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Pete Thorn unloads...

https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/ ... -Tone-Tips

I don't know why they bother... nothing beats Neo-Classical-Trance-Polka! NOTHING

I think lots of people been saying it. But I think it's different when it comes from someone like Pete.
Pete's more of a session musician, journalist, hired gun type. He has more reason to not ruffle feathers than anyone.

I like the shot out to these technical players from the new generation. I'm liking them more than I ever liked shredders (even my favorite Paul Gilbert).

I didn't know this one. I'm not sure if she's my cup of tea but I recognize she's got talent and would listen to more just to see if it's this song I'm not digging:



This artist Pete mentioned I do dig. And I'm not always a fan of Yvette young as some of here stuff is a nit too out there for my tastes:



I don't love everything Mateus does. This is a bit outside of his usual posts but you can listen to this and tell me the dude doesn't have talent:



Cory got a mention from Pete there too. You might know him from this band:

Pete would also like to invite you kids to get off his lawn.....

I realised this my first year in university. I was fast. Another guy played "The Joker" on acoustic. The girls went to him. Lesson learned.

It is fun to play fast. It really is. It impresses other dudes. But songs matter more to more people.

The thing about technique is that anyone can learn it. But to do something cool with it that connects with people is hard, and takes real talent.

Rollin Hand wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:31 pm It is fun to play fast. It really is. It impresses other dudes. But songs matter more to more people.

I agree with this. Personally I don't care what matters to anyone else, but I'll say that as much as I enjoy "guitarism", my favorite genre of music are songs (with vocals, preferably meaningful lyrics). Not too long (with some exceptions). With nice arrangements and solos, sure. Or just an acoustic guitar or piano. And learning to strum a 3-chord bonfire song was exhilarating. When friends come over, they want to hear a song everybody knows and can hum/sing along to, not a virtuoso performance.

Do I want to be able to play something difficult? Yes. For me, not to impress anyone.

Having said all that... almost anything will have an audience. You could take a performer with a raspy voice and have him sing familiar well known songs off-key in a funny way (with a decent instrument backing) and there will be a dedicated following. Probably the only thing that won't be tolerated is bad rhythm mistakes.

Also reminded me of the old joke: there are two street performers on two different corners, each is playing guitar. Each has their jar for money donations. One is old, the other is young. The young one is incredibly fast, playing all over the neck, shredding away. The old one just picks a note or three here and there. But the old one is getting a lot more money. So someone asks the old guitar player why he gets more money. So he says: "because that young guy is still looking for his notes and I've already found mine". (something like that).

I always go back to the quote by Dave Mustaine: "David Gilmour can say more with 3 notes than Yngwie can with 100... But at least they're both still talking".

I have no use for Yngwie Malmsteen. I was impressed with him for about five minutes when I was in high school, but that was mostly for the "neo-classical" flavor (I was a weird kid, I was heavily into classical (baroque in particular), and Celtic music, as well as rock and everything else), and I got bored with it pretty quickly.

Even back then I considered the: "he-who-plays-fastest-wins" kind of guitar soloing to be unmusical at worst, and exhibitionist at best, so for me, it's not a "get off my lawn" thing. I thought that way when I was 18 years old. It doesn't serve the song, only the player's ego. I've always been more impressed with players who have a great sense of phrasing, and color, and texture, and frickin' MELODY than the "shredders". Cats like Gilmour and Alex Lifeson, and Eric Johnson, Andy Summers, George Harrison, BB King (hell, ALL the KIngs), Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton, etc, etc.. Even the Edge (and I'm not even a U2 fan!). All those guys are more musical than SPEED! And all those guys can shred too... Well, maybe not the Edge... I think he'd be lost without without a delay pedal... Maybe he was a bad example.

But a guitar solo should speak, and weep, and soar, and sing... not babbel! And I swear, the sound of sweep picking literally makes me nauseous if I hear it too much. Especially if it's played on an 8-string, multi-scale guitar.

[mention]golem[/mention] thanks for doing the legwork on the vids.

Nearly anyone can learn to play fast if they are willing to put in the time. It’s much harder to learn to play music, and I think it takes a special artist to create great music.

Things that kids can master:
Chess
Mathematics
Athletics
Playing guitar fast

Things that kids cannot master:
Writing a great novel
Painting a masterpiece
Composing a symphony or opera
Recording an album like The Beach Boys Pet Sounds

Once you realize the reason why this is the case, you'll understand the answer to some of the questions implicitly raised in this thread.

toomanycats wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:59 am Things that kids can master:
Chess
Mathematics
Athletics
Playing guitar fast

Things that kids cannot master:
Writing a great novel
Painting a masterpiece
Composing a symphony or opera
Recording an album like The Beach Boys Pet Sounds

Once you realize the reason why this is the case, you'll understand the answer to some of the questions implicitly raised in this thread.

Great list! I am adding SPELLING BEES - kids can learn to spell words they'll never use (and nobody uses), but upon examination they are not outstanding communicators, no outstanding capacity in spoken or written word (which is promptly on display during valedictorian speeches).

Dave Gilmour's solo in "Hey, You!" makes me tear up almost every time if I'm listening to the song. Other music can make you laugh. Guitar athletics, like so many novelties, elicit initial short-lived excitement followed by quick boredom. I'll even say that it works within the context of the same band - to me the Scorpions are very melodic, but there's also songs with just fast guitar parts. The real solos are memorable (and pre composed, repeatable), you can almost hum them (if you could reach that high). The "shredding" is just elevator music or muzak.

I love technical guitar, shredfest guitar, superspeed gymnastics and all. I love instrumental and instrumetal guitar. I love Fusion guitar. I love artists who combine insane licks and speed with slower more melodic passages.

I also love full melodic leads, acoustic, harp guitar, blues and rock guitar of all types. I love great country guitar, and bluegrass(the original shredders) and more. In short - I love guitar music.

I don't consider any of it athletics. I don't consider any of it devoid of soul or value. All the music I like speaks to me in one fashion or another.

Fast works for me only if it makes music, all to often it just sounds like someone playing a scale as fast as they possibly can just because they can. I need a song to take me somewhere it can be fast or slow as long as it picks me up and takes me there. I think I should add that the music that works for me may not work for you. I personally dislike most jazz while others really get off on it and so on. I'm not saying the ability to shred is bad but that for me a lot of it just really is kinda boring while others may be all about it, I think that's why there are so many different genres out there, In the end All music is a good thing for someone. I really would like to see the guitar solo getting used more in the new music I hear out there.

Interesting article.
This is probably one of the main reasons I never went head on into a music career. I will preface this by saying, I have major respect for those who took the plunge and did what they loved despite all. There is little money in music and to make a living you have to roll with the times, so to all those who do it day in and day out, mad respect.

Music along with all forms of art, culture, clothes, colors, temperatures is subjective. And all of us have our own likes and dislikes which luckily on this board we respect and can openly discuss without retribution. In the end, opinions are like @$$holes and we are all entitled to our own. As long as we respect our differences then its all cool.

I LOVE technical playing, fast, slow in between. Anything that inspires me at the moment works. Sometimes its Michael Angelo, Yngwie, or a band like Death or Spirit Box. At times its Periphery or Necrophagist, and at others is Paco De Lucia or Vivaldi and maybe some Dream Theater or Vai. Other times, its Foo Fighters, Poison or White Lion, and then there is Metallica and Megadeth with some Iron Maiden and Linkin Park thrown in for good measure. Point is, wheather you are listening to David Gilmour, Paul Gilbert, Segovia, or Plini, you can pull some inspiration from all these folks.

I understand the speed comments, I get them all the time. I lived through the 80's and 90's where shred was the thing then a bad thing, so believe me, I don't take it personal and have pretty thick skin about it so this commentary isn't aimed at anyone in particular. My usual answer to playing fast is, I know some songs don't need that, its a conversation, it should sing and while that is 150000% correct, my thoughts are, "I'm Cuban, and Cuban's are loud, obnoxious and yell a lot" so that is reflected in my fast lines.

Now, I get asked quite frequently why I don't publish my music or consider doing more. Music is my form of expressing whats in my head, and believe you me, its nuts in there! Its therapy, stress relief and expression. Personally, I could care less if people think I play too fast, have too many notes in my solos, too many sweeps, taps or squeals. While I try to live my life in a positive manner, respecting others, contributing to society and doing my part, I refuse to live in the popularity contest of today.
So my stuff is there if you like it cool, if not, hopefully we can still be friends. Some if it will be slow and emotional, some of it will be fast and in your face, a lot of it will be imperfect and have mistakes and bad choices, but ALL OF IT IS ME and made specifically for ME. Kinda selfish I know, but that part of me, is unapologetic and could care less if anyone likes it, listens to it, downloads it or talks trash about it. If you do like it, awesome! Glad you enjoyed it, hope it helped you today, hope you can relate or share the emotion it captured in that moment in time.

In the end, Narsh isn't some famous guy, he's just a dude who plays guitar and records a crap ton of songs because he needs to stay sane. But, I totally respect everyone's opinion on music, shred and curtains, fabric and which diapers cause less skin rash for babies.

I have posted some stuff before, in particular 18th Century Inamorata by David T Chastain. The lead is only 36 seconds long, but it gives me cold chills every time I hear it. I almost always have to rewind the lead section and play it through 3,4,5 more times.

A HS buddy of mine and I had similar music tastes in the middle, but he liked some poppy stuff I would never have listened to by preference, and I liked some heavier, shreddy type stuff he viewed in the same fashion. One time we were hanging out and listening to music and he said for about the three hundredth time "That guy just plays too fast". Kiddingly, I replied, "Nope, you just listen too slow". To my surprise, he said "That may be true."

When I first heard Joe Satriani's music, it was a revelation for me. He was playing the stuff that I had been hearing in my head for years, but thought would be impossible for anyone to play, much less popularize enough to achieve success and some fame for doing it.

If music moves you then it is good music for you. I say this generally, not pointed at anyone here - If you find certain music or styles soulless, it just means it maybe wasn't meant for your soul.

You can play music fast with art and soul. You can also just play a bunch of notes fast. The problem isn’t that it is fast. The problem for many young YouTube players is that it is only fast.

mickey wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:40 pm

I kept waiting for him to play the upper neck... the soprano guitar?

Gear_Junky wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:20 pm

mickey wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:40 pm

I kept waiting for him to play the upper neck... the soprano guitar?

I love that clip because Roy keeps up with Joe but is obviously working his butt off while Joe looks like he is about to nod off at any moment.
The upper guitar is an octave guitar, dunno if that qualifies as a soprano or not?

Incidentally, Joe was first recorded flatpicking fiddle tunes in 1939.
In case anyone should ever ask you who was the first ever to do that.
Most people with an opinion will tell you that Doc Watson was the first to flatpick fiddle tunes,
but Joe was doing it while Doc was in diapers.
Joe was equally skilled on every instrument in a Bluegrass band.
Not many folks know of him these days?

At the end of the day, I think I'd really just rather hear a song. Something that includes several good musicians all enjoying what they do. There is room within that framework to host shredding - intense, highly technical shredding full of impossible feats and unimaginable lead lines.

The better any amount of shredding incorporates into a song, the more likely I'll want to hear it more than once - if at all.

The technical prowess on display across the youtubes is astounding, but I almost never click on it when someone posts an incredible shreddy vid (invariably with some form of "I give up" phrased into the thread title). The closer it sounds to five solid minutes of what it's like when you take your pointer-finger, place it between your lips and wiggle it, making "Beeblbweeblbeeblbeebl" sound, the less chance it has to hold my attention. If there's no focus, direction, or attempt to embellish within the framework of a song - it's not for me.

I'll rephrase: Much of the content (regardless of sublect) available on youtube is from the viewpoint of, "Hey, look at me." There's nothing wrong with doing that, it's just not appealing to me. I'm willing to take your word for it when you say you're fast and technically proficient, but if I gave you 8 - 16 bars of a song to play within (and stay within) without it sounding like it was cut, copied, and pasted from fourteen different takes - what can you do with that?

I agree with Pete, most of the more popular 80's lead players could do this well, Van Halen and George Lynch specifically popping into my head as examples. Modern day examples: Petrucci and Bumblefoot are exceptionally technical players - all while serving the songs they're playing on. I'm going to throw Billy Sheehan in as well, because he's quite good at playing unorthodox lines while staying in the song.

mickey wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:35 pm

Gear_Junky wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:20 pm

mickey wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:40 pm

I kept waiting for him to play the upper neck... the soprano guitar?

I love that clip because Roy keeps up with Joe but is obviously working his butt off while Joe looks like he is about to nod off at any moment.
The upper guitar is an octave guitar, dunno if that qualifies as a soprano or not?

Incidentally, Joe was first recorded flatpicking fiddle tunes in 1939.
In case anyone should ever ask you who was the first ever to do that.
Most people with an opinion will tell you that Doc Watson was the first to flatpick fiddle tunes,
but Joe was doing it while Doc was in diapers.
Joe was equally skilled on every instrument in a Bluegrass band.
Not many folks know of him these days?

Roy had the best guitar faces!

mickey wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:40 pm

Thanks for posting that! That was not the style of music I'd usually listen to, but it was pretty amazing. And yeah, Joe is playing super-fast, but he looks so relaxed and effortless while he's doing it, his hands don't even look like they're moving that fast.

mickey wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:35 pm The upper guitar is an octave guitar, dunno if that qualifies as a soprano or not?

I forgot all about this, but finally looked it up. Apparently they do call these "soprano guitar" (whether "officially" or not, makes no difference to me). Of course, a mandolin more or less fills that space, but if a guitar player didn't want to learn to play a mandolin, certainly a cool thing.

Gear_Junky wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:08 pm

mickey wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:35 pm The upper guitar is an octave guitar, dunno if that qualifies as a soprano or not?

I forgot all about this, but finally looked it up. Apparently they do call these "soprano guitar" (whether "officially" or not, makes no difference to me). Of course, a mandolin more or less fills that space, but if a guitar player didn't want to learn to play a mandolin, certainly a cool thing.

Well, Joe Maphis was as comfortable on a mando (or banjo, or piano, or fiddle, or ....) as he was on guitar.
I tend to suspect that a young Semie Moseley was a lot more comfortable making an octave guitar than a mando.
And that doubleneck of Joe's was a custom Mosrite hollow body made by Semie when he was scarcely out of his teens.

Fretboard Journal article about Mosrite doubleneck.

I see it a couple of ways. When I was younger, I thought fast was important, and today I feel I have gotten completely over that idea through maturing. That doesn't mean there isn't a place for it, there is. If someone wants music to pace their extreme sports, then fast is what you want, and soulful not so much. But it boils down to the purpose of the music, and there are more ways to put energy into a piece than speed. An actor once told me the music I wrote to underscore his big scene made him cry. That music did its job from his perspective, and reached a part of his soul that other types of music could not. So I always ask what the purpose of the piece is.