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Last week I randomly decided to check my LinkedIn and saw my old boss had reached out to me about a month ago. He had come back to the company I left a little over a year ago in the corporate office.

I am very happy in my new role and I am making pretty good headway on changing the culture at my current place. Hiring a few people I have worked that left in the bedlam that followed the change in leadership that coincided with my departure.

Out of respect, I agreed to meet for lunch to catch up and he laid out some pretty impressive plans for the company over then next few years that would be a tectonic shift and would right most of the ills I experienced before I left, but wanted me to talk to the new GM of the plant before we move any further.

I spent a bit over an hour talking to the new GM. I am a bit surprised how bad the leadership had failed prior to this new GM starting a couple weeks ago. The new GM seems like a good guy, has a lot to learn about the business, but seems to have very good head on his shoulders and has the right ideas on how to right the ship.

I am torn if I want to take a risk and go back to my old place where it sounds like they really need a culture reset (thats where I would come in). The long term business outlook is better (especially with my old boss in an influential corporate position to provide a much better mentor than the leadership in my current role has provided me).

Or...

Do I stick with my new place where I have basically a blank canvas to work with and a lot of low hanging fruit, but there is always a risk the private equity Co holding the purse strings decides that moving the operation to Mexico makes better dollars and sense so I don't know where the business may be in 2-3 years based on the conversation I had when I agreed to the promotion, but they did say I was identified as a key individual that the business wanted long term even if it isn't in the plant I currently run.

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That's the good kind of problem - not needing to make a jump, but having a choice between two potentially good options. Unfortunately, nothing is a sure thing, even when it feels like it is. I can't offer any better advice than to know all you can about both, and trust your instincts over others' projections. Maybe just think long-term if you can see that far.

Remember that great Boston song..."Don't Look Back"?

Stay put and let the old workplace iron itself out. Then revisit the opportunity if it is still available.

Note: I am the worst business person in the world. Don't take advice from me.

tlarson58 wrote:Stay put and let the old workplace iron itself out. Then revisit the opportunity if it is still available.

Note: I am the worst business person in the world. Don't take advice from me.

I'm am apt to lean that way, I actually told my wife just that as I left my old plant.

I have a pretty good setup going and have stolen quite a few people from there via my new HR lady (whom I rescued from there a couple months ago). I'd be much more apt to go back if I knew more of the old team. Unfortunately the GM that chased off many of the folks I worked with and has since departed and really the only folks I know anymore are far and few between and probably only stayed due to no other prospects...

I also can't jump ship any sooner than probably the end of September so they might not be able to wait for me, even if I am the "perfect candidate".

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The key question for me would be whether most of the problems primarily originated from the old GM, or whether they are of a higher level and scope, in which case they will eventually overcome the new guy too. Were there big leadership changes *above* the GM, or did they just luck into getting someone good as a replacement? I'm always very suspicious of claims of management enlightenment. Even in cases of housecleaning I suspect corrupting influences to have persisted.

Houblues wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 11:49 pm The key question for me would be whether most of the problems primarily originated from the old GM, or whether they are of a higher level and scope, in which case they will eventually overcome the new guy too. Were there big leadership changes *above* the GM, or did they just luck into getting someone good as a replacement? I'm always very suspicious of claims of management enlightenment. Even in cases of housecleaning I suspect corrupting influences to have persisted.

I'd say there was always an underlying set of issues that previous GMs could handle due to the strength of the leadership team. Strong leadership overcame the shortcomings of the business.

The people they had chosen to fill the various leadership roles that had been filled in the 3-6 months prior to my leaving were ill suited (partly why I left in the first place). There was a revolving door in the operations leadership at corporate in the last couple years I worked there, but it seems to be stabilizing and I had good working relationships with those people now at the helm, but that was like a month ago...

They have the makings of a strong plan in place to fix the background/equipment type issues, but they need some people that actually know the business and what drove success in previous iterations of leadership of the business. What drives profitability of the business is the same as when I was there, and the depth of my knowledge of the business would make it easy to fix the technical issues if they have the right people in place.

Therein lies the problem...soft issues/people related stuff that is not what I have the strong track record with. My management style works at my current place because the previous leadership was not great at looking at things from the perspective of the people actually getting the job done day to day. I lived that for most of my teens and 20s. I didn't become an engineer until my 30s. I've raised the morale while also showing how to pick all the low hanging fruit. I wouldn't have as much of that if I moved back, it would be more difficult I think to fix a mature business like that vs. a relatively immature one like I am involved in currently.

For the sake of my learning, professional development, the current role probably is the best place for me, but for the sake of my long term involvement in the industry I am in, the new role at my old company probably offers a better outlook.

At the end of the day, based on what they used to pay me vs. what I make now, I am not sure if they will be able to put up a number that would make me risk the move back. If I am as necessary to the plans of my old boss, then maybe they will try. I would think my current boss might try a little harder to keep me than the folks who let me walk out the door a year ago only to ask me back when it all fell apart instead of looking at me for this very same type of position when I would have been a lot cheaper as I did not know my value within the industry like I do now...

My HR lady just asked "what did you do?" She got like 15 texts from people asking if I was coming back to my old company...

Bad gas travels fast in a small town



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Culture is by far the hardest thing to change in an organization, so while they may be able to offer you more money and a higher position, it's highly probable that many ( of not all) of the cultural issues will remain and resurface after the honeymoon is over.

This statement you made to me is very telling: "For the sake of my learning, professional development, the current role probably is the best place for me, but for the sake of my long term involvement in the industry I am in, the new role at my old company probably offers a better outlook"

What we define as "long term" today is far different than it was even 5 years ago. There's no guarantee that any company will even exist in their current state 5 years from now - mergers, acquisitions, bad business decisions, you name it and it's possible. I have been through 3 different jobs in 2 industries since getting laid off from a 20+ year career at the state university system 2 years ago, and I would have never, ever thought that was possible.

Lastly on leverage - you have a window right now to take advantage of your situation. You can be assured that a business will protect it's own financial interests first, before an individual employees, in most circumstances. Whether that's bad or good, it's the way businesses survive. While some may not find it ethical to take advantage of your leverage, you certainly have the opportunity to ask for more money - and potentially a LOT more money. I always had personal reservations about doing such things, but after all i've been through I've learned that you need to "get yours" while the getting is good.

So I guess I didn't answer your question at all most likely but thanks for the opportunity to ramble.

uwmcscott wrote:Culture is by far the hardest thing to change in an organization, so while they may be able to offer you more money and a higher position, it's highly probable that many ( of not all) of the cultural issues will remain and resurface after the honeymoon is over.

This statement you made to me is very telling: "For the sake of my learning, professional development, the current role probably is the best place for me, but for the sake of my long term involvement in the industry I am in, the new role at my old company probably offers a better outlook"

What we define as "long term" today is far different than it was even 5 years ago. There's no guarantee that any company will even exist in their current state 5 years from now - mergers, acquisitions, bad business decisions, you name it and it's possible. I have been through 3 different jobs in 2 industries since getting laid off from a 20+ year career at the state university system 2 years ago, and I would have never, ever thought that was possible.

Lastly on leverage - you have a window right now to take advantage of your situation. You can be assured that a business will protect it's own financial interests first, before an individual employees, in most circumstances. Whether that's bad or good, it's the way businesses survive. While some may not find it ethical to take advantage of your leverage, you certainly have the opportunity to ask for more money - and potentially a LOT more money. I always had personal reservations about doing such things, but after all i've been through I've learned that you need to "get yours" while the getting is good.

So I guess I didn't answer your question at all most likely but thanks for the opportunity to ramble.

Your POV is very much appreciated and you raise some very key points. Some which I spoke with my old boss again about today as I had the same types of concerns (which was partially why I left when they hired the now departed GM).

I would basically be in charge of helping restablish the culture and right the ship, act as an SME much like my old boss was when he inhabited this similar role. 1st step would be bringing back some of the basic things that were ruined by the recently departed GM (and some other ill chosen pieces of the leadership team no longer there).

On the flip side, I've spent the last 8 months establishing a culture in my current role (after getting the benefit of seeing the broken culture as just one of the guys for about 8 months before that). It is very satisfying when I walk my production floor how much more teamwork and pride everyone has vs. the situation I stepped into. It is also funny how I proved one of my bosses at the current company wrong. He said they would chew me up and spit me out on my production floor (because I am white and don't speak Spanish). Probably because I am a wallflower/introvert until I get comfortable with people, then I dominate the meeting/discussion/etc. I hate to lose or be wrong and will go to crazy lengths to prove someone wrong if they challenge me.

The only reason I am listening/considering at all is that I really trust my old boss, something I do not fully have for the upper management of my current company since they were bought out by a private equity firm. My immediate manager I do trust, but I see bits and pieces that just give me an uneasy feeling at times. The curse of an analytical mind and a love of a good investigation/conspiracy.

I will see what sort of offer they put together. I finally know my worth and know that I am a bit of a unicorn...I expect to get a counter from my current boss, but I need to know what comes next for me and where? Half a year ago it seemed as if the only possible endgame was the plant moving to Mexico. I think I have made that decision a lot more difficult, but not impossible.


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Tomorrow I plan to give my notice... The opportunity and learning experience potential of this new role is too good to pass up.

I really enjoy the people I work with, but there are things I want/need to learn that I will never have that opportunity if I stay where I am.

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Congrats and best of luck on the new gig

Congrats! Keep us updated

Congrats and good luck with the new gig!!

Congrats and good luck.

Good luck, Nate, all the best!

Bon Jovi said it

(not of my favorites songs from them, I should say).

My old job asked me to stay 2 extra weeks. I get a nice little retention bonus to stay through the end of September.

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Congrats and...good luck. We're all counting on you.

I was going to say if moving work in good contract guarentee. Something like you can leave whenever but if you stay you get paid for 3 yr even if they fire you. Or a big severance type thing.
Congrats.

Rollin Hand wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 8:54 pm Congrats and...good luck. We're all counting on you.

I saw that movie several, several times when I was young(er). I liked that kind of humor. Also big fan of "The naked gun" with Leslie Nielsen. The first one is the best.

Back in university, the local movie theatre ran Airplane!, Airplane 2, and The Naked Gun as a triple bill. For the rest of the year, we were hammering each other with quotes from those movie.

"It was a big story. Made all the papers. Even made the Canadian Jewish News."

First few days in, it was weird for a day...I had some serious butterflies in the stomach Monday.Then I started getting folks coming to me to ask questions and almost everything just came rushing back. I'm not sure if they were just testing me or what, but I think I passed.

I had to dust off my IT "hat", fixed the wireless bridge between buildings when no one else could figure it out. I joked that they just wanted me back for my alter ego, IT Nate...



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Congrats and wishing you the best in your new role in the old surroundings!

1 month in, I am constantly surprised how badly the fired GM f'd this place up.

The business is so simple and yet he royally screwed up so many things that I am currently un-f'ing up.

Still I am having fun at work again and the days literally fly by. I have yet to be bored once, unlike my old job.

It still feels weird to be the "dad" in the room and the have final say on just about everything.

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I went back to the firm I started with and worked for from 1988 to 1999. Long story short, it is/was a wonderful company but I left for opportunity to advance with a much larger international firm. Eventually my boss at the large firm left and joined the small firm I previously worked for. The Florida manager for the large firm also left and went there as the president of the department. I had loved working for them over the years and the opportunity to continue with them under the flag of the smaller firm was too good to pass up. At the same time it was time for me to semi-retire and take a position of lesser responsibility. It could not have worked out any better in the twilight of my career. I hope it works out for you too!