that and mix with the DI sound. It works great usually to make the sounds more 'tangible' and real.

I do my own guitars in the studio with a small solid state Hotone head ran into a 1x12' as well as a DI line from it that I EQ very heavily. The thing is, if you listen to a single mono track I've played, it's horrible, very low gain, ratty and midrangey, low end lacking crap...but once you run it in stereo and layer and compress and add drums etc it sounds just great - none of that annoying preamp type buzz distortion, just powerful, clear and aggressive.

When we mix a modeler sound direct with that, I'm comparison it always sounds too in your face, too buzzy, too artificial and weird. But it can be mixed by cutting into it with a parametric EQ and whatnot.

That said, I've been using some sort of modelers for almost 20 years now and always am keen to use them.

Right now I'm using a new Boss GT thingy for headphone playing as well...I've tried it for recording, but can't use it for that, save for demos. Sounds very artificial. But I'm sure it could give great sounds as well by bypassing the cab element and running it thru a real speaker and a cab emulator as well, even the old GT-8 yielded great sounds like that.

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The reason you don’t like modelers live is likely due to the sad state of cab simulation and not the amp modeling itself. The IR’s and other cab sims almost all model a close mic’ed cab sound like you would get when recording and not the sound of an actual cab. This makes a huge difference with 4x12’s but it’s still pretty significant with a 1x12 or 2x12.

Yep, I've tried a lot of different IRs and some have also far miked versions.

It's true that IRs are the most important ones, even with old "modelers" you can get terrific results with a good IR file.

But the biggest reason I don't like modelers live is that you have to have a dozen different sounds and change between them. They don't react like an amp at all. I only have a 1-channel amp and still I can get from clean to lead drive with just a finger movement and playing a little differently. And I don't need any FXs it sounds full and lively even without reverb...with modelers you end up adding verbs and whatnot because it sounds somehow dead otherwise and then there's a dangerous it becomes all too polished and tame.

But, I keep trying all the time.

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deeaa wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:46 pm I'm yet to hear a modeler I'd really love IRL at least, though. Yes, they can sound great on recording, but never heard or played a truly great sounding one live. But I'm keep to find one some day.

Have you been looking (listening?) at small, local shows, or large national shows with a great PA system? Because I definitely see people missing the amp in the room sound/feel in a small room at local shows. As @Chocol8 mentioned, the modelers don't really do that well. The modelers really do recording (as you mentioned) and FOH PA really well. Also makes for a dream when you're band uses in ear monitors.

All the metal shows that I thought had great guitar tone didn't have any cabs on stage. I know some of them for a fact use Kempers or Fractal, but others could be using real amps with isolation boxes off stage. I've also heard plenty of subpar guitar tones (and mixes, in general) from national bands, both with real amps and others with modelers. I'm really in the camp that neither is better or worse, but just a different route.

But to that point, you are at the mercy of the PA system. For the first 5 years in the band I'm in, we've always had top notch sound systems through a couple production companies as well as at festivals with production provided. However, this year, along with everything else, there's been a shortage of available production companies. We've had to run with some less-than-ideal guys this summer. Just when the break music was playing, it sounded both dull, muddy, AND shrill (how is that possible?). I can only imagine that my guitar didn't sound nearly as good as it does on my studio monitors at home. It did make me wish I had some on-stage volume. However, the people who hired us for those private parties were really pleased and even tipped us on top of the high rate they paid, so there's that...

I do miss having on-stage volume when it comes to things like pinch harmonics. When you're on proper stages that you share with national acts, there's really not much noise on the stage if you don't have the wedges going. Having a little bit of sonic feedback going to the guitar can be a good thing and I think that can sometimes be lost when you go to IEM systems without a cab on stage.

Thanks for the education. I use mine specifically because I play indoors only, and late at night. I've never tried using one in a live situation.

I dunno, last night we spent an hour tweaking the lead guitarist's rig, AxeFXII Ultra through two FRFR speakers courtesy of Jensen (great but dark) and Celesion FX100 (too bright) and combining those and a few eq tweaks we got some effing superb sounds indeed. As long as we steered clear of OD models which are noisy and just used some good basic amp models we got some totally killer sounds. As much as I love my 2203 Marshall I was almost envious of it. I could well see myself getting one of those Fractal units some day. It's just that the price tag is pretty prohibitive.

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