Wowee! What a Difference a Speaker Swap Made in This Amp!

[Mossman]

"Yeah, this is such a fantastic amp, it's a shame that Fender decided to utterly cripple it with that shitty speaker. I can't help but think if Fender put something half-way decent in this amp, they would have sold a lot more of them. They'd probably still be making them today... Or maybe we'd be up the X3 or X4 by now. "

Well, seeing this first hand it's more like this. Engineering wants good speakers and other good parts. Marketing says no, cost too much. ( OH, OUR PROFIT MARGINS!)
Resistors, caps, wire, screws, cost a fraction of a cent each. Speakers, transformers, cost $$$$$$$ major dollars (a few dollars) so they will not spend the money on those building the items.

Undoubtedly... And it's easy to say: "well, I'd pay $50 or $100 more if it sounded this good... why didn't they just bump up the price a little?", but they set the price point and tier that every one of their products will occupy before they're even designed, and they have to stick to that. Otherwise, their pricing structure would be all over the place. But still... When you find out that one simple change can turn a good product into a frickin' GREAT product, you have to wonder, why didn't they do it? If they had planned from the beginning for this to be a $500 product instead of a $400 product, and presented this amp to the market in all its glory, I think it would have done exceedingly well. Especially when there's very little that distinguishes the X2 from its XD predecessor other than a USB port and the ability to use the Fuse software. This was a perfect opportunity for them to make the X2 a true upgrade from the previous model, but they decided to change the name, and keep it mostly the same. I know they were trying to make an affordable tube amp, but I think a $500 tube amp can still wear the "affordable" moniker. I've also considered that they probably didn't want to cannibalize their Mustang market. I used to own a Mustang II and loved it, but after I got the Super Champ, I thought it ate the Mustang's lunch, even with the stock speaker. I know if I had heard this amp with a good speaker right from the start, I'd never look at another Mustang.

I'm actually starting to seriously consider trying to fix my Mustang, and put a better speaker in it to see how it stands up to the SC.

I'm sure the Webers and the ragin, cannabis rex. etc, are factory broken in or the surround loosened up. I doubt very much the new Jensens are broken in. Play loud bass heavy music thru it for a day or week and i can bet it sounds a lot more mellow and smooth.

Weber will break in your speaker for you, but you have to request it (I did). I have no idea if Eminence speakers are broken in... I assumed they weren't, since I've never heard anybody say that they were... but when I was doing my research and the Jensens were described as being bright, or stiff, it was usually in the context of general characteristics, when compared to other, similar speakers. Not the out-of-box experience.

[Mossman]

Neo magnets on speakers doesn’t mean metal, it means light weight for aging guitarists!

Right, but neo magnets in pickups always meant metal to me. I just mentioned that as a way of saying: "this is all I know about Neodymium magnets".

[Mossman]

To the OP: I do have a stock SuperChamp X2 I like a lot, and now I have to consider a speaker swap for it - thanks!

That's why I posted this thread... I knew there were a few cats on here who own an XD or X2, and I wanted them to know what a sleeping giant they have!

[Mossman]

Neo magnets on speakers doesn’t mean metal, it means light weight for aging guitarists!

Unfortunately, I built the cabinet out of solid oak (because I had some laying around)
so you'd never notice the weight of the speaker irrespective of the speaker used.
Learned a lesson 'cause I'll never build an amp/speaker cab out of solid oak again!

I don't know why anybody makes anything out of oak... besides doors and beams... floors... Brian May's Red Special... But that's it!

On a positive note, at least you didn't use slabs of lead, tungsten, or depleted uranium!

Like in Soviet Russia?

[redman]

BillM told me he used the "Ragin Cajun" in his because he happened to have one laying around for another project when doing the Super Champ review.
He regretted that because he felt there were other (much better) speakers for the SCXD.
But everyone acted like lemmings and got in line to install Ragin Cajun's because billm did.
I never could get him to tell me what his first choice would have been.

I almost forgot to mention: when I was doing my research, I did get the impression that the Ragin' Cajun had kind of a "fan boy" type following (same with the C Rex to a lesser degree), because of that, every recommendation for that speaker held a little less sway for me. I'm never one to go with the popular choice just because it's popular, and I think that might have had a bit of influence in my decision to go with the Weber.

Sign me up as a plus one in the FAN BOY CLUB cuz my little SCXD W/RC speaker is a great little amp for what I use it for. I have a little
Line 6 Spyder V 60 I use most often these days because of the headphone output jack and living in this cracker box of an apartment mustn't be disturbing the animals.

[mickey]

Like in Soviet Russia?

In Soviet Russia the amp builds you!

[Rollin Hand]

Neo magnets on speakers doesn’t mean metal, it means light weight for aging guitarists!

Unfortunately, I built the cabinet out of solid oak (because I had some laying around)
so you'd never notice the weight of the speaker irrespective of the speaker used.
Learned a lesson 'cause I'll never build an amp/speaker cab out of solid oak again!

I don't know why anybody makes anything out of oak... besides doors and beams... floors... Brian May's Red Special... But that's it!

On a positive note, at least you didn't use slabs of lead, tungsten, or depleted uranium!

Like in Soviet Russia?

In Soviet Russia, uranium depletes you!

As for the oak cabinet it's better than MDF. My feeling on MDF is anything that heavy should be stronger.

[Mossman]

Sign me up as a plus one in the FAN BOY CLUB cuz my little SCXD W/RC speaker is a great little amp for what I use it for.

The RC deserves a fanboy following... It's a good speaker. It's just that when everybody and their cousin's dog says that something is the best thing ever, I always wonder how much of that is the result of hype and Kool Aid. I tend to have an aversion to following the crowd... At least not until I've done what most normal people would probably consider an insane amount of research. I whittled my options down to the Weber and the Cajun, and I could have easily ended up buying the RC. I just liked what I read and heard of the Weber a little better. I also like supporting small companies... and I think the Weber cost less too, but I can't really remember. The price wasn't really a factor in my decision.

I have a little Line 6 Spyder V 60 I use most often these days because of the headphone output jack and living in this cracker box of an apartment mustn't be disturbing the animals.

Yeah, that's why I bought a modeler/FX unit (should be here any week now). My only complaint about this amp is that it doesn't have a headphone jack. I know... Tube amps don't have headphone jacks, but this isn't entirely a tube amp... I don't think anybody would care if there were a headphone jack on the back on this thing, and I doubt it would have affected their bottom line that much.

[Mossman]

In Soviet Russia, uranium depletes you!

As for the oak cabinet it's better than MDF. My feeling on MDF is anything that heavy should be stronger.

Yeah, but Oak kills your tools... and your hands... and your arms... and your back! Oak should be hewn by giants to build fortresses, and not used for such petty things.

I've never once thought of building anything out of MDF... Except, maybe templates.

[redman]

@Mossman I must admit that the biggest factors that enticed me to go with the RC speaker was that a guy I know has an electronics repair shop and some guy had ordered and paid for it about a year earlier but had never picked it up so he sold it to me for $25.

[Mossman]

@Mossman I must admit that the biggest factors that enticed me to go with the RC speaker was that a guy I know has an electronics repair shop and some guy had ordered and paid for it about a year earlier but had never picked it up so he sold it to me for $25.

Yeah, that would make me an instant fan too!

[archetype]

If you have not already, check/set the bias A.S.A.P.!!!
Those are notorious for coming from Fender biased waaay tooo cold!
Correct bias makes a huge difference regardless of what tubes/speaker you have in it.

@mickey That's standard with me when power tubes are changed this one was right on 40 mv I guess my buddy set it sometime before he gave it to me but good catch I almost posted I set the bias but didn't '

The bias on mine was set at 38 mV when I tested it... I don't know if that's considerably cold, but Fender recommends 40 mV so that's what I set it to.

FYI it's 40 mV at the test point. That's the sum of both tubes, so each tube is getting 20 mV. 40 mV is the "factory" setting. My SCX2 has had various NOS glass in it since new and it's got Tung-Sol 6V6-GTAs running at 45 mV. I run JJ 6V6S tubes at 50 mV.

[archetype]

Sign me up as a plus one in the FAN BOY CLUB cuz my little SCXD W/RC speaker is a great little amp for what I use it for.

The RC deserves a fanboy following... It's a good speaker. It's just that when everybody and their cousin's dog says that something is the best thing ever, I always wonder how much of that is the result of hype and Kool Aid. I tend to have an aversion to following the crowd... At least not until I've done what most normal people would probably consider an insane amount of research. I whittled my options down to the Weber and the Cajun, and I could have easily ended up buying the RC. I just liked what I read and heard of the Weber a little better. I also like supporting small companies... and I think the Weber cost less too, but I can't really remember. The price wasn't really a factor in my decision.

I have a little Line 6 Spyder V 60 I use most often these days because of the headphone output jack and living in this cracker box of an apartment mustn't be disturbing the animals.

Yeah, that's why I bought a modeler/FX unit (should be here any week now). My only complaint about this amp is that it doesn't have a headphone jack. I know... Tube amps don't have headphone jacks, but this isn't entirely a tube amp... I don't think anybody would care if there were a headphone jack on the back on this thing, and I doubt it would have affected their bottom line that much.

The RC is a good, efficient speaker that will make the SCX2 louder, for sure. It's also not as snappy on the top end as Fender clean really deserves. As a rock speaker, it's a good one, but it loses some of that Fender sparkle.

It would need to be a different circuit design to put a headphone out in the thing. The SS preamp doesn't have enough output for this. Even if it did, there would need to be an 8 Ohm load on the output or a way to switch off the high voltage to the tube stages.

[archetype]

My 2012 Super Champ X2 FSR in rough blonde. I bought it as a new, demo from Sweetwater. I added the 'cake' knobs to complete the look. Glass is NOS Philips USA 12AT7WA and Tung-Sol 6V6-GTA biased to the hot side. The speaker is a well broken-in Weber Signature 10AS. That Weber is inefficient, so I can crank the amp and get it cooking. When loud, the speaker compresses nicely and at full-blast has an slightly-tweedy cone breakup. The USB interface died early this year, so in effect it's an SCXD.

[Mossman]

FYI it's 40 mV at the test point. That's the sum of both tubes, so each tube is getting 20 mV. 40 mV is the "factory" setting. My SCX2 has had various NOS glass in it since new and it's got Tung-Sol 6V6-GTAs running at 45 mV. I run JJ 6V6S tubes at 50 mV.

Since I set the bias to 40mV, I've been thinking about bumping it up a bit... I put JJs in mine too. I'll try 50 mV and see how I like it.

The RC is a good, efficient speaker that will make the SCX2 louder, for sure. It's also not as snappy on the top end as Fender clean really deserves. As a rock speaker, it's a good one, but it loses some of that Fender sparkle.

It would need to be a different circuit design to put a headphone out in the thing. The SS preamp doesn't have enough output for this. Even if it did, there would need to be an 8 Ohm load on the output or a way to switch off the high voltage to the tube stages.

Yeah, I know almost nothing about amp design. I assumed that the pre-amp would be able to power headphones, but I had no idea how that would be sequestered from the power amp section.

Jack Fossett made a few videos showcasing the SCX2 with various speakers, which helped me decide on the Weber (as much as you can judge audio from YouTube videos, anyway)... That, and a lot of forum opinions. I really like the Weber, but honestly, I think I would be happy with any of those speakers. I was also considering a Jensen C10R, as well, but I was put off by the ceramic magnet. I found the stock ceramic speaker to be a little dark and flubby in the lows, and I wanted to brighten the amp up. Not that I think the C10R sounds "dark", or that it wouldn't be a big improvement over the stock speaker, but you know how it is when you fixated on something.

[Mossman]

My 2012 Super Champ X2 FSR in rough blonde. I bought it as a new, demo from Sweetwater. I added the 'cake' knobs to complete the look. Glass is NOS Philips USA 12AT7WA and Tung-Sol 6V6-GTA biased to the hot side.

That looks nice! I wish I had one of those FSR models. I was particularly partial to the wine red and lacquered tweed versions. Didn't the FSRs come stock with an RC?

The speaker is a well broken-in Weber Signature 10AS. That Weber is inefficient, so I can crank the amp and get it cooking. When loud, the speaker compresses nicely and at full-blast has an slightly-tweedy cone breakup. The USB interface died early this year, so in effect it's an SCXD.

One thing that I found with the Weber 10F150 is that it significantly increased the headroom of the amp. I have to push it a lot harder just to get it to break up. I'm hoping that warming up the bias will drop that ceiling a little.