I didn't care for it much....you may!
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:17 pm
Seemed to be just running scales up and down the fret board. No feeling....nada.
Special doesn't equal talent in my book. The fastest car doesn't always win the race.
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I didn't care for it much....you may!
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Seemed to be just running scales up and down the fret board. No feeling....nada.
Special doesn't equal talent in my book. The fastest car doesn't always win the race.
Re: I didn't care for it much....you may!
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:55 pm
Okay...watched the whole thing. Impressive technical skills, but, like you mentioned...no 'soul' or 'feel'. Most of it seemed off-kilter...maybe it's supposed to be freeform jazz?
Re: I didn't care for it much....you may!
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:17 pm
I guess these are Jazz 'Shredders' ?
I liked it...but it's the kind of stuff you put on when you're installing a storm door or drilling holes in your walls...just background but not to listen to as the subject of interest
I liked it...but it's the kind of stuff you put on when you're installing a storm door or drilling holes in your walls...just background but not to listen to as the subject of interest
Re: I didn't care for it much....you may!
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:20 pm
Speed kills "feel".
Re: I didn't care for it much....you may!
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:53 pm
There were a couple guys I really liked there. The Asian guy playing the Epiphone (Mateus) had a very unique vibrato and phrasing. The guy with the long silver hair playing the Gibson Les Paul (Allen) was also captivating. They both had good tone too. Most of the others were on the annoying side. Just my opinion.
Re: I didn't care for it much....you may!
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:35 pm
Mostly noise.
Re: I didn't care for it much....you may!
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:00 pm
Those were the 2 standouts. I found I kept waiting for the tobacco hollowbody.. others had some nice bits but I agree.toomanycats wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:53 pm There were a couple guys I really liked there. The Asian guy playing the Epiphone (Mateus) had a very unique vibrato and phrasing. The guy with the long silver hair playing the Gibson Les Paul (Allen) was also captivating. They both had good tone too. Most of the others were on the annoying side. Just my opinion.
Re: I didn't care for it much....you may!
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:13 pm
Only the older guy with the Les Paul did anything for me.
Re: I didn't care for it much....you may!
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:39 am
Meh … back in the day it would have been impressive, but fusion doesn't seem to have worn that well, I'm afraid. Mind you, they didn't have much of a harmonic background to work off, did they? Although, on reflection, Jean Luc Ponty seemed to manage it …
I agree that the LP dude was the most musical, allowing breathing space and tonal variation. Just goes to prove, "Old age and treachery win out over youth and skill …"—I can say that 'cos I just turned 78 yesterday, and I'd take them on …
I agree that the LP dude was the most musical, allowing breathing space and tonal variation. Just goes to prove, "Old age and treachery win out over youth and skill …"—I can say that 'cos I just turned 78 yesterday, and I'd take them on …
Re: I didn't care for it much....you may!
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:42 am
Oh, and the twin neck (Chapman stick?) made a welcome change of pace, and the drummer was interesting …
Re: I didn't care for it much....you may!
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:16 am
Re: I didn't care for it much....you may!
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:20 am
I'm not sure what you guys were all listening to. I think it's awesome. Love the playing. Extremely musical to my ears. And I don't know why you guys think they were playing so fast. 80% of the time they were playing at about a quarter of the speed of players like John McLaughlin and Al Dimeola.
Y'all be trippin'. Or listening to some SLOW ASS guitar players.
Great players have been playing fast since Django Reinhardt in the 1930s.
Charlie Parker played at blazing speed.
As did most bebop players. Listen to this, then go back and listen to those guitar players. They'll sound like they're in molasses.
Y'all be trippin'. Or listening to some SLOW ASS guitar players.
Great players have been playing fast since Django Reinhardt in the 1930s.
Charlie Parker played at blazing speed.
As did most bebop players. Listen to this, then go back and listen to those guitar players. They'll sound like they're in molasses.
Re: I didn't care for it much....you may!
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:30 pm
I guess what I was trying to say is that when it comes to fusion jazz, the lightning fast style in the video seems to me to have painted itself into a corner somewhat. If one thinks outside that box, then what people like Scofield and Metheny et al are doing is more to my taste, even though in truth I've never been a big Metheny fan.
The speed thing is still an issue, if all you're doing is playing scales and licks, something that Bird went way beyond.
Leonardo Amuedo, for instance has monstrous technique, but it's always at the service of musicality, and as such he and people like Sco are instantly recognizable, whereas these guys with the noted exceptions could easily be mistaken for each other. Superb technique, but I don't hear their individual "voices" as much.
But then again, "it's all in the ear of the behearer …"
No hard feelings, I hope, just expressing my personal taste …
The speed thing is still an issue, if all you're doing is playing scales and licks, something that Bird went way beyond.
Leonardo Amuedo, for instance has monstrous technique, but it's always at the service of musicality, and as such he and people like Sco are instantly recognizable, whereas these guys with the noted exceptions could easily be mistaken for each other. Superb technique, but I don't hear their individual "voices" as much.
But then again, "it's all in the ear of the behearer …"
No hard feelings, I hope, just expressing my personal taste …
Re: I didn't care for it much....you may!
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:35 pm
Nothing I would pay money to hear.
Re: I didn't care for it much....you may!
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:04 pm
Oh, and I meant to mention Guthrie Govan—technique, speed, taste, phrasing, and above all humor!!
Re: I didn't care for it much....you may!
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:07 pm
Guthrie Govan is one hell of a guitarist
Re: I didn't care for it much....you may!
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:47 pm
I really enjoyed it. I suppose emotion is where you find it. And for the record very little of these leads were speed based. Anyone who thinks this stuff was about speed should just listen to Buckethead, Paul Gilbert, Malmsteen, Joe Stump, and even our own Narsh. The man can BURN. But he plays nicely slowed down as well.
The OP's clip was melodic jazz/fusion with melodic lead work featuring a few moderately fast passages.
Fully agree with the praise of Guthrie Govan. Shawn Lane was amazing as well. He died too young.
The OP's clip was melodic jazz/fusion with melodic lead work featuring a few moderately fast passages.
Fully agree with the praise of Guthrie Govan. Shawn Lane was amazing as well. He died too young.
Re: I didn't care for it much....you may!
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:52 pm
Exactly. These guys were not playing all that fast most of the time. Not sure what people are hearing.fullonshred wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:47 pm I really enjoyed it. I suppose emotion is where you find it. And for the record very little of these leads were speed based. Anyone who thinks this stuff was about speed should just listen to Buckethead, Paul Gilbert, Malmsteen, Joe Stump, and even out own Narsh. This was melodic jazz/fusion with melodic lead work featuring a few moderately fast passages.
Fully agree with the praise of Guthrie Govan. Shawn Lane was amazing as well. He died too young.
Re: I didn't care for it much....you may!
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:54 pm
Again, you are confusing your opinion with facts.t100d wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:30 pm I guess what I was trying to say is that when it comes to fusion jazz, the lightning fast style in the video seems to me to have painted itself into a corner somewhat. If one thinks outside that box, then what people like Scofield and Metheny et al are doing is more to my taste, even though in truth I've never been a big Metheny fan.
The speed thing is still an issue, if all you're doing is playing scales and licks, something that Bird went way beyond.
Leonardo Amuedo, for instance has monstrous technique, but it's always at the service of musicality, and as such he and people like Sco are instantly recognizable, whereas these guys with the noted exceptions could easily be mistaken for each other. Superb technique, but I don't hear their individual "voices" as much.
But then again, "it's all in the ear of the behearer …"
No hard feelings, I hope, just expressing my personal taste …
You remind me of this guy:
Re: I didn't care for it much....you may!
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:21 pm
Here is a piece by David T Chastain called 18th Century Inamorata. There are some scary fast passages in here, and for me it is a HIGHLY emotional listening experience. Another by Brett Garsed named Breathe is at a slower pace, still all instrumental, and exceptionally moving to me. I don't need lyrics to cue my emotional response, and often find lame lyrics bring a song down rather than improve it. Great lyrics/voices are wonderful for sure.
Ronnie Montrose - The Speed of Sound and many of Vinnie Moore's instrumetal guitar albums are filled with lyrics free music containing very speedy passages - many of which are packed with emotional content for me.
David T. Chastain - 18th Century Inamorata
Brett Garsed - Breathe
Ronnie Montrose - The Speed of Sound
Ronnie Montrose - The Speed of Sound and many of Vinnie Moore's instrumetal guitar albums are filled with lyrics free music containing very speedy passages - many of which are packed with emotional content for me.
David T. Chastain - 18th Century Inamorata
Brett Garsed - Breathe
Ronnie Montrose - The Speed of Sound
Re: I didn't care for it much....you may!
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:27 pm
Jan Akkerman: Hocus Pocus : one the original shredders circa 1973
Re: I didn't care for it much....you may!
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:38 pm
Ok my 2cents.
I read some opinions and was really listening to what was said. Then I looked at the vid and have to say.... there was some great playing in that vid. At least it's not heavy death metal. In my opinion that is noise. But all that being said there is some great playing going on. I grew up on Zeppilin and some of Page's leads are fast...But then came Lifeson and we changed our opinion about what is better. Then we heard Dimiola and that threw our views out the window. Ok so now you got a ton of speed guitarists and it seems to me that most are doing the same riffs and techniques and it's gotten boring. But I have to say thanks to toneray for focus
That was one of my favorite songs in the late 70s when I first heard it. But for me I liked it.
I read some opinions and was really listening to what was said. Then I looked at the vid and have to say.... there was some great playing in that vid. At least it's not heavy death metal. In my opinion that is noise. But all that being said there is some great playing going on. I grew up on Zeppilin and some of Page's leads are fast...But then came Lifeson and we changed our opinion about what is better. Then we heard Dimiola and that threw our views out the window. Ok so now you got a ton of speed guitarists and it seems to me that most are doing the same riffs and techniques and it's gotten boring. But I have to say thanks to toneray for focus
That was one of my favorite songs in the late 70s when I first heard it. But for me I liked it.