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I've been thinking a lot about this subject lately and have come up with what I feel are the four main priorities of people in bands. I made a list of these four areas of prioritization with examples of things they often represent.

M, or Music: The love of music. Pursuing musical excellence. Emphasis on quality of performance. Pride in one's craft.

P, or Partying: Alcohol and drugs. Getting drunk and/or high while performing.

S, or Social: "Making it" and achieving fame and recognition (if only local). Hanging out, being part of a group, chasing women, traveling to venues, being cool, ego gratification, food and drink.

F, or Financial: Making money. Music as a job and a source of significant income.


I then imagined applying a numerical value between 1 and 10 for each of these priorities, with 1 representing minimal interest, and by implication 10 being its opposite.

Using these postulates, along with what I know to be empirically and inductively true regarding the behavior of musicians, I found that some interesting conclusions can be drawn. I ranked myself on this scale, along with everyone I currently play with, and everyone I can remember ever playing with.

There are complex interrelationships between these priorities.

There is a unique relationship between M and P in that they are inversely related. It’s generally not possible to have a score of 10 for M and 10 for P. It's almost a law that you only get 10 points to share between the scores of M and P. However, on rare occasions one can be M10 P10 S10 F10. The catch is that it can only last a short time and you're dead by 27. Keith Richards is the exception that proves this rule.

There are many people I work with for whom P by far eclipses everything else. They party till they can't perform anymore (negating M), they socially ostracize the audience (negating S), and they spend every cent they make at a gig on booze and drugs (negating F).

Surprisingly, PFS can all be relatively high, with M relatively low, and one can still regularly work as a musician.

True professionals will tend to maximize M and F. This certainly applies to studio musicians, hired guns, and freelance floating players. Steve Vai and Joe Satriani are MFs.

Unless one has the same priorities, it is an exercise in frustration to be in a band comprised of others with high P and S scores. Many garage bands and bar bands have their ranks filled with those kind of people.

There are people who rank 10 in F, and 1 in all the other categories. Those would be music lawyers, accountants, managers, booking agents, and other bean counters for whom it's all about the money.

Incidentally, I ranked myself as:
M 9
P 1
S 3
F 9

By all means, please do rank yourself below. Also feel free to discuss improvements, modifications, and extrapolations on this system.

It's occurred to me that a good name for a band would be The MFers. It would be sort of an inside joke, which you'd all be in on now.

M - 7
P -1
S -1
F - 2 would like it to be a 10, but M is bringing me down.


I don't think I'm very creative and thus never pursue playing with other people. I think those numbers would have been different if I felt my playing was better as well.

M 9
P 0
S 5
F 0

Music and fun are the only two for me.

Interesting. Certainly priorities change over time, but overall...
M 8
P 3
S 3
F 2

My P and S have had a ton of overlap.

Back 35 years ago , it was
M 7
P 6
S 5
F 4

Even if I go up a buddies house to jam for a hour or 2, I like to have a beer or 2 max. Takes the edge off and doesn't make you seem like a prude. Way too many people went overboard with the drinking when they were younger and can't even have 1?

Hmmm. If you are into music for F these days, I think you are in the wrong business!

For me in 2021 going into 2022:

M 3 (really need to rekindle the passion here)
P 0 (I grew up a long time ago. If you are over 30 partying like you are 18-22, you have bigger issues than the music suffering. A few drinks like an adult is fine BTW.)
S 0 (This needs to get fixed…see P, mostly the fun food hanging out side. I have no desire for ego boosting recognition, and my wife doesn’t let me chase young women!)
F -5 (With $0 revenue and plenty of expenses, this has to be negative)

I haven’t played with others since pre-COVID let alone anything remotely gig like. Currently have no desire to be involved in what barely passes as the local music scene. I am guessing that won’t change until I relocate at the soonest.

M - 8
P - 0
S - 1
F - 0

BatUtilityBelt wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 1:11 pm Interesting. Certainly priorities change over time, but overall...
M 8
P 3
S 3
F 2

My P and S have had a ton of overlap.

I like those ratios.

mozz wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 1:40 pm Even if I go up a buddies house to jam for a hour or 2, I like to have a beer or 2 max. Takes the edge off and doesn't make you seem like a prude. Way too many people went overboard with the drinking when they were younger and can't even have 1?

Good observations.

Understand, when I say P is low I don't mean abstinence. I mean partaking of beer, spirits, weed, or whatever, at a level where it does not adversely effect ones performance. In all honesty, I know people who perform better slightly "high." Everyone is different in their tolerance, and there's a tipping point where dexterity, timing, memory, coordination, basically all the things one needs to play their instrument at the highest level, begins to diminish. That's the Rubicon I never allow myself to cross. If I have one drink per set, over the course of three one hour sets, I know I'm good in that regard. That's my personal tolerance. Yeah, I know that's pretty weak for being 1/2 Irish, but it is what it is.

However, I play with people that are already doing shots and smoking weed before the first set. Then they come on stage with a beer. Then someone in the audience brings them more shots; or they call to the bartender over their microphone to bring more beer; or their wife, girlfriend or bros are on standby to bring another drink. Some of these people go at it two drinks at a time, "two-fisting it," as the phrase goes. These are the same guys who go to the bathroom or leave the bar to go in the parking lot and get high again during the first break. By the beginning of the second set they are noticeably impaired, missing chord changes, forgetting lyrics, their timing off. This is also about the time they start screaming and/or progressively turning up their onstage volume. God I hate how drunk musicians lose all capacity for subtly. Under such circumstances the third set is even worse and is quite frankly misery for me. By that point I've quit drinking entirely (I do have to drive myself home within the hour), while for the hard core party people in the band the the point of significant intoxication has long ago been reached and the fun is just getting started.

What I just described would be P at anywhere from 5-9. P at 10 means incapacitated, as in on the floor, incoherent, not able to play at all. I've seen that too. If somebody can keep P at 5 or below I'll deal with it, especially if F is high. But when somebody's P score is consistently going above 5 onstage, then it becomes a serious issue for me, regardless of the money.

I've also played in groups where there are guys who don't drink at all, and to a man they were former alcoholics on the wagon. I always felt a combination of pity and sincere respect for them. It's sad they can't partake of the collective jovial spirit alcohol provides at low to moderate levels, without crossing over in that realm where their skills diminish and they become inebriated. I've also known guys like this who are aware that they can't resist the temptation of playing in bar/club atmospheres, and either give it up entirely or play exclusively in church bands. No disrespect for those guys whatsoever, as they tend to be some of the best players I know.

I need Google Math to understand all of this

Hmm....never really gigged, but...

M-8
P-0
S-8
F-0

The reasoning is I love to play, and take it somewhat seriously, but I love to have fun doing it.
I only really jam with a friend now, so it's about having fun with music we enjoy.

For the partying side of things, that's dead for me now. I never used drugs at all, and drinking depressants while taking antidepressants is counter-intuitive to me (that said, when all this COVID ninsense if over, I will have a beer with the boys because that will be an occasion).

As for financial....eh, I ain't THAT good.

Tonray's Ghost wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 8:02 am I need Google Math to understand all of this

Ask Google what this means:

Because I place such a high priority on F, I'll tend to put up with somebody who Ps a lot, so long as I'm getting off on the M.

toomanycats and I would get along well....

toomanycats wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:57 am

Tonray's Ghost wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 8:02 am I need Google Math to understand all of this

Ask Google what this means:

Because I place such a high priority on F, I'll tend to put up with somebody who Ps a lot, so long as I'm getting off on the M.

I am loving that! Thanks for the laugh.

Interesting thread.
Very well laid out platform.

I'm just a hobby / home player so it doesnt really apply.
I will say I play because I love it and the music that inspires me, and have no interest in any sort of party elements when I want to be focused.
Or any social standing.

I have an undiagnosed sort of chronic fatigue - I'm just tired most of the time.
I do what I can in my lifestyle, which is pretty healthy, to get enough / better sleep.

I say this because some nights I am weary and just have a hard time.
When I am feeling sharp and playing at, or pushing my ability, I have such a feeling of joy and satisfaction that far surpasses any of the (many) chemically based fun I have ever had.

Except for the post-sex endorphin release maybe, or on par, idk its in that ballpark.

I have observed over the years that the most talented amongst us all appear to share a flaw:

One drink is too many.
Once you have one drink, ten thousand isn't enough.

Long wondered why that is?

If I were ever able to meet folks to be in a band, I would need a few drinks to get over my hugely introverted nature to do it in front of folks. Once I have a couple to a few drinks my voice loosens up and I can sing like I am in the shower (or in the choir) instead of out there doing a solo, tight and shaky. I will never be able to play a guitar in front of people like I can when I am just doing it for stress relief/fun though other than the chords strumming along as I sing.

I would say my numbers would be like
3
2
1
0

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

From 1999-2006, I was in a cover band. It looked like this, more or less:

M: 9, I loved sounding good. Smooth, flawless performance - or as close as we could get without ruining the fun of it all. Our band was pretty good at this, so much so that it's ruined me for starting/joining other projects. Everyone showed up ready to rock as a rule.

P: Solid 5. Never once did I get too shitfaced to perform well, but a good, solid buzz was beneficial to me. I was the vox, so water was a very big part of every gig. I drank gallons. We had to work in quite a few instrumentals/jams due to my constant need to piss. They understood why I needed to hydrate and were good humored about it. Drugs have never been a part of my routine.

S: Again, solid 5. It was a cover band, so there's only so much you can achieve. "Making it" for us meant consistent bookings and slowly increasing our fee while enjoying the ride - and we accomplished that. All the other stuff was just for kicks - women, local fame, ego gratification...I didn't really chase it, but I didn't exactly run from it either. If youtube had been an option for us, this stat might have been higher.

F: 7. We did pretty well financially, compared to others at the time. I made more at the gigs than I did at my full-time job. I think we maxed out that stat - even so - it wasn't the point of the whole thing for us, so it gets a 7.

Now, I'm a part-time bedroom musician. Looks like this:

M: 11. It's only me I need to satisfy, so I'm always trying to get better at something. My work is never perfect, and I have trouble letting go of projects. I tend to over-produce them.

P: 1. No partying. I think I've gotten all of that out of me. I will get a little drunk with the missus from time to time. It happens about once quarterly. Maybe a few edibles on rare occasions now. I have to be in a certain mood for crowds.

S: 2. My only shot at "making it" now would be as a youtube goofball, and I don't have the time or inclination. Sometimes I come up with a song I think might be worthy of such a venture. As for crowds and travelling, I have fully morphed into a full blown introvert since then - I don't think I could stand the social aspect of it all anymore.

F: 0. But only because marketing doesn't interest me. As a result, I suck at it. If I could get the gumption to get better at that, I'm sure I could supplement my income.

Great topic, TMC. This was fun to think about. It brought around some good memories.

Now I have to go shovel more funking snow.

rrobbone wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:09 pm Now I have to go shovel more funking snow.

Hot tip: I learned that if I just drive over the shit, after a few months it usually goes away on its own.

Chocol8 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 8:26 pm

rrobbone wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:09 pm Now I have to go shovel more funking snow.

Hot tip: I learned that if I just drive over the shit, after a few months it usually goes away on its own.

I wish I could just leave it.

There were lyrics?

Chocol8 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:28 pm There were lyrics?

Sure . . . "Boze-de-boze-de-bop, se-de-bop." Pretty good, huh?

Very interesting rating system
Reminds me of the “tests” they used to post in magazines to see how you scored on certain subjects