A Guitar And Gear Support Forum

Hey All-

As if I dont have enough to haul being the drummer.......I've also become the sound guy as well.

I have a Soundcraft MTK12 mixer and (2) JBL EON 712's for the tops.
Recently, I bought (2) JBL JRX 118SP subs. They are underwhelming to say the least.

My question related to those performing out and what experience ya'll have with equipment needs.

Do any of you use subs? What size, brand...
Does your drummer mic the entire kit or just the bass drum?

Do you mic your guitar cabs?
What mics do you use? The vocals and bass player do not use Shure SM58s and I think this has been a problem.

Thanx in advance
thePEZident

First let me preface with it takes a long time to learn the science and art of running sound for a band. The most important thing is the PA matching the venue. One size does not fit all. I have owned and operated a lot of PA gear. I would actually say my running sound skills are probably better than my musician skills. That said, I am an analog only. I have never owned or operated anything digital. I have played where they were using digital equipment and it seemed fine, I just never did it.

The best set up I ever had that worked for small clubs/rooms and even pretty large outdoor gigs was EV 12" powered subs (SB122 I think) that were bi-amped with a built in crossover. They would power the EV 12" passive tops and there were absolutely the best bar band set up ever IMHO. I used a Carvin 12 channel powered head that had 4 aux sends and four amps that you could assign to the aux sends for monitors. The subs powered the mains and the board powered the monitors. Easy set up and worked like a charm. There are lots of options available today. I was just looking at powered set up made by Alto. Nice little 12" subs with plenty of punch for most gigs. Paired with their 12" powered tops or even 10" tops would would work nicely. Behringer makes a nice 12" powered sub as well. You would be surprised how 12" subs get the job done for most bar/club gig venues.

Some rooms required no mic'ing of any instruments, just vocals. Some gigs I would mic up the kick only. Some gigs I would use a pencil overhead or two for the rest of the drums. Only pretty large venues or large outdoor gigs would I mic an entire drum kit. Same approach for guitar and bass rigs too. It all depended on the size of the venue.

Currently the band I play with is pretty stripped down. I do not have PA responsibilities other than I bring a powered monitor for myself. The drummer runs the sound and does a good job. For the not so loud venues we used one Bose rig with the stick top and powered sub which is placed behind us. There are times depending on placement I do not even need a monitor because I hear the main so well. If we need more horsepower he uses two of the Bose rigs. They sound pretty good. Most of the time the bass player just runs through some sort of module or preamp into the PA. The drummer uses a cocktail kit with the kick on the bottom and snare on the top of the same drum. He mics the kick only. When he brings a regular kit to a large venue he will mic the kit.

Nothing worse than a band with a crappy PA set up. I saw a band about a month ago that were very talented but the vocals were buried. I wanted to twist knobs so bad I could not enjoy the band. I wish you luck and always go with the "less is more" theme.

I used a Shure Beta 57 or 59 mostly for vocals and Sennheiser 609e mics for guitar amps. Most of the time I would direct out the bass amp or on a rare occasion I would use a mic on the cabinet. I had a nice drum mic kit when mic'ing all drums was necessary. I sold all of my PA and now only have some powered Alto's for the acoustic show and for my monitor with the band. I picked up the same Carvin head I had before but the unpowered version since I use all powered speakers for mains and monitors these days for the acoustic show. I think it would work very well for the band too but I have not been asked to do PA duties. These days I use a Heil PR 20 or a Shure Beta 57 for vocals. Another great live vocal mic is an EV 767 but I do not think they make them any longer. The Heil I use is discontinued too. Don't go cheap on mics. A Shure Beta or regular 58 will always work nicely and they last forever.

All good points, Jeff.

I think that your way ahead of us. We're on the other end of the spectrum.

Our band plays only a few gigs a year (and small ones at that). When we play "out" (not at the local bar which has a sound guy) we use a Beheringer PA with passive speakers and monitors. All-in-all the set-up has been very serviceable and used exclusively for vocals and acoustic guitar. All amps are on their own. No sub because, well... we don't have a sub. That's what a bass amp is for. Am I right? Guys? Anyone?

crickets

I think that we've done alright by what we have. That, and some understanding of where the vocals and instruments live in the mix, should get youy close.

Oh, I've mic'd a kick through the PA before. 'Won't do that again. That's what a sub is for, I think.

I would like to add that I also had the 16-channel version of the Carvin mixer for when we needed to mic the entire drum kit. My band mate had the 32-channel Carvin mixer we used for festivals and multiple band gigs. Carvin made some great stuff. I guess they still do, not sure if it is still onshore.

I've posted on reddit /r/livesound and got some helpful tips about subs.
Most suggested at least 15"...

But 2 guitarists just played at the college I work at. They were outside..
And they used (2) 12" EV subs and it sounded pretty good.
Subs are soooo damned expensive...

Also...doesnt help that our bass player refuses to go direct into the board AND...if he does...he just overrides the volume so it's really pointless...

Thanks for the replies.
We do have a friend that has some experience...He's able to mix OK and is able to get different monitor levels to us.

I have no doubt there are those that say go 15's over 12's. I had EV 15 passive subs before the 12's. There sounded great but were heavy and bulky. I was skeptical of the SB122 subs knowing there were, first 12's and second, very expensive because of the bi-amps and crossover. I took a chance and sprung for them. When they arrived. I set both the passive 15 tops and bottoms up side by side with the EV 12 bottoms and tops outodoors then AB'ed them at loud volumes. I immediately put the 15's on CL and sold them. The market has only produced even better stuff since. You will not save a ton of money going with powered 12" subs over 15's but you will save yourself some room and back strain. I think either the Alto 12's or the Behringer 12's would do nicely. They are affordable too. They cannot keep the Alto 12's in stock at Sweetwater so that tells you something.

Just bought a used Alto 15 sub at GuitarCenter yesterday.

What a trip....
Gentleman behind the counter had long, scraggly hair that hadn't been combed or washed in days...
I asked....Hey...I'd like to check out a used subwoofer please.
Uhhhh....huh?
Can I see a subwoofer?
Uhhh....yeah...like a demo?
Yeah
UhhhhhHow much is it?
Ehhhh its at $539
Uhhh....Can you repeat the question please?
pause....
Yeah...
I'd like to see a used sub that you have for sale.

Then he got as far as making sure it was plugged in to power...
Had to get someone else to hook an XLR up to it..
Me thinks he may have been partying the night before......or maybe that morning before work.....

Anyhow....it blew the older JBL's I bought out of the water...
45 day return policy.
I'm gonna use it at a gig this Saturday and if it's good.
I might return it and buy 2 new ones.