A Guitar And Gear Support Forum

When songs modulate, what do you base that on? A couple of songs that I can think of are Me and Bobby Mcgee and People Get Ready at least in the Jeff Beck and Rod Stewart version. You seem to be able to hear it all the time in music. With the examples that I cite, I think both move one step up and you just repeat the progression in the same key. I only understand music theory at a rudimentary level and was thinking that maybe if a song is going to modulate then it moves a step from the basic key. I guess I think of music theory as guidelines rather than hard rules and I guess am just looking for the basics here. You can read all sorts of things online and then just become more confused. Any insight would be appreciated.

I've always seen it as a pretty cheap device to keep a song from getting too monotonous otherwise. There are a lot of things we can do to make repetitions much more interesting, and I feel this one is just the most pedestrian, and maybe lazy. Maybe I just don't give it enough of a chance, but I tend to not like it.

With Me and Bobby Mcgee, I think that is probably the case. I sort of thought that in the Stewart/Beck song that it was done to maybe accent Stewart's voice? With that said, I think either tune will still sound fine just leaving it in the same key. With some songs, you can get into some hard chords (for me at least) to play with the key change. I think the initial key change often catches my ear a little just because the monotony surprises your brain a little in that oh that was unexpected.

BatUtilityBelt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:25 pm I've always seen it as a pretty cheap device to keep a song from getting too monotonous otherwise. There are a lot of things we can do to make repetitions much more interesting, and I feel this one is just the most pedestrian, and maybe lazy. Maybe I just don't give it enough of a chance, but I tend to not like it.

Different strokes for different folks. I don't mind it at all, but will admit that it works best when it adds to the feeling of the Song, like on Whitney's "I Will Always Love You".

It can be used as a launch for a new feel, uplift, something jumping off the wall.

One use I like is Hendrix's 'Long Hot Summer Night' at 1:50 in.
a few seconds after "and the telephone keeps on screamin' !"

Short answer: Modulation is movement of the tone center, of what pitch is considered the tonic. Movement from the tone that preceded the modulation to the new pitch involves intervalic movement. It could be said that music boils down to intervals, to their artistic effect and the feelings they invoke in the listener.

Modulation is a powerful tool. It's not always used in the sense of, "Okay, we're switching the tonal center NOW." That's when it sounds forced and cheesy to me. As an example, right now I'm listening to Bad English's tune "When I see You Smile." At the end of the song there's a whole step modulation on the chorus from the progression G-D-C to A-E-D. That's a 1,5,4 for those familiar with Nashville numbers. Does it raise the intensity level? Yes. Is it an effective tool in the trickbag of the songwriter? Yes. Is it cheesy? Hell yeah! But what can you expect from Jonathan Caine?

Using modulation like a fader or dimmer switch is much more sophisticated. That's really a jazz thing, though an example of modulation used like that in a rock context would be Hendrix's "Little Wing." You can solo over the song mostly in E pentatonic minor (or G major), though you can also play lead over the song in a different key measure by measure, following the modulation of the underlying chords Em, G, Bm, Am, C, F, and D. There's a bit of this going in with "Freebird" too.

Sometimes you'll hear a modulation in the last verse or a repeated verse of a song, which gives the song a "bringing this thing home" feel, and also builds emotional excitement where there might not be any otherwise. They also seem popular in 'story songs'--like "Me And Bobby McGee", or "Surrender" by Cheap Trick. Note that the modulation usually happens during the last-ish verse to "bring the song home".

Good discussion and you all seem to be touching on some common themes. I readily admit that jazz is way over my head.

Stoli wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:57 pm Good discussion and you all seem to be touching on some common themes. I readily admit that jazz is way over my head.

Jazz isnt dead, it just smells funny. - F Zappa