I FINALLY GOT A PROPER JAZZ BOX: 1997 HERITAGE GOLDEN EAGLE
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toomanycats
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I definitely wasn't looking for one, but today I just happened to cross paths with this Heritage at an unbelievable price. I knew that I'd likely never again have the opportunity to buy such a top notch jazz guitar at anywhere near such a bargain, so I went for it. Now I feel pressure to learn some real jazz, and I don't just mean all of those "outside the box," jazzy Robin Ford and Gary Moore licks I've copped over the years. I mean like real proper stuff, like Joe Pass and those other old dudes I used to see in the back section of Guitar Player Magazine when I was a kid.
“There are only two means of refuge from the miseries of life: Music and Cats!” Albert Schweitzer
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BatUtilityBelt
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Happy NGD! That's gorgeous.
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Tonray's Ghost
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Hit us with some bebop daddy-O
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toomanycats
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I feel the need to reveal more of the details about how this incredible instrument found it's way into my hands. It's a story that only fellow guitarists on a forum like this can understand and appreciate.
The more I look at it, I realize that this guitar is a tour de force display of the luthier's art. I can't believe I actually own this thing, and I'm astonished at how little I paid for it. It is such a thing of beauty, it plays indescribably well, and the tone is heavenly.
When I walked into the shop where I purchased the Heritage one of the employees immediately asked, "Can you look at a guitar for us?" At that same moment I had already spotted the Heritage hanging on the wall and been transfixed by it's striking good looks. The owner piped in that he wanted my opinion on whether it was real or not, as he had some doubts.
My immediate thought was, "Who fakes a Heritage?" I mean, apart from us guitar players, the brand is largely unknown when compared with Gibson. If somebody had the ability, and the motive was profit, and they were going to spend the time and effort to make such an incredible copy, then they would surely be better off making fakes of a Gibson L-5, for which there is a greater market, and which consequently command significantly higher prices.
After picking it up and looking it over, and taking the aforementioned points into consideration, I pronounced that it was without a doubt real. It had some age and authentic play wear on it, though it was otherwise in excellent condition. There was flaking of the gold on the Grover Imperial tuners, the binding along the fretboard had hairline cracks where the frets and position markers were, and the faceplate of the headstock was scuffed. All normal things you see on a guitar of this type of handmade manufacture, which had clearly been played, and which one would pay Gibson many thousands of dollars for as "Murphy Aging."
I must admit that, not being knowledgeable about the Heritage brand, I didn't know exactly what model it was. There didn't seem to be any identifying marks regarding that. However, a quick look online revealed that any Heritage archtop was selling for double or triple the price of this one. As I said in my OP, I did not leave the house that morning looking to buy a premium archtop guitar. While I was completely blown away by the beauty and craftsmanship of this Heritage, I couldn't immediately wrap my mind around buying it. So I walked away.
When I got home I did some intense research and realized that the guitar I had seen was in fact a Golden Eagle, which is the flagship of the Heritage line. The reason why I didn't initially recognize what the guitar was was because . . .
1) There was a missing placard that is supposed to be affixed to the tailpiece and which reads "GOLDEN EAGLE."
2) The guitar was separated from its case, which on a high end guitar like this would typically contain literature that identified the model, the serial number, and verified its authenticity. I had asked several times if they were sure there was no case, as it seemed inconceivable that such a premium and delicate guitar was bereft of its hard case (that it was seemed indicative of either poor stewardship, ignorance, or shenanigans). The shop repeatedly confirmed that the case did not come in with the guitar.
That these two things were missing, the placard and the case, were a double edged sword for me.
On the one hand, it would obviously be nice to have them.
On the other hand, the fact that they were not there left the seller, who was not a guitar expert, in doubt about the exact model of the guitar, its general authenticity, and its value. This guy is a businessman that pays cash for stuff and then sells it for more. All he cared about was that he made his profit. For these reasons he had it priced ridiculously below the true value of the instrument.
Once all of this dawned on me I hurried back to the shop and immediately purchased the guitar. That, in a nutshell, is how I came into ownership of this Heritage Golden Eagle for a stupid low price.
I would bet that the missing placard is in the Golden Eagle's mated case, wherever that may be. How or why did they become separated? Unknown. I can't imagine that the person who brought the Heritage in was a guitar player. They couldn't have been. Think about it, they took only half of what I paid for this guitar from the shop, which is just insane! They waked away from thousands of dollars of value. They too, like the shop owner, did not know what they had.
Below is a Heritage Golden Eagle that sold on Ebay last week, asking price $8300. It is the exact same year as mine and was originally purchased at Gruhn Guitars in Nashville. It has the Golden Eagle tailpiece placard that is missing on mine, along with the original case and what looks like some documentation. Our pick guards are different, but I like mine better.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/314672744220?chn=ps
The more I look at it, I realize that this guitar is a tour de force display of the luthier's art. I can't believe I actually own this thing, and I'm astonished at how little I paid for it. It is such a thing of beauty, it plays indescribably well, and the tone is heavenly.
When I walked into the shop where I purchased the Heritage one of the employees immediately asked, "Can you look at a guitar for us?" At that same moment I had already spotted the Heritage hanging on the wall and been transfixed by it's striking good looks. The owner piped in that he wanted my opinion on whether it was real or not, as he had some doubts.
My immediate thought was, "Who fakes a Heritage?" I mean, apart from us guitar players, the brand is largely unknown when compared with Gibson. If somebody had the ability, and the motive was profit, and they were going to spend the time and effort to make such an incredible copy, then they would surely be better off making fakes of a Gibson L-5, for which there is a greater market, and which consequently command significantly higher prices.
After picking it up and looking it over, and taking the aforementioned points into consideration, I pronounced that it was without a doubt real. It had some age and authentic play wear on it, though it was otherwise in excellent condition. There was flaking of the gold on the Grover Imperial tuners, the binding along the fretboard had hairline cracks where the frets and position markers were, and the faceplate of the headstock was scuffed. All normal things you see on a guitar of this type of handmade manufacture, which had clearly been played, and which one would pay Gibson many thousands of dollars for as "Murphy Aging."
I must admit that, not being knowledgeable about the Heritage brand, I didn't know exactly what model it was. There didn't seem to be any identifying marks regarding that. However, a quick look online revealed that any Heritage archtop was selling for double or triple the price of this one. As I said in my OP, I did not leave the house that morning looking to buy a premium archtop guitar. While I was completely blown away by the beauty and craftsmanship of this Heritage, I couldn't immediately wrap my mind around buying it. So I walked away.
When I got home I did some intense research and realized that the guitar I had seen was in fact a Golden Eagle, which is the flagship of the Heritage line. The reason why I didn't initially recognize what the guitar was was because . . .
1) There was a missing placard that is supposed to be affixed to the tailpiece and which reads "GOLDEN EAGLE."
2) The guitar was separated from its case, which on a high end guitar like this would typically contain literature that identified the model, the serial number, and verified its authenticity. I had asked several times if they were sure there was no case, as it seemed inconceivable that such a premium and delicate guitar was bereft of its hard case (that it was seemed indicative of either poor stewardship, ignorance, or shenanigans). The shop repeatedly confirmed that the case did not come in with the guitar.
That these two things were missing, the placard and the case, were a double edged sword for me.
On the one hand, it would obviously be nice to have them.
On the other hand, the fact that they were not there left the seller, who was not a guitar expert, in doubt about the exact model of the guitar, its general authenticity, and its value. This guy is a businessman that pays cash for stuff and then sells it for more. All he cared about was that he made his profit. For these reasons he had it priced ridiculously below the true value of the instrument.
Once all of this dawned on me I hurried back to the shop and immediately purchased the guitar. That, in a nutshell, is how I came into ownership of this Heritage Golden Eagle for a stupid low price.
I would bet that the missing placard is in the Golden Eagle's mated case, wherever that may be. How or why did they become separated? Unknown. I can't imagine that the person who brought the Heritage in was a guitar player. They couldn't have been. Think about it, they took only half of what I paid for this guitar from the shop, which is just insane! They waked away from thousands of dollars of value. They too, like the shop owner, did not know what they had.
Below is a Heritage Golden Eagle that sold on Ebay last week, asking price $8300. It is the exact same year as mine and was originally purchased at Gruhn Guitars in Nashville. It has the Golden Eagle tailpiece placard that is missing on mine, along with the original case and what looks like some documentation. Our pick guards are different, but I like mine better.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/314672744220?chn=ps
“There are only two means of refuge from the miseries of life: Music and Cats!” Albert Schweitzer
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andrewsrea
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HNGD!
Live life to the fullest! - Rob
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tonebender
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Congrats, these type deals are getting fewer and farther between. I had a Heritage H-535 about 15 years ago. My bandmate owned it and did not like it and I traded him even for it. I cannot even remember what I gave up but it was something high end that I had at the time. It was a stunning guitar but I never could bond with the neck. It was just too narrow at the nut. I remember seeing Roy Clark just ripping a semi-hollow one time on TV and it was a Heritage 535. They make incredible guitars of the highest quality.
"Will follow through with a transaction when the terms are agreed upon" almightybunghole
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toomanycats
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The neck is quite narrow at the nut, and what is more, there is no volute whatsoever. People always joke about the headstock of a Gibson breaking off, but I'd bet there's been plenty of Heritage headstocks that have succumbed to the same fate.tonebender wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 1:07 pm Congrats, these type deals are getting fewer and farther between. I had a Heritage H-535 about 15 years ago. My bandmate owned it and did not like it and I traded him even for it. I cannot even remember what I gave up but it was something high end that I had at the time. It was a stunning guitar but I never could bond with the neck. It was just too narrow at the nut. I remember seeing Roy Clark just ripping a semi-hollow one time on TV and it was a Heritage 535. They make incredible guitars of the highest quality.
You're right about the quality too. This Heritage feels like the kind of instrument that Gibson only produces out of their Custom Shop. To compare the Golden Eagle to an expensive Gibson, in my opinion this Heritage is superior to the B.B. Lucille I owned not too long ago. Don't get me wrong, Lucille was great, but in comparison to this Heritage is was maybe just a little generic and plastic feeling. The Heritage gives the overall impression of an instrument from decades past, like what was being built 70 years ago. IDK, maybe I'm still in the honeymoon phase, but that's my honest impression right now.
“There are only two means of refuge from the miseries of life: Music and Cats!” Albert Schweitzer
Congrats Again. A thing of beauty is a joy forever..
Re-The neck is quite narrow at the nut, and what is more, there is no volute whatsoever. People always joke about the headstock of a Gibson breaking off, but I'd bet there's been plenty of Heritage headstocks that have succumbed to the same fate.
The neck being laminated wood would be a plus.
Re-The neck is quite narrow at the nut, and what is more, there is no volute whatsoever. People always joke about the headstock of a Gibson breaking off, but I'd bet there's been plenty of Heritage headstocks that have succumbed to the same fate.
The neck being laminated wood would be a plus.
Don't you know the history of Heritage???toomanycats wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 1:28 pmThe neck is quite narrow at the nut, and what is more, there is no volute whatsoever. People always joke about the headstock of a Gibson breaking off, but I'd bet there's been plenty of Heritage headstocks that have succumbed to the same fate.tonebender wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 1:07 pm Congrats, these type deals are getting fewer and farther between. I had a Heritage H-535 about 15 years ago. My bandmate owned it and did not like it and I traded him even for it. I cannot even remember what I gave up but it was something high end that I had at the time. It was a stunning guitar but I never could bond with the neck. It was just too narrow at the nut. I remember seeing Roy Clark just ripping a semi-hollow one time on TV and it was a Heritage 535. They make incredible guitars of the highest quality.
You're right about the quality too. This Heritage feels like the kind of instrument that Gibson only produces out of their Custom Shop. To compare the Golden Eagle to an expensive Gibson, in my opinion this Heritage is superior to the B.B. Lucille I owned not too long ago. Don't get me wrong, Lucille was great, but in comparison to this Heritage is was maybe just a little generic and plastic feeling. The Heritage gives the overall impression of an instrument from decades past, like what was being built 70 years ago. IDK, maybe I'm still in the honeymoon phase, but that's my honest impression right now.
Henry decided to move Gibson to Nashville. Well, the guys in the Gibson Custom Shop refused to go & all quit.
They bought the old Custom Shop building from Hemry & Heritage was born.
Gandalf the Intonationer
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tonebender
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@mickey , I think they get a little latitude on their designs too. Probably part of the contract when they bought the old facility. Other than the headstock they are pretty much the same shape. Some think Heritage is better because their LP is one piece or at least they were. Some of their best artisans stayed behind and somehow they have not been able to get the traction one would think they would get. They are like unicorns in the wild. Other than the one I owned I do not think I have ever seen one live on a stage. I saw a used one in a GC just a few weeks ago.
"Will follow through with a transaction when the terms are agreed upon" almightybunghole
My guess would be the guys in the Custom Shop were absolutely the best craftsmen Gibson had.tonebender wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 5:54 pm @mickey , I think they get a little latitude on their designs too. Probably part of the contract when they bought the old facility. Other than the headstock they are pretty much the same shape. Some think Heritage is better because their LP is one piece or at least they were. Some of their best artisans stayed behind and somehow they have not been able to get the traction one would think they would get. They are like unicorns in the wild. Other than the one I owned I do not think I have ever seen one live on a stage. I saw a used one in a GC just a few weeks ago.
For at least a year after Heritage was formed, you could not order a custom Gibson.
Since the if you place a custom order it goes down Gibson's regular assembly line but is marked with some sort of paperwork to let everyone know it is a custom.
I'm told Gibson Montana works differently. But don't know what the differences are.
Gandalf the Intonationer
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toomanycats
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@mickey, what Heritage models do you own? When I bought the Golden Eagle I knew I would do I write up about it here and remembered that you had posted about yours. I anticipated that a Heritage thread would get your attention.
I'm guessing that lefty Golden Eagles are about as rare as hen's teeth. Probably had to special order one of those.
I knew everything you're saying about the history of Gibson's relation to Heritage, though it's one thing to just know it, and another thing to actually have one of these guitars in one's hands. It really drives the point home. I'd never even seen a Heritage before owning this one.
I'm not sure how you feel about Vintage Japanese Matsumoku guitars, but to me this Heritage feels like the very best guitars of that type, especially the neck. It is apparent that a person who really understood what makes a guitar neck feel great spent a lot of time making it absolutely perfect, from the the frets, to the the nut height, to the rolled fingerboard. You can feel the time, expertise, and love that went into this guitar.
I'm guessing that lefty Golden Eagles are about as rare as hen's teeth. Probably had to special order one of those.
I knew everything you're saying about the history of Gibson's relation to Heritage, though it's one thing to just know it, and another thing to actually have one of these guitars in one's hands. It really drives the point home. I'd never even seen a Heritage before owning this one.
I'm not sure how you feel about Vintage Japanese Matsumoku guitars, but to me this Heritage feels like the very best guitars of that type, especially the neck. It is apparent that a person who really understood what makes a guitar neck feel great spent a lot of time making it absolutely perfect, from the the frets, to the the nut height, to the rolled fingerboard. You can feel the time, expertise, and love that went into this guitar.
“There are only two means of refuge from the miseries of life: Music and Cats!” Albert Schweitzer
I do not now & have not ever owned any Heritage guitars. I've never seen a lefty Heritage guitar, tho I know they do exist. And they have always followed Gibson's tradition of charging outlandish fees to make lefty's
During the years we lived in Nashville, we were sorta surrounded by Gibson employees so we were privy to lots of Gibson scuttlebutt. I've never understood why Gibson couldn't treat lefty's more like Gretsch, Fender or Martin?
(Gretsch adds $500 to the cost of the guitar, Fender & Martin have no extra charge. In the 1950's Gibson added $1000 to the cost and tossed order to the Custom Shop.)
During the years we lived in Nashville, we were sorta surrounded by Gibson employees so we were privy to lots of Gibson scuttlebutt. I've never understood why Gibson couldn't treat lefty's more like Gretsch, Fender or Martin?
(Gretsch adds $500 to the cost of the guitar, Fender & Martin have no extra charge. In the 1950's Gibson added $1000 to the cost and tossed order to the Custom Shop.)
Gandalf the Intonationer
I've got a black H-150 (LP style) and IIRC, @honyock has one too. I bought mine used, so I don't know anything about how difficult it is to get a lefty direct from Heritage.
I rarely see left-handed ones used. In fact, since 2014, I can't recall more than a couple being listed...
Delightful mix of insolence, arrogance and narcissism
Republican moderate trapped in a heavy metal chassis
Growing up, only kid in the neighborhood with an Uncle Ahkbar
Republican moderate trapped in a heavy metal chassis
Growing up, only kid in the neighborhood with an Uncle Ahkbar
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toomanycats
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That is weird. For some reason I could have sworn you had a Heritage. I remember you posting pics of your semi-hollows, and I must have mistaken Heritage with Gretsch. My mistake.mickey wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 8:39 am I do not now & have not ever owned any Heritage guitars. I've never seen a lefty Heritage guitar, tho I know they do exist. And they have always followed Gibson's tradition of charging outlandish fees to make lefty's
During the years we lived in Nashville, we were sorta surrounded by Gibson employees so we were privy to lots of Gibson scuttlebutt. I've never understood why Gibson couldn't treat lefty's more like Gretsch, Fender or Martin?
(Gretsch adds $500 to the cost of the guitar, Fender & Martin have no extra charge. In the 1950's Gibson added $1000 to the cost and tossed order to the Custom Shop.)
“There are only two means of refuge from the miseries of life: Music and Cats!” Albert Schweitzer
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toomanycats
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Since I've restrung the Heritage with 10s I find that the truss rod needs a turn to the left. It probably had something like 12s on it before, which is more customary for an archtop. What can I say, I like a light and springy touch. Lo and behold, the truss rod nut is exactly like a Gibson.
Anyone ever notice how much one of these Gibson truss rod wrenches looks like drug paraphenelia? If I had this laying on the console during a traffic stop I'd probably be shaken down with a charge.
Anyone ever notice how much one of these Gibson truss rod wrenches looks like drug paraphenelia? If I had this laying on the console during a traffic stop I'd probably be shaken down with a charge.
“There are only two means of refuge from the miseries of life: Music and Cats!” Albert Schweitzer
I do have a few Gretsch models.toomanycats wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:02 am
That is weird. For some reason I could have sworn you had a Heritage. I remember you posting pics of your semi-hollows, an I must have mistaken Heritage with Gretsch. My mistake.
Gandalf the Intonationer
A quick search for Super 100s showed a price range from $10K+ to over $30K, depending on the age and model...
Delightful mix of insolence, arrogance and narcissism
Republican moderate trapped in a heavy metal chassis
Growing up, only kid in the neighborhood with an Uncle Ahkbar
Republican moderate trapped in a heavy metal chassis
Growing up, only kid in the neighborhood with an Uncle Ahkbar
And some will bring considerably more:
https://acousticguitar.com/great-acoust ... uper-400n/
Back in 1997 Chet Atkins had Gibson make a few Super 4000's
The most p.o.s.h. archtop Gibson has ever made.
https://reverb.com/item/68543011-gibson ... -ever-made
Gandalf the Intonationer
My H-157 is now 25years old. When I was searching for mine, the lefties were about $1000 less than righties of the same LP Custom style, not sure why.tobijohn wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 8:54 amI've got a black H-150 (LP style) and IIRC, @honyock has one too. I bought mine used, so I don't know anything about how difficult it is to get a lefty direct from Heritage.
I rarely see left-handed ones used. In fact, since 2014, I can't recall more than a couple being listed...
Mine in particular looks to have made the rounds on Reverb before it landed in my care (sold at least 3 times in a year about 7 years ago before I got it 6 years ago). The 1st seller apparently had it for a good while.
10 years, 2 months, and 8 days of blissful ignorance ruined by that snake in the grass Major Tom.