Wowee! What a Difference a Speaker Swap Made in This Amp!

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Mossman
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I've been using a Fender Super Champ X2 for the last couple of years, and I've been really happy with it, but the stock speaker was a little flubby in the low end for my liking. I finally got around to replacing it with a Weber 10F150, and WOW! It's like a night and day difference! Jack Fosset did a review of this amp where he said the Super Champ X2 is a $400 amp that can sound like a $900 amp with a speaker replacement, and now I believe it!

First of all, I had no idea how "budget" the stock speaker was until I removed it. It has a thin, ceramic magnet, and weighs almost nothing... It's like a stereo speaker. The Weber has a big, honkin' alnico magnet, and is much more heavy-duty in construction. This speaker has made the amp bigger, louder, and more responsive to playing dynamics, and the projection is fantastic! It's like going from a 2-D photo to a 3-D movie. This speaker really brings out the quality of the amp modeling, too. I thought the modeling on this amp sounded pretty damn good before, but now it really feels like I have a tweed Deluxe, or a Princeton Reverb in the room, with all the subtle nuances and characteristics of the genuine article(s). And OMG, the cleans are incredible! The highs are so smooth... With the old speaker it could get pretty piercing and harsh if you got carried away with the treble. With this speaker, I can dime the treble with no ice-pick or painful harmonic artifacts.

This speaker has made me fall in love with this amp all over again... When I'm at work, I keep thinking about it, and can't wait to get home to play! It has also made all of my guitars sound noticeably better, with richer harmonic content (yes, I've played every guitar I own through this amp since I replaced the speaker). I can't remember the last time I was this excited about a piece of gear! Especially a piece of gear that I already own! I expected the Weber to sound tighter and have generally better tone, but I didn't expect the difference to be this dramatic! I wish I had done this much sooner.

I also changed the tubes and biased the amp (there's an hilarious story about what led to that), switching from the stock Groove Tubes to JJs (for no other reason than I found a good deal on a set of JJs). I don't know how much that affected the tone, or general sound of the amp, because I replaced the speaker at the same time. Maybe some of you JJ fans can educate me on the differences?

There is one downside, though... I used to run this amp with the volume at around 4 or 5. That was loud enough for the amp to "bloom", but wasn't too loud for apartment playing. Now that this amp has more output, that point where the tone opens up is just over the cusp of apartment-friendly volume. I can't turn the volume up much past 3 before it gets too loud (with the gain at about 2 or 3), but it doesn't get to sounding really good until you get to 4 or higher, and that's just way too loud now. Usually I start with the volume on 3, but I'm always wanting to cheat the volume up by microscopic increments, trying to find that hair-line threshold between optimal tone and reasonable volume. But then I find I have to hold back too much in my playing, and I turn it back down to 3... Which doesn't sound bad, but you know it can sound better. :|

Overall, I don't regret the swap one bit, though. If you have a Super Champ (XD or X2) and you've gotten kinda complacent or bored with it, try upgrading the speaker. It's like getting a whole new amp... A whole new awesome amp!
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honyock
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My SCX2 is a head so I have a little advantage of options, was going to buy one of the new Fender cabs to match, but found a early 90s Fender cab for a Roc Pro that matched the style pretty much perfectly except for the logo being slightly different and the stock Special Design 12 is so well broken in, it sounds great. The cab cost me half what the new ones go for to boot.

Had planned on a speaker upgrade, but played it through a V30 equipped Monoprice plywood cab and it did nothing better except it is lighter than the MDF Fender cab.

Still may try my WGS C12s since it made my Blues Jr sound so sweet. (Also worked well with my Monoprice 15w). The Special Design 12" sucked in the Blues Jr IMO, so you never know...



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The Fender SCXD/SCX2 is famous for being a $900 amp with a $2 speaker that sells for about $400.
I have a couple of them one I put the Jensen C10Q in which made a huge improvement.
The other I bought from someone here. He had bought it from Sweetwater, MF or one of the other big dealers
but UPS destroyed it. The amp chassis was the only thing salvageable which is what I got from him.
Had to build my own cabinet, replace the smashed tubes, speaker, etc. I made the cabinet large enough for
a 12 inch speaker and went with a Jensen Neo12 speaker & "Katie Bar The DOOR!" I've had some pleasant
experiences with Neodymium magnet speakers in recent years & this is one of the best! :D
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My little 78' Champ sounds very good with a 8" weber alnico upgrade in it. Its quite loud when dimed, but at 4-6, it is sounding full yet probably isnt heard in any neighboring houses. I bet its audible out by the street, but not obnoxiously.
"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, stratagems, and spoils. The motions of his spirit are dull as night, and his affections dark as Erebus. Let no such man be trusted."
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When I sold my Lonestar my buddy gave me a Super Champ XD it didn't sound very good at all but worked ok for playing in my apt or jamming with friends. I replaced the tubes with Tung-Sol tubes and replaced the speaker with an Eminence Ragin Cajun and it was completely a different amp.
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redman wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:10 am When I sold my Lonestar my buddy gave me a Super Champ XD it didn't sound very good at all but worked ok for playing in my apt or jamming with friends. I replaced the tubes with Tung-Sol tubes and replaced the speaker with an Eminence Ragin Cajun and it was completely a different amp.
If you have not already, check/set the bias A.S.A.P.!!!
Those are notorious for coming from Fender biased waaay tooo cold!
Correct bias makes a huge difference regardless of what tubes/speaker you have in it.



The procedure is exactly the same for the SCXD or the SCX2.
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@mickey That's standard with me when power tubes are changed this one was right on 40 mv I guess my buddy set it sometime before he gave it to me but good catch I almost posted I set the bias but didn't '
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honyock wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:26 am My SCX2 is a head so I have a little advantage of options, was going to buy one of the new Fender cabs to match, but found a early 90s Fender cab for a Roc Pro that matched the style pretty much perfectly except for the logo being slightly different and the stock Special Design 12 is so well broken in, it sounds great. The cab cost me half what the new ones go for to boot.

Had planned on a speaker upgrade, but played it through a V30 equipped Monoprice plywood cab and it did nothing better except it is lighter than the MDF Fender cab.

Still may try my WGS C12s since it made my Blues Jr sound so sweet. (Also worked well with my Monoprice 15w). The Special Design 12" sucked in the Blues Jr IMO, so you never know...
I have a Mustang II with a janky input jack, and I thought about using it as speaker cab for the X2, but then I thought; the amp is too loud with a 10" speaker, so going up to a 12" would just give me more of what I don't need. Now I want to try to fix/replace the jack on the Mustang (it's surface mounted to the PCB :? ), and put a better speaker in that amp.
mickey wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:55 am The Fender SCXD/SCX2 is famous for being a $900 amp with a $2 speaker that sells for about $400.
I have a couple of them one I put the Jensen C10Q in which made a huge improvement.
Yeah, this is such a fantastic amp, it's a shame that Fender decided to utterly cripple it with that shitty speaker. I can't help but think if Fender put something half-way decent in this amp, they would have sold a lot more of them. They'd probably still be making them today... Or maybe we'd be up the X3 or X4 by now.

I seriously considered the Jensen C10Q based on your recommendation a while back (and the fact that it was one of the speakers originally used by Fender), but a lot of people said that the speaker sounds very bright and stiff, which confused me, since it has a ceramic magnet I thought it would sound warmer, but I had it in my head that I wanted to stay away from ceramic magnets anyway, because I was afraid it would be flubby in the low end like the stock speaker. I had no idea that the stock speaker was was so far behind a Jensen or a Weber, so I was a bit mixed up about the whole thing and I got into a bit of "analysis paralysis".

In the course of my research, the three speakers that were recommended most often for this amp (apart from the Jensen) were the Eminence Ragin' Cajun, Cannabis Rex, and the Weber 10F150 or 10F150T. After reading countless opinions on forums on the subject, I came across these videos by Jack Fosset, which helped me make my decision:







mickey wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:55 amI've had some pleasant
experiences with Neodymium magnet speakers in recent years & this is one of the best! :D
Heheh... Every time I see the word "Neodymium", I think either: "Metal" or "Not for me". I had a hard enough time deciding between ceramic and Alnico!
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Let me explain the Neodymium speakers like this: If you are looking for a replacement speaker for an ACOUSTIC amp, get a neodymium speaker.
This is because it will make the thing sound more acoustic.

Ok, what am I getting at here? Neodymium magnets are the strongest magnets per unit volume (per ounce of magnet weight) known to man.
Thus it gives the amp much better control of the speaker cone compared to a ceramic or AlNiCo speaker with the same size magnet.
I've wondered how they would work in pickups? Wonder if I could talk T.V.Jones into trying them?

I used the C10Q because that was Leo's favorite 10" speaker for his amps back in the "Golden Era" of Fender.

BillM told me he used the "Ragin Cajun" in his because he happened to have one laying around for another project when doing the Super Champ review.
He regretted that because he felt there were other (much better) speakers for the SCXD.
But everyone acted like lemmings and got in line to install Ragin Cajun's because billm did.
I never could get him to tell me what his first choice would have been. :)
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Partscaster wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:13 am My little 78' Champ sounds very good with a 8" weber alnico upgrade in it. Its quite loud when dimed, but at 4-6, it is sounding full yet probably isnt heard in any neighboring houses. I bet its audible out by the street, but not obnoxiously.
Yeah, if I pushed this amp much past 4 it would be too loud in the room for me, nevermind my neighbors or roommate. :lol: Yesterday I went out in the living room with my wireless transmitter, and the amp set on 3 to get a feel for how much of the sound is bleeding through the walls. It wasn't bad. You could definitely hear a low, muffled sound that would probably be rendered mostly inaudible if the TV were on, but I wouldn't want to push it much louder than that. I also don't enjoy playing on the threshold of "too loud". I have to restrain myself too much, and it affects my playing dynamics. The good news is; I did a lot of tweaking last night, and I figured out how to get that pleasing tone at 3 instead of 4... depending on the output of the guitar, that is. I also realized that now that I can hear more of the unique characteristics of each of my guitars, I'm going to be spending a lot more time working the EQ and other settings when I change from one guitar to another (which I do quite often). All of my guitars sound different from each other (what's the point in having a bunch of guitars that sound the same?), but now they sound even more different.
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redman wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:10 am When I sold my Lonestar my buddy gave me a Super Champ XD it didn't sound very good at all but worked ok for playing in my apt or jamming with friends. I replaced the tubes with Tung-Sol tubes and replaced the speaker with an Eminence Ragin Cajun and it was completely a different amp.
Exactly... This amp should have been more popular.
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mickey wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:35 pm If you have not already, check/set the bias A.S.A.P.!!!
Those are notorious for coming from Fender biased waaay tooo cold!
Correct bias makes a huge difference regardless of what tubes/speaker you have in it.
redman wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:56 pm @mickey That's standard with me when power tubes are changed this one was right on 40 mv I guess my buddy set it sometime before he gave it to me but good catch I almost posted I set the bias but didn't '
The bias on mine was set at 38 mV when I tested it... I don't know if that's considerably cold, but Fender recommends 40 mV so that's what I set it to.
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The majority of Super Champs I've had across my workbench (that have not been rebiased since they left Fender) have been in the 15-30 range.
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mickey wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:15 pm Let me explain the Neodymium speakers like this: If you are looking for a replacement speaker for an ACOUSTIC amp, get a neodymium speaker.
This is because it will make the thing sound more acoustic.

Ok, what am I getting at here? Neodymium magnets are the strongest magnets per unit volume (per ounce of magnet weight) known to man.
Thus it gives the amp much better control of the speaker cone compared to a ceramic or AlNiCo speaker with the same size magnet.
I've wondered how they would work in pickups? Wonder if I could talk T.V.Jones into trying them?

I used the C10Q because that was Leo's favorite 10" speaker for his amps back in the "Golden Era" of Fender.

BillM told me he used the "Ragin Cajun" in his because he happened to have one laying around for another project when doing the Super Champ review.
He regretted that because he felt there were other (much better) speakers for the SCXD.
But everyone acted like lemmings and got in line to install Ragin Cajun's because billm did.
I never could get him to tell me what his first choice would have been. :)
I do believe there are pickups made with neodymium magnets. They're usually something like 22k Ohms and marketed to metal players. I can't think of any brand off the top of my head (maybe Guitar Fetish?), but I'm pretty sure I've seen them.
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mickey wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:23 pm The majority of Super Champs I've had across my workbench (that have not been rebiased since they left Fender) have been in the 15-30 range.
Wow!
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Mossman wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:29 pm
mickey wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:23 pm The majority of Super Champs I've had across my workbench (that have not been rebiased since they left Fender) have been in the 15-30 range.
Wow!
Yeah!

Causes me to wonder if they are even being checked at the factory.



re: Neodymium pickups:
I'm much more of a T.V. Jones/Gretsch pickup guy than a 22k metal pickup guy. :lol:
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mickey wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:15 pm BillM told me he used the "Ragin Cajun" in his because he happened to have one laying around for another project when doing the Super Champ review.
He regretted that because he felt there were other (much better) speakers for the SCXD.
But everyone acted like lemmings and got in line to install Ragin Cajun's because billm did.
I never could get him to tell me what his first choice would have been. :)
I almost forgot to mention: when I was doing my research, I did get the impression that the Ragin' Cajun had kind of a "fan boy" type following (same with the C Rex to a lesser degree), because of that, every recommendation for that speaker held a little less sway for me. I'm never one to go with the popular choice just because it's popular, and I think that might have had a bit of influence in my decision to go with the Weber.
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mickey wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:40 pm re: Neodymium pickups:
I'm much more of a T.V. Jones/Gretsch pickup guy than a 22k metal pickup guy. :lol:
It may be that you can only make a super-hot pickup with neodymium, considering how strong the magnetic field is.
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Mossman wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:05 pm
mickey wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:40 pm re: Neodymium pickups:
I'm much more of a T.V. Jones/Gretsch pickup guy than a 22k metal pickup guy. :lol:
It may be that you can only make a super-hot pickup with neodymium, considering how strong the magnetic field is.
Oops! Had not thought about that! :D
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"Yeah, this is such a fantastic amp, it's a shame that Fender decided to utterly cripple it with that shitty speaker. I can't help but think if Fender put something half-way decent in this amp, they would have sold a lot more of them. They'd probably still be making them today... Or maybe we'd be up the X3 or X4 by now. "

Well, seeing this first hand it's more like this. Engineering wants good speakers and other good parts. Marketing says no, cost too much. ( OH, OUR PROFIT MARGINS!)
Resistors, caps, wire, screws, cost a fraction of a cent each. Speakers, transformers, cost $$$$$$$ major dollars (a few dollars) so they will not spend the money on those building the items.

I'm sure the Webers and the ragin, cannabis rex. etc, are factory broken in or the surround loosened up. I doubt very much the new Jensens are broken in. Play loud bass heavy music thru it for a day or week and i can bet it sounds a lot more mellow and smooth.
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Neo magnets on speakers doesn’t mean metal, it means light weight for aging guitarists!
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Mossman wrote:
mickey wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:40 pm re: Neodymium pickups:
I'm much more of a T.V. Jones/Gretsch pickup guy than a 22k metal pickup guy. Image
It may be that you can only make a super-hot pickup with neodymium, considering how strong the magnetic field is.
Wonder about the Revelation Gibson Recording style pickups that used neo magnets, the pickups in the original guitars they were emulating are the furthest thing from metal.

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honyock wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:28 am It may be that you can only make a super-hot pickup with neodymium, considering how strong the magnetic field is. Wonder about the Revelation Gibson Recording style pickups that used neo magnets, the pickups in the original guitars they were emulating are the furthest thing from metal.
I have a Revelation RLR (Recording style). I didn't know what kind of magnets are in them, but they are very unusual pickups. 4 wire, but single coil in nature. I think they are basically a stacked humbucker. In some configurations, they are definitely hot, but not really metal hot. I have no idea what kind of resistor/capacitor magic is going on behind the switching, but they're not for metal. I can get humbucker, Fenderish single coil, and P90 tones out of that guitar simply by switching its "tone selector", which is not the same as the pickup selector or phase switch. Oddly, I have wound some neodymium based pickups and never liked how they sounded, so I understand the expectation of harsh/shrill/bright. But honestly, the RLR is one of my better sounding, guitars and probably my most flexible.

To the OP: I do have a stock SuperChamp X2 I like a lot, and now I have to consider a speaker swap for it - thanks! 8-)
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Chocol8 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:33 pm Neo magnets on speakers doesn’t mean metal, it means light weight for aging guitarists!
Unfortunately, I built the cabinet out of solid oak (because I had some laying around)
so you'd never notice the weight of the speaker irrespective of the speaker used. :roll:
Learned a lesson 'cause I'll never build an amp/speaker cab out of solid oak again!
SCXD02.jpg
.
That pic was made while the case was still under construction.
When finished it looks like this:
CabCorner.jpg
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On a positive note, at least you didn't use slabs of lead, tungsten, or depleted uranium!
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