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Holy Schnikes! Gibson buys Mesa Boogie
Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:01 pm
by Rollin Hand
Re: Holy Schnikes! Gibson buys Mesa Boogie
Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:19 pm
by aullucci
Could be good, no? Gibson doesn't make amps, Mesa makes good amps. It fills a hole in their lineup with quality products. Unless (until?) they ruin it.
Re: Holy Schnikes! Gibson buys Mesa Boogie
Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:26 pm
by toomanycats
"Only a Boogie is good enough."
Kinda has a nice ring to it.
Re: Holy Schnikes! Gibson buys Mesa Boogie
Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:28 pm
by uwmcscott
aullucci wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:19 pm
Could be good, no? Gibson doesn't make amps, Mesa makes good amps. It fills a hole in their lineup with quality products. Unless (until?) they ruin it.
Yeah, it could go very well or very bad. At least that Henry dude isn't in charge anymore
In general though, business acquisitions are never made without some expected financial benefit - otherwise it would not make sense to even go through the effort. There's always the feel good/happy story about how "nothing will change", but something always changes - it has to in order to meet the finacial objectives of the acquisition.
Re: Holy Schnikes! Gibson buys Mesa Boogie
Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:30 pm
by golem
Randall Smith is getting old. Mid 70s? I think it's good that there's something in place for continuity. Maybe this was the best option out there. But given Gibson's recent history, it does seem a bit concerning.
Re: Holy Schnikes! Gibson buys Mesa Boogie
Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:36 pm
by aullucci
uwmcscott wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:28 pm
aullucci wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:19 pm
Could be good, no? Gibson doesn't make amps, Mesa makes good amps. It fills a hole in their lineup with quality products. Unless (until?) they ruin it.
Yeah, it could go very well or very bad. At least that Henry dude isn't in charge anymore
In general though, business acquisitions are never made without some expected financial benefit - otherwise it would not make sense to even go through the effort. There's always the feel good/happy story about how "nothing will change", but something always changes - it has to in order to meet the finacial objectives of the acquisition.
You're definitely right about that - but there are a lot of ways to find that benefit. If Gibson streamlines Boogie's marketing department, or has the facilities to make their amps more cheaply, then everyone wins. If Gibson guts the R&D and design team and ends up selling crappy amps that just look like Boogies, then everyone loses.
Re: Holy Schnikes! Gibson buys Mesa Boogie
Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:46 pm
by uwmcscott
aullucci wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:36 pm
If Gibson streamlines Boogie's marketing department,
or has the facilities to make their amps more cheaply, then everyone wins. If Gibson guts the R&D and design team and ends up selling crappy amps that just look like Boogies, then everyone loses.
In normal times, that would probably be the most likely outcome as production costs here in the US are by far the highest cost of doing business - but I don't think everyone would win if they deviated from Mesa's model. They could do a Peavey and move all production overseas except high end, which would really suck IMHO.
In any scenario though, there will be change - and that in itself turns some people off. It will be interesting to see where it ends up too, being able to secure offshore production right now is difficult too.
Re: Holy Schnikes! Gibson buys Mesa Boogie
Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:37 pm
by mozz
They will butcher the amps without a doubt. Mesas now are a bitch to fix and some repair guys won't touch them. They will flood the market with cheap Chinese builds.
EDIT: one guy on the repair forums said the Mesa Mark V has 47 relays. Sounds like a nightmare to fix. Maybe they are working fine now, but relays, pots, jacks, switches, all go bad. Guaranteed quality will go downhill. Maybe Gibson/Mesa will sue Fender for copying their designs, wait, Mesa are fender copies.
Re: Holy Schnikes! Gibson buys Mesa Boogie
Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:43 pm
by Rollin Hand
mozz wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:37 pm
They will butcher the amps without a doubt. Mesas now are a bitch to fix and some repair guys won't touch them. They will flood the market with cheap Chinese guys.
I don't know about that -- in the article, the Gibson guys are hammering the "two American companies" thing pretty hard. Also, the guy who created the comapny is going to stay on, which is hopeful -- kind of like how Yamaha bought Line6 and hired the guy who started, but left, Line6 to run it. Their products got better almost instantly.
If Gibson really wanted to have an Epiphone of amps, they could try to grab Peavey.
Re: Holy Schnikes! Gibson buys Mesa Boogie
Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:13 pm
by mickey
Henry is gone from Gibson, right?
So maybe they won't screw the pooch?
Re: Holy Schnikes! Gibson buys Mesa Boogie
Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:22 pm
by uwmcscott
Rollin Hand wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:43 pm
I don't know about that -- in the article, the Gibson guys are hammering the "two American companies" thing pretty hard. Also, the guy who created the comapny is going to stay on, which is hopeful -- kind of like how Yamaha bought Line6 and hired the guy who started, but left, Line6 to run it. Their products got better almost instantly.
There's always a feel good story about how things are going to be the same, and the outgoing pioneer always gets the red-carpet treatment for a year or two. But make no mistake, Gibson is a big company that has recently gone through a lot of financial difficulty - they would not have been allowed to make this purchase if they didn't have a strong plan to turn a sizeable profit on the deal.
On the feel good side I'd love it - Gibson les pauls are still my favorite guitar of all time, and Mesa does have a very unique reputation and product. I'm also a big fan of USA made goods. But if history is any indicator, financial motives are the most likely source of this deal.
Re: Holy Schnikes! Gibson buys Mesa Boogie
Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 4:24 pm
by Rollin Hand
uwmcscott wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:22 pm
Rollin Hand wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:43 pm
I don't know about that -- in the article, the Gibson guys are hammering the "two American companies" thing pretty hard. Also, the guy who created the comapny is going to stay on, which is hopeful -- kind of like how Yamaha bought Line6 and hired the guy who started, but left, Line6 to run it. Their products got better almost instantly.
There's always a feel good story about how things are going to be the same, and the outgoing pioneer always gets the red-carpet treatment for a year or two. But make no mistake, Gibson is a big company that has recently gone through a lot of financial difficulty - they would not have been allowed to make this purchase if they didn't have a strong plan to turn a sizeable profit on the deal.
On the feel good side I'd love it - Gibson les pauls are still my favorite guitar of all time, and Mesa does have a very unique reputation and product. I'm also a big fan of USA made goods. But if history is any indicator, financial motives are the most likely source of this deal.
Make no mistake, it's about money. I am sure it's about a handsome retirement (or at least some nice money) for Randall Smith as well. But, if both sides can benefit, it won't be bad.
And smart acquirers know that the best course of action is to buy the company, say " how can we help?" and leave them be. Gibson's new ownership has only had one real mistep thus far -- the whole "play authentic" boondoggle -- but aside from that have done very well.
Re: Holy Schnikes! Gibson buys Mesa Boogie
Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:39 pm
by peskypesky
I heard the news and it made sense to me. I mean, it's not like when Henry was running the company and trying to turn Gibson into the next Apple.
Re: Holy Schnikes! Gibson buys Mesa Boogie
Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:08 pm
by Chocol8
This is likely a very good deal for the seller. How it works out for the buyers, retailers and consumers is less clear.
Boogie has had more of a presence in the mom and pop shops vs the Guitar Centers where Gibson likes to sell. I would be worried that the first noticeable change is that the small shops will either lose the line due to Gibson pulling it, or they will drop the line because Gibson is too unreasonable to work with.