A Guitar And Gear Support Forum

There's a piece of recording gear I've been watching the market on all year. I don't need it, but it would be a nice convenience, so discretionary. I have a price set in my mind that I'd buy it if I saw it, about 17% lower than its current street price. It's $600 MAP and I'd buy one for $500.

Yesterday I saw a store advertise one returned with a blemish for $499. They didn't say what the blemish is, and maybe they're not up-front about why it was returned. If it is just a scratch, I wouldn't care, but I have no way of knowing and B-stock sales at that store are final. So I didn't buy. But I did screen-shot the deal, and emailed my Sweetwater rep to ask if they could match that price with a new-in-box one. I figured 17% is well within Sweetwater's margin.

His first response was "No, there's no room below $600, that's Sweetwater's black friday price". Now it begins, because I am averse to BS sales dances and I know that was a bold lie. I tell him $600 is the price virtually everywhere and has been for months, so that's no sale price, and BTW, I don't like being BS'd.

He comes back with "I could go $535 and I don't BS, and MAP is about $700". Now I'm conflicted, because I might well have bought it for $535 if that had been his first response. But instead his first response was trying a lie out on me. And this response was another lie because MAP means Minimum Advertised Price. If MAP was $700, stores everywhere couldn't advertise it for $600, and that's where it is priced everywhere. So no, instead I point out the further lie and ask if he knows what MAP means.

He then tried smoothing buddy language on his 3rd response without admitting any of his mail-folder-archived dishonesty, so I asked for a different sales rep. If Sweetwater wants to convince me they assign reps to know their customers, they're going to have to follow through on that. Give me one who knows I hate being lied to and knows I know a 17% discount won't hurt them in the slightest.

Good luck with that.

Chocol8 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 12:47 pm Good luck with that.

It was better with other reps, it might be better with a new one.

BatUtilityBelt wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 12:04 pm There's a piece of recording gear I've been watching the market on all year. I don't need it, but it would be a nice convenience, so discretionary. I have a price set in my mind that I'd buy it if I saw it, about 17% lower than its current street price. It's $600 MAP and I'd buy one for $500.

Yesterday I saw a store advertise one returned with a blemish for $499. They didn't say what the blemish is, and maybe they're not up-front about why it was returned. If it is just a scratch, I wouldn't care, but I have no way of knowing and B-stock sales at that store are final. So I didn't buy. But I did screen-shot the deal, and emailed my Sweetwater rep to ask if they could match that price with a new-in-box one. I figured 17% is well within Sweetwater's margin.

His first response was "No, there's no room below $600, that's Sweetwater's black friday price". Now it begins, because I am averse to BS sales dances and I know that was a bold lie. I tell him $600 is the price virtually everywhere and has been for months, so that's no sale price, and BTW, I don't like being BS'd.

He comes back with "I could go $535 and I don't BS, and MAP is about $800". Now I'm conflicted, because I might well have bought it for $535 if that had been his first response. But instead his first response was trying a lie out on me. And this response was another lie because MAP means Minimum Advertised Price. If MAP was $800, stores everywhere couldn't advertise it for $600, and that's where it is priced everywhere. So no, instead I point out the further lie and ask if he knows what MAP means.

He then tried smoothing buddy language on his 3rd response without admitting any of his mail-folder-archived dishonesty, so I asked for a different sales rep. If Sweetwater wants to convince me they assign reps to know their customers, they're going to have to follow through on that. Give me one who knows I hate being lied to and knows I know a 17% discount won't hurt them in the slightest.

So, no more candies from him LOL - I´ve heard and read somewhere that your rep, or sweetwater, sends candies with your goods -.



PS: This intends to be a funny comment

sabasgr68 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 1:26 pm So, no more candies from him LOL - I´ve heard and read somewhere that your rep, or sweetwater, sends candies with your goods -.



PS: This intends to be a funny comment

Haha, exactly. Sweetwater tries to represent themselves as customer-centric, and sometimes they actually deliver on that too. But really, they're about presenting that image and not even ever running real sales. The candies are a good gimmick, and you're right. But I do enough with other retailers that I don't care whether Sweetwater is one of my vendors or not. I also found it funny that it was like a break-up, but I've read other people having similar break-ups with their reps. So it's funny and something that Sweetwater internal policies probably cause.

Yeah. The fine art of selling, and keeping customers happy and satisified, it´s really an art, it´s a skill that has to be very well managed and applied. There´s everything under the sun in that regard.

When I deal with my Sweetwater rep, I just identify the item I am interested in and ask for the best price. When I get the response I either purchase or I don't. They know that and so they should know to give me their best price first because there is only the one opportunity. The only exception is if I do find the item less than their quote then I will inform them because they will match.

@tonebender My new Sweetwater rep told me they don't price match. But following up, because I think I am seeing indications of something more driven by corporate policy than bad salesman...

Back during the holiday sales, I thought I saw Sweetwater calling regularly priced items "sale priced", and yeah, we know that goes on. But we were told by Sweetwater "just reach out to your sales engineer and they'll take care of you". That didn't happen when I tried it.

So today, I got their regularly scheduled sales email labeled "This Week's Top Deals at Sweetwater!". I always look, but don't usually buy. This time though, the first item was a power conditioner, supposedly $30 off for $90. I do have a rack that could use one. It seemed like a typical price to me though, and no, it wasn't the nicer one with the light bar and voltage readout, it's the basic one. So I wondered if prices had just gone up that much since the last time I bought one, and I googled that model. It turns out other stores are selling it for $20 - $30 less, even those with free shipping. So Sweetwater's $30 off top weekly deal is no deal at all. I ordered one from AMS for $59.99 to be done with it. But it makes me wonder whether my recent bad sales engineer experience was driven by some new Sweetwater price gouging policy. Do they think they're an unbeatable 800 pound gorilla now and own the US market? I agree they have the size, but they're doing nothing for customer loyalty. I've dealt with AMS and Full Compass and a few others longer than Sweetwater, and those other stores are not trying to make me beg for their best pricing.

That scenario has not been my experience at all with Sweetwater. Did you actually show them the lower price and ask for a match? I think Guitar Center and Sweetwater are owned by the same entity. Any time I have been in Guitar Center and a price is higher than I can find it someone else, I just pull it up on my phone and they summarily match.

I do know that in the past suppliers of products have a suggested retail price. A lot of retail outlets set the price below that so they can say it is x% off or "on sale". I assume the SRP is probably set to allow them to do this marketing technique. It's all smoke and mirrors but there are deals on special days like Black Friday or when an item needs to be blown out to make room for the new model, etc. Congrats on the new power conditioner.

tonebender wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 7:36 pm That scenario has not been my experience at all with Sweetwater. Did you actually show them the lower price and ask for a match?

Yeah, I screenshot it and gave him a link. Here's a copy/paste from an email response he sent me later.
"Unfortunately, we don’t price match at Sweetwater. This is mostly because of the things that we offer as a standard are not offered through our competitors.

I can play with the pricing a bit, but I’m not able to get it down to that price. However, when you buy from Sweetwater, you’re going to get a free 2-year warranty to back the product, free shipping, and an expert support team ready to assist for the life of the system."

tonebender wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 7:36 pm I think Guitar Center and Sweetwater are owned by the same entity. Any time I have been in Guitar Center and a price is higher than I can find it someone else, I just pull it up on my phone and they summarily match.

I do know that in the past suppliers of products have a suggested retail price. A lot of retail outlets set the price below that so they can say it is x% off or "on sale". I assume the SRP is probably set to allow them to do this marketing technique. It's all smoke and mirrors but there are deals on special days like Black Friday or when an item needs to be blown out to make room for the new model, etc. Congrats on the new power conditioner.

It could be they're owned by the same entity, I have no idea. I know GC and MF are the same company. Normally, if it's somewhat expensive, I'll shop around a bit and Sweetwater rarely has the best prices. In the power conditioner case, I only googled out of curiosity, but saving 33%, I'm glad I did. And yet, I see people getting killer deals there on PRS SEs, so I know they're not a lost cause. I just have to watch them at every turn I guess.

You are right it is MF and GC. I misremembered it due to the pre-game beverages. I have purchased from all of the above but I just feel more comfortable with Sweetwater. If I were to see a better price I would definitely give them a chance to match and if they could not then I would not hesitate to purchase elsewhere.

Yeah, the problem isn't with the sales engineers, it's Sweetwater. I'll explain, but warning - this could go really long. The TL;DR would be: "I just need them to sell good gear at competitive prices, nothing else".

I'm getting older, and so is Sweetwater. When we met, they were the Kurzweil specialists, and there was no internet (that they knew of). In the daytime, I was a software/firmware engineer working on DarpaNET, which would later be copied and trimmed down and eventually be called the internet. At night, like many of us, I had a music career. I hoped the music would take over someday. Spoiler: it did not. But tons of people I've worked with have had similar dual careers.

In those days, my impression was that Chuck Surack was not afraid to pick up a soldering iron. He certainly was not afraid of reading specs or talking about them. And I think he hired like-minded people. Back then, they could talk tech pretty well. Still, every time I sent a piece of gear to them for service, they were just a go-between for the manufacturer. I think a ROM change was the only exception to that, they might have done that themselves at times. Anyway, I think their type of support in the early days probably qualified for their terminology of "sales engineers". They had specializations, and better product knowledge than say, AMS, Full Compass, West LA Music, and the like. And they tried to be price-competitive. So I did buy some pretty expensive gear from them, but not exclusively.

Fast forward way too many years, and what I'm seeing is Sweetwater changing their attitude about pricing, price-matching, and what they call support. They no longer know the gear like they used to, as they no longer specialize. But they kept the term "Sales Engineer" and it seems they expect their staff to live up to that. They can't. What results is gear sales people trying to BS their product knowledge and use that as a basis for higher prices than everyone else (at least in many cases). The last 3 times I've tried to get good prices out of them, they've failed and only given BS justifications:

"We offer a 2 year warranty". Sorry, I've never seen a store warranty provide any value. Just never. Good gear won't break in 2 years and we all know that.

"We provide lifetime support". Today I tested that with a question to my salesman. What I got back was his best google hits, nothing from his understanding. I easily recognized that, because my tech career did better than my music career and I've actually had to tell real engineers to stop trying to substitute google for their engineering skills. So when a salesman does that, it's more obvious than when an actual engineer tries it.

The thing is this - We're in the information age and they sell tools. All I need from them is competitive pricing. Their support amounts to weak google skills. When I tested that, he suggested a $175 Amazon.com solution when a $30 solution would be just as good. His answer was based on matching buzzwords.

So yeah, Sweetwater isn't even doing as much to satisfy customers as Thomann these days. I'd probably like Thomann if I was in Europe, so maybe one of these box stores in the USA should try to be the American Thomann.

I prefer Zzounds, I’ve had good experiences with sweetwater and everything. It’s just the few times I’ve talked to a rep, it’s been like talking to a starving hyena while holding a piece of meat.

And zzounds will price match without all of the theatrics and they’ve always taken decent care of me as a customer.

If I’m shopping around I usually go Zzounds > Sweetwater > AMS > Direct (if possible) > Give up and move on.