Mission Impossible? Amp search

[solteroblues]

Guys, I'm hoping you can help me with my "impossible" amp search. I know this is long winded, but I figured the more detail of what I'm looking for, the better you can help me.

First, my limits. I have WAY more money (budget of up to $1500 MAX) than I have talent (ZERO) or ability (LESS THAN ZERO). Also, I don't have the greatest ears in the guitar community, I hear just fine, but I'm not going to be able to really discern so many of these nuances that so many players say they can hear - definitely no Eric Johnson being able to tell if a pickup has 10,000 winds or 10,001 and anything like that. I also have some rather nice gear that I'm just not satisfied with. I currently have a Helix LT, a Marshall Origin 20 combo, a Katana MkII 100 watt, and a Valeton GP200. in the past, I've owned a Marshall SL5, a Mini-Jubilee, a PRS MT15, and I believe it was a JVM1 50th Anniversary 1 watt. Some of my previously owned amps may have gotten me what I want, but at the time, I didn't really play as much as I should have and sold them, so these as suggestions are ok, too. The digital stuff is ok, but I keep getting a fizz that I just really don't want. I've tried using the EQ to get rid of that fizz, but as soon as I tone that down, the sound becomes too muddy. My Origin 20 sounds great at ear busting volume, but it has no crunch until gain is all the way up and the Master is around 11 o'clock or higher, and probably won't ever get to the gain levels higher than AC/DC. And its too loud for me on anything above about 8 o'clock. An attenuator would probably work, but if I have to spend another $500 to get this amp to sound good, I'd rather sell it and buy something $500 more expensive that will play quietly but with the gain I want. I also don't want to have to use pedals, as in my experience, it's too much to fiddle with and I'd never play, just like with the modelers I have. I find that I play around with the settings more than actually playing. Currently, I don't have an amp cabinet, I only have combo amps or studio monitors, but I've been thinking of building a cab so I can expand my options to include heads.

Now, my goals. I want a good/decent tube amp (nothing too boutique that costs an arm and a leg), but it has to be set up so that I can play at bedroom volumes. I'm not gigging, most of my time to play is when others are asleep. I don't want to have to have a separate attenuator, as good ones are as expensive as my budget for my amp. I definitely want Marshall tones. I want to be able to play earlier (Bon Scott Era up to Back in Black) AC/DC with that relatively "low" gain that sounds so killer, but that has clarity that when you're playing chords it doesn't just sound like a fuzzy mess. I also want to be able to get enough gain to play hair metal, but I don't need anything higher gain than that. Still, clarity is just as important as gain to me. My perfect amp would be a 2-channel amp that channel 1 was like a JTM or JMP, and channel 2 would be a JCM800.... but that sounds good at low volume. Something that I could just change channels on or turn down my guitar's volume knob to change the amount of gain quickly and easily. I don't want so many options that I waste all of my time fooling around with settings. Set it and forget it, flip a switch to change sounds if need be.

Some of the options I've been looking at, but have no way of testing out... Ceriatone 2202, another Mini-Jubilee, one of the Marshall Studio Classic JC20H, one of the little 1 watt 50th Anniversary Marshalls (but they're quickly getting out of my price range). What else should I be looking at?

[solteroblues]

to summarize, I want a true tube amp that can go between AC/DC to Slash to Ratt/Poison levels of gain, but ABSOLUTELY NO FIZZINESS, and I can play at bedroom volumes. As simple as can be so I don't spend all my time playing with settings.

Thanks guys!

[Partscaster]

A 5watt head which can switch down to 1w and .5w is what you get with a Bugera T5 Infinium.
The gain knob is fine, I only use a little. Good reverb.
The head is 219$. Can drive a 112 or 212 just fine up to medium loudness drummer levels.
You have to step to a V22 Infinium combo to house a 12". The v5 combo only houses 8"....which might be fine.
With just the 219$ head, you could still budget for a couple 112 cabs with differing speakers if that suited you...maybe a bedroom stereo set up.

[solteroblues]

I thought about the T5. There's one for sale at a pawn shop near me... can it do hair metal gain levels at bedroom volume?

[solteroblues]

Anyone have any experience with the Friedman Pink Taco?

[tonebender]

I would recommend you try out the HT-5R MKII. I used to have the HT5 mini stack and I kept it right by my desk and computer. I did all Utube lesson/learning songs on that amp and it was the perfect low volume, in the housel, amp I have ever owned. The drive channel nails the gain sound that is pleasing to my ears.

[Mr. Leyvatone]

I’ve been in your shoes before. Hopefully you’ll get some good input from the others but I’m going to play devil’s advocate (ie, tell you to extinguish your GAS because you already have what you need).

1. Your Katana is an amazing pedal platform. And the 100 is absolutely enough to play a gig. I have seen some amazing players in Nashville use them for years. If you want a lot of tonal flexibility (like to be in a cover band) this is a good approach. I don’t think you get much better tone from more expensive amps (once it joins a mix of other instruments).

2. Your Origin 20 is an awesome amp if used correctly. You’re right, it doesn’t have much happening until you crank the gain. Solution: Crank the gain. My bandmate has an Origin 50 and mistakenly tries to use it as a pedal platform running low gain and more volume. When I had to play his rig I plugged straight in (caveat: he has a reverb pedal in the fx loop). Crank the gain, add some bass, then adjust the Master to the room. Then you have the flexibility using your guitar volume knob(s) that really happy guitarists rave about. Add a basic boost or OD if you need to squeeze any more juice out of it.

That’s my take if you are playing in a band situation. If you’re just rocking out on the couch remember this: high wattage amps turned down sound like poop. So if you are hellbent on buying something, go low wattage (max 5) so you can make it cook.

Bummer that you can’t play loudly. Unless the speakers are moving some serious air no amp sounds great. A Katana that’s cooking sounds better than a Friedman that’s running at (or just above) idle.

[solteroblues]

The origin is clean as a whistle with the gain dimed AND the boost engaged until you get the master up to about noon. Even at its lowest wattage that is WAY too loud... I mean you'll pop your ear drums. Honestly, the power attenuator on it doesn't make that much difference on this amp.

[Partscaster]

I thought about the T5. There's one for sale at a pawn shop near me... can it do hair metal gain levels at bedroom volume?

I cant say. I'd guess, probably with a suitable pedal and speaker.

[golem]

I recently picked up a Rock Crusher attenuator used. If you can grab a good price on a high quality attenuator, to the point where you can sell it for what you paid if you decide it's not the answer, I'd suggest trying it out. It was a game changer for me. I'm using it with a Carvin legacy that's infamously loud and even at -20db it has a fairly neutral impact on tone (there are switches for EQ options). If it sounds more compressed it's because the drop in volume does tend to give that impression.

One nice thing about about this option is that it's also allowing you to play other amps at higher volumes. It can change the way you use amps you have or open up the choices you'd make for owning amps going forward.

[solteroblues]

I would recommend you try out the HT-5R MKII. I used to have the HT5 mini stack and I kept it right by my desk and computer. I did all Utube lesson/learning songs on that amp and it was the perfect low volume, in the housel, amp I have ever owned. The drive channel nails the gain sound that is pleasing to my ears.

I had a HT-1R that I only kept for a few weeks, as it had that awful fizzy sound that I'm trying to avoid. I would imagine the 5 is similar.

[Rollin Hand]

My suggestion is the Marshall DSL5 or 20, head or combo. Yes, they have more gain than you need (everything does these days), but you don't have to turn the gain up all the way.

Honestly though, if you have modelers, they are your best silent practice option. Decent headphones, and away you go. I barely use amps anymore.

[golem]

I've had a Helix LT and a Helix floor. Sold both, but not because they had fizz. It did sound unpleasant with those FRFR speakers everyone suggests using. I found it was great with expensive headphones I bought for them HD6XX via drop. They also sound great through a Quilter into a cab with the speaker modelling turned off.

Anyhow, I did find it was a great solution for bedroom volume playing. But, I can't speak to the fizz he's experiencing.
An attenuator is great for what he wants. If I wanted to play with headphones I'd probably be looking for a different type of attenautor than the one I actually use. You'd probably want something with good cab sims and IR rather then the ability to reduce db significantly. Mine excels at reducing the volume, but isn't a tool for loading IRs. It does have a direct out though.

I don't particularly love the Weber, Bugera, and THD options. They're okay if you're just taking off a few decibels but they're the reason people think attenuators have tone suck.

[uwmcscott]

Guys, I'm hoping you can help me with my "impossible" amp search.

I want a good/decent tube amp (nothing too boutique that costs an arm and a leg), but it has to be set up so that I can play at bedroom volumes.

I think you answered your own question in your first sentence. I jest of course but honestly I am pretty much in the same exact situation you are. I only play at home and almost always at very low volume or through headphones. I have owned quite a few different low to mid-wattage tube amplifiers from Blackstar, Peavey, Fender, Mesa and others I probably don't remember, but not a single one of them was able to get the full on "cranked" amp sound without being cranked. Of all of them the Blackstar was probably the closest - mine was a HT Club 40, which is actually a pretty big and incredibly loud amp, but it had a great master volume. I never owned but was able to get some decent playing time on some Friedman amps at Dave's in La Crosse, and those are supposed to be the holy grail of low volume/high gain. I played a Dirty Shirley and ad the Pink Taco and indeed they are nice, but even so it's still not the same sound at bedroom level.


But in the end, my go to ended up being digital - I have a Boss Katana that does the low-volume/high gain thing better than any tube amp did. My personal theory is that at low volumes, the amp is trying to "fill in the blanks" so to speak artificially recreate a sound that only exists at higher volumes. With a tube amp that's either done with an attenuator ( scaling the loud sound back down ) or by adding something via gain or other analog circuitry voodoo. With a digital amp that's done digitally of course. And I think the digital technology has improved to the point that it does a better job than analog. Just my $.02 though, tone is completely subjective - so maybe you just need to keep trying different amps until you find one you like.

[tonebender]

@uwmcscott The Blackstar HT5 is the only amp I have ever owned that did Marshall goodness at very low volumes so I second the Blackstar route.

When I was in the US Navy and sailing around the world on a ship in the 70's there was a need to play at low volumes. The amp many used back then was the little Pignose. I remember a guy that ran a Strat through a 70's MXR Distortion pedal into a Pignose like in the picture below and it was glorious. I still think about that tone. One would have never thought it possible.

[andrewsrea]

A friend of mine has an EVH 5150 Icon that switches between 10w and 40w and has the best master volume I've heard, perhaps ever. It is a gainy amp, but we got the clean side to sound JTM ish and the hot channel to sound 800ish. He plays at 70dB to 75dB.

That said, keep reminding yourself that your ears hear frequencies better between 82dB and 87dB and it will sound different in a band mix than alone. It is common for folks to have this full-frequency sound practicing that gets lost in a band situation.

Last, you may want to spend some of that money on lesions. Tone is in the hands and mind. I know players who can take a cigar box guitar played through an am radio and make it sound good.

[Rollin Hand]

A friend of mine has an EVH 5150 Icon that switches between 10w and 40w and has the best master volume I've heard, perhaps ever. It is a gainy amp, but we got the clean side to sound JTM ish and the hot channel to sound 800ish. He plays at 70dB to 75dB.

That said, keep reminding yourself that your ears hear frequencies better between 82dB and 87dB and it will sound different in a band mix than alone. It is common for folks to have this full-frequency sound practicing that gets lost in a band situation.

Last, you may want to spend some of that money on lesions. Tone is in the hands and mind. I know players who can take a cigar box guitar played through an am radio and make it sound good.

Speaking of the Icon line...

https://www.guitarworld.com/news/evh-51 ... bos-launch

New 1x10 combo. Pricey, but 15 watts that you can knock down by 3/4s, and a 1x10 so you're not getting as much whoomph.

[glasshand]

Let us know if you find something. I've been looking for something similar and my experience has been much the same. The Origin 20 is OK if you dime it...at which point it's extremely loud. Was there something you didn't like about the SL-5? I sold mine because a 45-pound, 5W combo was not the most practical of things for me. Something else I tried and ended up passing on was the Vox Night Train G2. I could just never get the tone I liked and any headroom at the same time.

I know you said you want a tube amp, but have you considered the Orange Crush line? They can definitely do a Marshall-ish thing at reasonable volumes, although whether you like the Orange-ish vibe they always have is something only you can answer. I also sometimes wish for my old Jet City 22H back, although again, it had somewhat of a Soldano-ish quality that you might or might not like.

[solteroblues]

so I did decide on something, something against what some of you guys said, so apologies in advance! LOL

I went with the Friedman Pink Taco V2 20 watt head. Of course the only way I could listen to it was through Youtube demos, but from what the reviewers have said and what sounded good to me through Youtube, it seems to be exactly what I wanted. It has a gain structure switch that lets you choose between low, mid, and high gain but each is supposedly based on a different Marshall model, between the JTM/JMP/JCM sounds, no fizz, and good at low volumes.

Danish Pete said it has the best Master volume control he's ever heard. So, we'll see when it gets here, hopefully over the next couple of days... I got a good deal on a used one, so if it doesn't work out I should be able to flip it easily enough. I think what the Anderton's video said that sold me the most was that it gives you that marshall sound you hear on recordings but can never get from an actual marshall... I thought that was interesting.

[tonebender]

I gig with 15W amps with a drummer. For bedroom volume I would think 1-5 watts is the desirable range.

[uwmcscott]

so I did decide on something, something against what some of you guys said, so apologies in advance! LOL

I went with the Friedman Pink Taco V2 20 watt head. Of course the only way I could listen to it was through Youtube demos, but from what the reviewers have said and what sounded good to me through Youtube, it seems to be exactly what I wanted. It has a gain structure switch that lets you choose between low, mid, and high gain but each is supposedly based on a different Marshall model, between the JTM/JMP/JCM sounds, no fizz, and good at low volumes.

Danish Pete said it has the best Master volume control he's ever heard. So, we'll see when it gets here, hopefully over the next couple of days... I got a good deal on a used one, so if it doesn't work out I should be able to flip it easily enough. I think what the Anderton's video said that sold me the most was that it gives you that marshall sound you hear on recordings but can never get from an actual marshall... I thought that was interesting.

Hope it is exactly as you hope it will be. Friedman certainly has an excellent reputation and there's a lot of good reviews out there. I played the PT V1 and the Full-size Dirty Shirley for a bit and the Master volume is indeed very usable.

[solteroblues]

so I did decide on something, something against what some of you guys said, so apologies in advance! LOL

I went with the Friedman Pink Taco V2 20 watt head. Of course the only way I could listen to it was through Youtube demos, but from what the reviewers have said and what sounded good to me through Youtube, it seems to be exactly what I wanted. It has a gain structure switch that lets you choose between low, mid, and high gain but each is supposedly based on a different Marshall model, between the JTM/JMP/JCM sounds, no fizz, and good at low volumes.

Danish Pete said it has the best Master volume control he's ever heard. So, we'll see when it gets here, hopefully over the next couple of days... I got a good deal on a used one, so if it doesn't work out I should be able to flip it easily enough. I think what the Anderton's video said that sold me the most was that it gives you that marshall sound you hear on recordings but can never get from an actual marshall... I thought that was interesting.

Hope it is exactly as you hope it will be. Friedman certainly has an excellent reputation and there's a lot of good reviews out there. I played the PT V1 and the Full-size Dirty Shirley for a bit and the Master volume is indeed very usable.

I got it late Friday afternoon. It's EXACTLY what I wanted. Even though it's 20 watts, you can turn it down to speaking volume and it sounds nearly as good as it does cranked. The Master is very good. That was the issue with the Origin, the gain can be boosted and turned up to 11, but you don't get any breakup until the Master hits around 4-5, by that time it's way too loud. This can turned to about mid gain, put the master on like 1, and it's glorious!

I'll post a full NAD post later, once I've had a chance to really play through it more, as this weekend was too busy to get much play time with it. it does have a preamp tube that is bad, doesn't affect tone that I can tell, but even with the MV at 0 and no guitar plugged up, there's a sound like the wind blowing coming out of the cabinet. I emailed Dave Friedman and he told me it's a bad tube, so I'll have to get that replaced soon.