A Guitar And Gear Support Forum

Posted: **Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:20 pm**

Having had my own business, I know there are many things that make or break it, sometimes seemingly daily. So I'm not about to say Kurt didn't do well, or anything like that. We wouldn't have all these cool guitars if he didn't, and I appreciate all the effort he put in.

Having said that, many of us who tried found him notoriously bad at emailing back, and similar issues. Having bought more than a dozen guitars from him, I find it odd he can't keep me on his mailing list...

Today I signed up for his email list yet one more time, and noticed something really bad about his current process. As soon as I signed up on the Rondo site, I got this email back:

Now I have done a lot in cyber security, and I'd be the first person to rip that email apart as a probable scam.

The sender is not Rondo. There is nothing in the subject or the message body even relating to Rondo. It looks like phishing with a wide net. Everything except the timing of the email told me "don't click that link". If it had not arrived a couple seconds after subscribing, I would not have confirmed the subscription. I know Kurt is trying to sell Rondo, but if you're trying to keep a business going, please pay attention to stuff like that. Everyone is becoming more phishing aware, and needs reassurances they are dealing with the people they think they are!

Posted: **Fri Jul 01, 2022 4:26 pm**

People have been speculating about the demise/sale/future of Rondo ever since i've been part of this group in it's various iterations dating back to 2011 or so. His website has always been behind the times even back then - bad pictures, out of date specs, spotty/cryptic emails, you name it.

Having said that they still have arguably one of the better assortments of value minded guitars out there. And it's probably not a coincidence that he doesn't spend much money on marketing - the items pretty much sell themselves.

Might his business model eventually fizzle out? Most business do if they don't evolve. Having said that, there are still forums dedicated to people buying cheap ( OK value minded ) guitars of all sorts, so my guess is that if the demand stays around he'll keep making them

Posted: **Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:28 pm**

I have essentially felt that Rondo was on a downhill slide since they put those odd number of string monstrosities at a higher priority than 6 string leftys. I expect them to go belly up before I do!

Posted: **Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:39 pm**

mickey wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:28 pm I have essentially felt that Rondo was on a downhill slide since they put those odd number of string monstrosities at a higher priority than 6 string leftys. I expect them to go belly up before I do!

Same. Since it has been documented that Kurt is trying to sell Agile, I really hope someone buys it to at least bring back the heyday, if not more. My original post was also a note that there is a ton (whoever buys it) could do to fairly easily improve its chances.

Posted: **Fri Jul 01, 2022 6:32 pm**

BatUtilityBelt wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:39 pm Same. Since it has been documented that Kurt is trying to sell Agile, I really hope someone buys it to at least bring back the heyday, if not more.

Another important note on that is that Agile is really only a brand name of one of the lines Kurt sells. SX is completely external manufacturer and who knows whether or not Hadean, Douglas, Brice and others are Kurt creations or separate companies.

So in essence, even if someone did buy the Agile brand, Rondo music would likely still exist as-is, and possibly even remain a reseller ( maybe exclusive ) of Agile. And he's been advertising Agile as "for sale" for many years now.

I also think the "heyday" as we knew it is likely a figment of imagination. Supply chain issue will exist for many year, and there are many more players in the game than there were back when Kurt started out. Firefly, Harley Benton, Wolf, IYV, Grote, and a whole host of others understand the game and are also being pretty successful at it.

Posted: **Fri Jul 01, 2022 6:45 pm**

Nah, it's doable (maybe just not this year). A brand like Agile can move its manufacturing around, companies do that all the time. I consider Agile a cut well above those others. I don't own all those brands, but trust a lot of what I have read from owners.

Posted: **Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:21 pm**

I would also consider Agile to be a cut above those others as Kurt has worked hard to keep them manufactured in Korea and he also has a lot of experience dealing with the factories there. That would likely be the biggest challenge for anyone taking over the brand as it takes a long time to establish a relationship/trust when you are having something manufactured in your absence overseas - especially in China.

I still think the glory days of Agile are long gone as a "discount" guitar which is what they originally were. And yes they were a higher quality but now the prices of an AL3200 for example are close to the big name guitars made in the same factories like Shechter, etc. And by that I mean the days when you could buy a Korean made AL-2000 for less than $200 - and in 30 different color options

The market itself has changed too - take Firefly as an example. Yes they are a lower quality tier than Agile, but they are a hell of a lot nicer than the Chinese knockoffs that were coming out even 5 years ago. And the most attractive thing about a Firefly from a business standpoint is that they are cheap enough pricewise that people buy 2/3/4 at a time. Take a gander at their Facebook Fan site - when you have customers that will buy 15 --20 identical $200 les paul copies just to have one in every color, you've got something good going

I do think Kurt will eventually navigate the supply chain waters and get his stock back up a bit, but he also probably realizes that the LP copy business is a smaller niche for him now, and he needs to focus just as much on the multi-string and lower price ( SX) stuff to keep the doors open. It might not be to the AGF faithful's liking, but then again we are likely a small fraction of his total customer base.

Posted: **Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:40 pm**

I set a one year reminder on my Gmail calendar to remind @tobijohn about buying Rondo.
It's in October....

Posted: **Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:57 pm**

thepezident wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:40 pm I set a one year reminder on my Gmail calendar to remind @tobijohn about buying Rondo.
It's in October....

Buying Agile, not Rondo and it looks like I'll need a few more months. First, I've got to get rid of my old bucket of bolts 1996 LT4 coupe and pick up one of the latest generation mid-engine Corvettes

Posted: **Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:00 pm**

thepezident wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:40 pm I set a one year reminder on my Gmail calendar to remind @tobijohn about buying Rondo.
It's in October....

The lefty crowd - AGF and worldwide - will feel happy about it; I´m sure he´ll make sure to always have a good lefty supply of every imaginable model

Posted: **Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:33 pm**

sabasgr68 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:00 pm The lefty crowd - AGF and worldwide - will feel happy about it; I´m sure he´ll make sure to always have a good lefty supply of every imaginable model

True, but he'd keep all the lefties!

Posted: **Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:12 pm**

tobijohn wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:57 pm Buying Agile, not Rondo and it looks like I'll need a few more months. First, I've got to get rid of my old bucket of bolts 1996 LT4 coupe and pick up one of the latest generation mid-engine Corvettes

One of my neighbors recently acquired a new black vette of the current style. Somewhat impractical up here as you can only have them on the road for about half of the year, but it is a awfully sweet looking ride!

Posted: **Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:43 pm**

Remember the Rondo of 2008 thru 2011? It boomed during that recession, and I think a similar company will do well in 2023, as discretionary GAS funds shrink.

Posted: **Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:01 am**

Just noticed this on the "Covid-19/Inventory update feed"

https://www.rondomusic.com/Covid.html
July 1, 2022 Just a heads up, this will likely be the last time we get the SX Bass guitars shown below. The logistics costs (both importing and shipping to west coast locations) have gotten completely out of control such that the importing and shipping cost now make up about 75% of the price of the instrument. If you have any interest in these, I suggest ordering now as this will likely be your last chance. As of now we do plan to continue to produce and import Agile, SX, and Hadean guitars but do expect supply to remain tight, especially with Agile for the rest of 2022. Please enjoy a happy and safe 4th of July!

Posted: **Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:57 am**

uwmcscott wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:01 am Just noticed this on the "Covid-19/Inventory update feed"

https://www.rondomusic.com/Covid.html
July 1, 2022 Just a heads up, this will likely be the last time we get the SX Bass guitars shown below. The logistics costs (both importing and shipping to west coast locations) have gotten completely out of control such that the importing and shipping cost now make up about 75% of the price of the instrument. If you have any interest in these, I suggest ordering now as this will likely be your last chance. As of now we do plan to continue to produce and import Agile, SX, and Hadean guitars but do expect supply to remain tight, especially with Agile for the rest of 2022. Please enjoy a happy and safe 4th of July!

Why would the logistics and shipping costs that account for 75% of the cost of SX Bass guitars and that now make them no longer profitable, not apply to the other models and make them unprofitable as well?

Posted: **Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:03 pm**

tobijohn wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:57 am Why would the logistics and shipping costs that account for 75% of the cost of SX Bass guitars and that now make them no longer profitable, not apply to the other models and make them unprofitable as well?

Different factory maybe? Id does seam that the basses get released/show up at different times than the guitars. But then again it's Kurt so stop asking logical questions

Posted: **Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:09 pm**

uwmcscott wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:03 pm
tobijohn wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:57 am Why would the logistics and shipping costs that account for 75% of the cost of SX Bass guitars and that now make them no longer profitable, not apply to the other models and make them unprofitable as well?
Different factory maybe? Id does seam that the basses get released/show up at different times than the guitars. But then again it's Kurt so stop asking logical questions

Unless the SX Bass factory is on the edge of Outer Mongolia and/or domestic Chinese transportations costs that get it from there to a container on the cost went crazy, I can't see that being the reason. I think your latter suggestion having to do with Kurt is more likely...

Posted: **Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:46 am**

tobijohn wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:57 pm
thepezident wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:40 pm I set a one year reminder on my Gmail calendar to remind @tobijohn about buying Rondo.
It's in October....
Buying Agile, not Rondo and it looks like I'll need a few more months. First, I've got to get rid of my old bucket of bolts 1996 LT4 coupe and pick up one of the latest generation mid-engine Corvettes

Is the steering wheel on the other side for you?

Posted: **Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:52 am**

watercaster wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:46 am
tobijohn wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:57 pm
thepezident wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:40 pm I set a one year reminder on my Gmail calendar to remind @tobijohn about buying Rondo.
It's in October....
Buying Agile, not Rondo and it looks like I'll need a few more months. First, I've got to get rid of my old bucket of bolts 1996 LT4 coupe and pick up one of the latest generation mid-engine Corvettes
Is the steering wheel on the other side for you?

Why would it be? U.S. automobiles are all leftys! Except for some postal vehicles!

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:58 pm**

Thanks for pointing this out (cryptic opt in confirmation email).
I removed the double opt in requirement so customers can just sign up from the home page and be done with it.

Kurt

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:03 pm**

uwmcscott wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:03 pm
tobijohn wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:57 am Why would the logistics and shipping costs that account for 75% of the cost of SX Bass guitars and that now make them no longer profitable, not apply to the other models and make them unprofitable as well?
Yes for sure. The shipping costs impacts all of our products. However the shipping cost ($100 on average for a bass guitar now) has a much bigger impact on an SX bass or guitar, for example, which might costs me $80 to $100 vs an Agile guitar which might cost me $500 to $700. On a percentage basis, the impact on the lower cost larger items (again like SX Basses) is much greater. So what I am saying is customers seem to be able to handle a 15% increase in the selling price of Agile vs a 100% increase in the selling price of SX year over year.

Thanks.
Kurt

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:24 pm**

kurtzentmaier wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:03 pm
Yes for sure. The shipping costs impacts all of our products. However the shipping cost ($100 on average for a bass guitar now) has a much bigger impact on an SX bass or guitar, for example, which might costs me $80 to $100 vs an Agile guitar which might cost me $500 to $700. On a percentage basis, the impact on the lower cost larger items (again like SX Basses) is much greater. So what I am saying is customers seem to be able to handle a 15% increase in the selling price of Agile vs a 100% increase in the selling price of SX year over year.

Thanks.
Kurt

Ah, so the total cost of shipping as a percentage of the bass guitar is much greater and so once factored in, pushes its price point to an uncompetitive level. I'd think then that the rest of the lower cost SX and Hadean guitars are also close to that point.

If the cost of shipping from Asia does not go back down or continues to increase, then the cheaper labor costs become less and less of a factor in their pricing.

I wonder at what point it becomes economically feasable to produce these lower price point guitars domestically (or in Mexico/Central America)?

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:31 pm**

I am seeing some lower shipping quotes coming in now. So 40' container price quotes are more like $8k to $10k now vs $14K about 6 months ago vs about $4K before the pandemic. However we still have the 25% tariff to contend with and the much higher domestic (US) trucking costs. (Trucking costs inside of China / Korea is not a significant factor) Overall I would say we are seeing a very slight improvement in the logistical situation but at this point, selling many of the SX products still does not make any profit. We will let our existing orders (many of them placed before the pandemic) continue to come in (several posted on the new items page this week) and re-asses after the holidays.

Kurt

Posted: **Mon Jul 11, 2022 12:41 pm**

mickey wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:28 pm I have essentially felt that Rondo was on a downhill slide since they put those odd number of string monstrosities at a higher priority than 6 string leftys. I expect them to go belly up before I do!

I suspect his shift was brilliant. I dont know his numbers but i suspect the erg gave him a ton of new sales and from the look of the prices 4x his profit.

Posted: **Mon Jul 11, 2022 12:51 pm**

tobijohn wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:57 pm
thepezident wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:40 pm I set a one year reminder on my Gmail calendar to remind @tobijohn about buying Rondo.
It's in October....
Buying Agile, not Rondo and it looks like I'll need a few more months. First, I've got to get rid of my old bucket of bolts 1996 LT4 coupe and pick up one of the latest generation mid-engine Corvettes

I forgot you have an old c4. You dont need to jump to the new C8. Have you driven even a C5 or C6. They are phenominal compared to the C4. 7 to 12k will get you ass puckeringly fast, cmfortable and nimble. The driving the C4 reminds me more of a C1 62 or my C2 66 vette than any C5.
And with the money you save there get agile.

Seriously dont even bother with the C7 or C8 for the money. The C5/6 are even still insanely beautiful and havent aged a day. The C7 is already looking gimmicky

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