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This news broke back in April, but I just found out about it today... This is a major drag, man... Swamp Ash has always been my favorite species of wood for solid-body guitars (even before I could tell one species of wood from another). Now they're only going to use it for Custom Shop and Re-issue guitars.


https://www.guitarplayer.com/news/fende ... ne-guitars

Fascinating.

This gives me an idea.

I can see their point in regard to the Emerald Ash Borer. I am not certain if the Ash trees harvested for use in guitars is the same species as around this part of the country, but here they are dying off like nobody's business. I've been travelling across the state for the new job a lot more the past few weeks and I notice huge tracts of them, and I think this year has been especialy bad. My father in law owns some acreage that includes some wetlands, and all the low-lying lands around the lake they are on are filled with stands of dead ones. When eveyrthing greened up this spring it was very noticeable. Same thing happened with Elm trees and the Dutch Elm disease around here 30-40 years ago, wiped them out completely.

uwmcscott wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:57 pm I can see their point in regard to the Emerald Ash Borer. I am not certain if the Ash trees harvested for use in guitars is the same species as around this part of the country, but here they are dying off like nobody's business. I've been travelling across the state for the new job a lot more the past few weeks and I notice huge tracts of them, and I think this year has been especialy bad. My father in law owns some acreage that includes some wetlands, and all the low-lying lands around the lake they are on are filled with stands of dead ones. When eveyrthing greened up this spring it was very noticeable. Same thing happened with Elm trees and the Dutch Elm disease around here 30-40 years ago, wiped them out completely.

I've read a few articles about it so far, and no one has mentioned if this is wide-spread, or limited to the Mississippi delta (where they harvest most of the "Swamp" Ash for guitars), but they estimate we could lose "billions" of Ash trees to this infestation. That sounds wide-spread to me.

rrobbone wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:32 pm Fascinating.

This gives me an idea.

Please share it with the rest of the class.

Mossman wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:17 pm I've read a few articles about it so far, and no one has mentioned if this is wide-spread, or limited to the Mississippi delta (where they harvest most of the "Swamp" Ash for guitars), but they estimate we could lose "billions" of Ash trees to this infestation. That sounds wide-spread to me.

Yes, around here it's very noticeable - and especially this year. You see them sticking up like white skeletons mixed in with everything else and there are literally acres of them dying at a time. I Imagine that whatever is happening to the trees likely makes the wood unusable for things like guitars and such too. It's a shame but it's the circle of life that is nature...something else will take their place.

uwmcscott wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:37 pm
Yes, around here it's very noticeable - and especially this year. You see them sticking up like white skeletons mixed in with everything else and there are literally acres of them dying at a time. I Imagine that whatever is happening to the trees likely makes the wood unusable for things like guitars and such too. It's a shame but it's the circle of life that is nature...something else will take their place.

Circle of life, perhaps, but this species of beetle isn't even indigenous to North America. It was brought here from Japan.

Thanks Japan... First Kudzu, now this?

We're taking basesball back.

Mossman wrote: ↑Sun Aug 30, 2020 12:02 am

uwmcscott wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:37 pm
Yes, around here it's very noticeable - and especially this year. You see them sticking up like white skeletons mixed in with everything else and there are literally acres of them dying at a time. I Imagine that whatever is happening to the trees likely makes the wood unusable for things like guitars and such too. It's a shame but it's the circle of life that is nature...something else will take their place.

Circle of life, perhaps, but this species of beetle isn't even indigenous to North America. It was brought here from Japan.

Thanks Japan... First Kudzu, now this?

We're taking basesball back.

I've always heard kudzu was imported from the Philippines???

In fact, I know the company my father worked for did!
They had people working full time fertilizing & watering it, but they never had any luck getting Kudzu to grow.
The following picture was taken from the driveway between the main road and the high school where I graduated in Tennessee.
You can see a bit of the main highway in the upper right of the pic, it is a 4 lane.

[mention]mickey[/mention] definitely Japan. The Smithsonian article is a bit long but the gist it's harder to grow than people think, won't survive grazing by animals, and is a lot less pervasive than people think.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science- ... 180956325/

mickey wrote: ↑Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:32 am
I've always heard kudzu was imported from the Philippines???

In fact, I know the company my father worked for did!
They had people working full time fertilizing & watering it, but they never had any luck getting Kudzu to grow.
The following picture was taken from the driveway between the main road and the high school where I graduated in Tennessee.
You can see a bit of the main highway in the upper right of the pic, it is a 4 lane.

I could be mistaken, but it's always been my understanding that Kudzu came from Japan. I'll have to check into that, but why on Earth would anybody want to cultivate Kudzu?? It's a blight that grows everywhere and chokes out all indigenous plant life. Most places want to get rid of Kudzu, not propagate it.

I didn't know there were deserts in Tennessee... I wouldn't be surprised if nothing would grow there from the looks of it. I just woke up, and I'm still groggy, so I can't tell if you're joking, or pulling my leg or something...

Mossman wrote: ↑Sun Aug 30, 2020 12:14 pm

mickey wrote: ↑Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:32 am
I've always heard kudzu was imported from the Philippines???

In fact, I know the company my father worked for did!
They had people working full time fertilizing & watering it, but they never had any luck getting Kudzu to grow.
The following picture was taken from the driveway between the main road and the high school where I graduated in Tennessee.
You can see a bit of the main highway in the upper right of the pic, it is a 4 lane.

I could be mistaken, but it's always been my understanding that Kudzu came from Japan. I'll have to check into that, but why on Earth would anybody want to cultivate Kudzu?? It's a blight that grows everywhere and chokes out all indigenous plant life. Most places want to get rid of Kudzu, not propagate it.

I didn't know there were deserts in Tennessee... I wouldn't be surprised if nothing would grow there from the looks of it. I just woke up, and I'm still groggy, so I can't tell if you're joking, or pulling my leg or something...

Actually, I was 100% serious (tho I have been corrected that it originally came from Japan.)
That was a man made desert in Tennessee. Our area was credited with inventing acid rain.
It was caused by a mining company cutting down thousands of acres of trees to feed their (open air) wood fired smelters
then the acid rain kept anything from growing back. Rain took care of eroding all the topsoil.
By the 1950's they were feeling guilty about what they had caused & the Georgia Highway Dept was planting scads of kudzu for erosion control.
So they imported tons of Kudzu from the Philippines but never had any success to speak of.
By the 1980's the mining company had gone belly up & the Federal Government called it one of the worst "Super Fund Sites"
thus spent billions of taxpayer dollars making it as ugly as the rest of Tennessee.
I think most of the locals would have preferred the Feds had left it alone.
At any rate, without regular watering & fertlize the mining company never had any luck growing Kudzu.

Mossman wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:30 pm This news broke back in April, but I just found out about it today... This is a major drag, man... Swamp Ash has always been my favorite species of wood for solid-body guitars (even before I could tell one species of wood from another). Now they're only going to use it for Custom Shop and Re-issue guitars.


https://www.guitarplayer.com/news/fende ... ne-guitars

Ash really is a wonderful wood, especially for strats. This one's my fave ash-bodied guitar in the stable:

mickey wrote: ↑Sun Aug 30, 2020 12:30 pm Actually, I was 100% serious (tho I have been corrected that it originally came from Japan.)
That was a man made desert in Tennessee. Our area was credited with inventing acid rain.
It was caused by a mining company cutting down thousands of acres of trees to feed their (open air) wood fired smelters
then the acid rain kept anything from growing back. Rain took care of eroding all the topsoil.
By the 1950's they were feeling guilty about what they had caused & the Georgia Highway Dept was planting scads of kudzu for erosion control.
So they imported tons of Kudzu from the Philippines but never had any success to speak of.
By the 1980's the mining company had gone belly up & the Federal Government called it one of the worst "Super Fund Sites"
thus spent billions of taxpayer dollars making it as ugly as the rest of Tennessee.
I think most of the locals would have preferred the Feds had left it alone.
At any rate, without regular watering & fertlize the mining company never had any luck growing Kudzu.

Wow... A land so ruined even Kudzu won't grow. I think if you have a problem, you can always count on the government to make it worse.

I've spent some time in Tennessee, but I've never thought of it as ugly. Admittedly, most of that time was spent on Beale St. in Memphis ( ), but I always thought the countryside was pretty.

slowhand84 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:35 pm Ash really is a wonderful wood, especially for strats.

Yeah, even before I played guitar, I always loved the look of a natural Ash Strat. When I was a sophmore in high school, I formed my first band. I played bass and my best friend at the time played guitar, and he had a Kappa "Wildcat" (Strat copy) made of Ash with a natural finish, white pickguard, and rich rosewood fretboard. It weighed a ton (definitely not Swamp Ash), but I thought it was the most beautiful guitar I'd ever seen in my life. It had that golden tan tint to it, and remember thinking if I ever got a Strat, I'd want it to look like that (though I didn't know what kind of wood it was at the time).

Now I'm thinking I better hurry up and get one before they don't exist anymore, and everyone starts demanding premium used prices for an Ash body guitar..

That one have looks nuts!

Mossman wrote: ↑Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:09 pm

slowhand84 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:35 pm Ash really is a wonderful wood, especially for strats.

Yeah, even before I played guitar, I always loved the look of a natural Ash Strat. When I was a sophmore in high school, I formed my first band. I played bass and my best friend at the time played guitar, and he had a Kappa "Wildcat" (Strat copy) made of Ash with a natural finish, white pickguard, and rich rosewood fretboard. It weighed a ton (definitely not Swamp Ash), but I thought it was the most beautiful guitar I'd ever seen in my life. It had that golden tan tint to it, and remember thinking if I ever got a Strat, I'd want it to look like that (though I didn't know what kind of wood it was at the time).

Now I'm thinking I better hurry up and get one before they don't exist anymore, and everyone starts demanding premium used prices for an Ash body guitar..

That one have looks nuts!

For sure, also always loved those ash bodied Blade guitars but people have woken up to how good they are so you can't really find one too far under $1K these days.

The particular Warmoth I posted is one of my favorite guitars ever...the body is actually chambered, and the guitar is crazy resonant. This was yet another insane GC score, I have no clue why anyone would give this up to GC for next to nothing but I'm sure glad he did . Front here:

That's weird.
I just (by accident) ordered a Harley Benton strat made of American swamp ash. How can they but Fender won't. Makes no sense to me man.

Mossman wrote: ↑Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:09 pm

slowhand84 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:35 pm Ash really is a wonderful wood, especially for strats.

Yeah, even before I played guitar, I always loved the look of a natural Ash Strat. When I was a sophmore in high school, I formed my first band. I played bass and my best friend at the time played guitar, and he had a Kappa "Wildcat" (Strat copy) made of Ash with a natural finish, white pickguard, and rich rosewood fretboard. It weighed a ton (definitely not Swamp Ash), but I thought it was the most beautiful guitar I'd ever seen in my life. It had that golden tan tint to it, and remember thinking if I ever got a Strat, I'd want it to look like that (though I didn't know what kind of wood it was at the time).

Now I'm thinking I better hurry up and get one before they don't exist anymore, and everyone starts demanding premium used prices for an Ash body guitar..

That one have looks nuts!

Yup. I love the natural ash strat. I have no idea why. I don't remember seeing anyone playing it just the first time I saw one I loved it. Probably it was an ibanez roadstar hanging up at American Dream Music. Always been a wood grain fan but an ash strat was an automatic for me. My first was a short scale sx on closeout. I liked it so good I moved up to the sx ltd II. Then finally bought the lightly reliced mjt body for my longtime white usa strat. Just before I stopped playing strats

with all these dead ash trees shouldn't there be a glut for a few years on everything being made of ash? Even with wormholes could be interesting looking

nomadh wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:19 am with all these dead ash trees shouldn't there be a glut for a few years on everything being made of ash? Even with wormholes could be interesting looking

I don't think it's a matter of worm holes. The whole tree dies and starts to decompose. If you've ever seen a dead standing tree, you wouldn't want to make anything but firewood out of it.

Doesn't matter to me, really. I understand the point that ash has a nice appearance. But I see guitars made out of lots of materials, Lucite, basswood, Asian mahogany, pine.

I was thinking about this thread the other day and it dawned on me: you can kish yer ash goodbye

I think it is more of a marketing ploy.

A couple years ago the discussion was all about rosewood. Today I got an email from the stratosphere saying they had Fender all rosewood necks. Go figure.

They are kinda spendy:
https://stratosphereparts.com/new-fende ... c921ca0928

I recall Gibson being raided by federales over "endangered" wood. About a decade ago. And I also recall how Maker's Mark distillery announced they would lower their abv down from 90-proof to 86-proof, but then changed their mind... it was a marketing ploy.

i wonder if g&l will keep using swamp ash since they have such lower volume.

she's heavy but may be my prettiest.

Ash in general is simply less available due to the ash borer. Fender was very selective with the ash they used, sticking only to a very limited supply of light weight “swamp” ash with large grain. They still have enough for the custom shop and runs of reissue type models, but won’t be using it on the main production runs. In other words, if you want an ash Fender, you will be able to get one, but expect to pay a premium over alder now.

Other companies can continue using it because they are either much lower volume, or they are far less selective in what ash they will use. If a couple of extra pounds doesn’t bother you, there are plenty of options that will be much cheaper than Fender.