? A tale of two Pauls
da hy
@nomadh
2014.09.22 11:57 PM
Posted on
Been Paul shopping. Have 2 new HSB ones at home one (or more) has to go back. While waiting on my 2013 studio dlxII to arrive I really fell for a 2014 studio at GC. Outplayed a lot of other guitars and almost as pretty a flame top as most upper end LPs. I was pretty sure I'd just send back the dlx when it came in. Well I gave it a shot and its beautiful and it sounds great. Too.
Now the studio was $825 has the matte finish, maple neck, 490 pups, sexy little inlay tatoo at the 12th and an abotion of a split coil system thats best to just ignore although I hear its easily fixed. Oh and mocha plastic that I surprisingly don't hate but also is easily fixed if neeed.
The deluxe is perfect except a small dig in the back of the finish. Stunning gloss finish and flame top. Its the more traditional finish and mahogany neck. Has the 490 and burstbucker, Boost circuit and true coil splitting through push/push pots.
Last night the dlx was sounding glorious and the studio seemed flat and was giving that sort of ghost note on the E string up near the 12th. Today The dlx is woofy and undefined and the studio is easily at hand and the tone with both pups seems right within the zone.
The dlx is a "real" lp with the mahogany neck and a real gloss finish. The studio has the maple neck that I always felt made for a "pretend lp" even though I love maple on my fender and generally think it the superior practical neck. Then again the studio was $150 less and my innate feeling is that a good guitar is only worth a few hundred and anything more is truly stupid. $500 or $650 more than my already perfect al 3001 hsb just to get the solid maple top with a little real flame, a nitro finish and a sticker on a headstock. Truly if Gibson didn't have 12 moth 0% financing through retail would they sell another single guitar again? Its the only reason I'm in this situation.
So how do I decide here? Maple just doesn't feel traditional to me and could really kill the resale. The dlx must certainly be more marketable and is more a real lp but I wonder if its actually too pretty for me. If one was truly superior playing of feeling then it would be easy but I'm not getting a consistent feel and they are both great but neither is "magical" either. Probably because there is no magical. I wouldn't be in any big hurry to get a gibson lp except the price only keeps going up. And It looks like maybe way up and no studio models soon.
And to be real practical I already have my 2013 studio in vintage sunburst that although plainer is an outstanding guitar and I have the hsb al3001.
Or do I just need an OCD medication?
And I know, Pictures or I couldn't be this dumb.
? A tale of two Pauls
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September 23rd 2014
@MichaelR
12:26 AM
I could be wrong but it would seem that if the rumors are true and the lp models go away then they should be a good investment for a year or two down the road. Most people don't have the money to do that though so you gotta decide how important it really is to own one right now.
da hy
12:27 AM
Really 1st world problems huh. Yea thats the ticket "I bought them as an investment". $200 a month for a year in payments would be a tough one to swallow but thanks for helping to feed my addiction
@Bender4Life
12:48 AM
get a friend to hand you each, several times in a true blind test, have said friend keep up with which guitar is being called "A" and "B" at each handoff....go with the one that feels and sounds best the most often.
or
let both go back & get 2 or 3 top end Agiles !!!
@squierfanboi
01:25 AM
return 'em both at get another 3001 or 2
the 3100m's are on sale still :baddevil:
@Fernand
01:49 AM
Hmm. I think you said it. Neither is magical.
What you're really saying is you don't want either, and the only reason you're messing around here is because of the Gibson name.
Since neither really gets you inspired playing, we're out of real value. Of the two, the studio is not a real anything. It has no more reason for being in your home than a decent AL-2000. If you loved playing it, it would be worth a little more than an Agile. And apparently you have some other guitars that you love playing?
At least the dlx is what we might call a genuine "low end Les Paul", you know those "les pauls" they made on the cheap, no binding, weird woods, etc. Unless they have cork-sniffer appeal, and can hook the interest of some rich collector, mid-tier stuff like these have no more investment value in a tight economy than a New Jersey casino. I mean who would buy it? Somebody with little money but good taste will hunt for something special. Or get and tweak an Agile. Somebody with good taste and some disposable income will go straight to a real standard Les Paul, used or new. The buyers with weak taste and flat wallet are IMHO flooded with thousands of offerings, so why should they come knocking on your door.
I'd say get rid of both of them. If you want a Les Paul that you can easily resell, and that will make you happy playing it, this make believe stuff is a waste of money and a sure invitation to buyer's remorse.
Mike Hawksmall
04:27 AM
I have heard some shit in my day, and this is right up there.^^^^^^^^ yeah, get rid if this make believe stuff and go get yourself a nice al2000:puzzled:
Put all 3 of them in the cases and hide them for a week. The first one you take out after a weeks time is the keeper.
05:59 AM
You need to decide what you really want the them for. If you are buying them as an investment, then the Studio Deluxe will most likely hold it's value better. Having said that all 3 of them are guitars that have been mass-produced and sold at clearance pricing, so it's not likely that any of them will have a notable increase in value over the years.
If you are buying them to play, keep the ones that you feel sound the best.
What a guitar is "worth" to you is a question only you can answer.
da hy
08:39 AM
I want to go the opposite direction. If gibson had stainless and ebony at earth prices I'd skip the agile. If rondo would catch on to the huge market niche potential of nitro I'd probably skip gibson, maybe. Right now I have 5 les pauls I need that to be 2 tops or I'm checking myself in somewhere for rehab. I have almost 30 guitars. Really only need 3 or 4 but for art and fun and because they are cheap I'll be happy with maybe 12 or so. Part of the reason I got you in here is for an internet group therapy session. I have got to get over the idea of just because there are so many great guitars now at bargain prices or more expensive guitars that I can afford and even deserve doesn't mean I need to own them all. I like wood but I also like trees I don't want to wipe them from the planet to make guitars. Maybe I should invest a few bucks into lessons so I suck less
09:24 AM
Other than perhaps a professional musician, no one really NEEDS more than one guitar. That doesn't mean we dont WANT them though.
You also bring up a good point that a lot of people miss - there is a massive glut of new guitars available on clearance pricing each and every year, and there are many more companies producing very good quality guitars overseas for a fraction of what the domestic producers charge. There will always be a good deal around the corner because the market is totally flooded. One of the reasons that vintage guitars are so expensive is because they are rare - far fewer were produced, and many have been lost or destroyed.
It's a balance that's hard to achieve. I have 5 guitars and I sometimes think I have too many. But I can afford to have them and I like them, so I still have them.
Mike Hawksmall
09:30 AM
And that, my friends, is the key to owning however many guitars your little heart desires.
da hy
09:30 AM
I have heard some shit in my day, and this is right up there.^^^^^^^^ yeah, get rid if this make believe stuff and go get yourself a nice al2000:puzzled:
Put all 3 of them in the cases and hide them for a week. The first one you take out after a weeks time is the keeper.
He only owns 5. He is not a hoarder. I am on my way to becoming a cheap guitar museum curator. I don't need another job. My heart desires too many guitars.
Have you seen my $1000 guitar collection?
My new $1000 collection includes only 1 or 2 guitars. If the 2 patterns merge, I'm bankrupt
da hy
11:00 AM
So you are saying go big or go home. Maybe a real les paul only has nibs? Even the 2014 standards stopped some of that so even a new '14 wouldn't do. Maybe a real Gibson needs ebony fb or inlaid headstock and full binding. Well ultimate Gibsons maybe but not nice gibsons. Also at a certain price I'm afraid to touch it myself or even own it. I see what you mean but I think there's room for an amateurs players market. Theres more of me out there than pros. Its why the studio was invented.
Neither is magical because a guitar cant be magical. If someone can show me the guitar that makes me play like mike Schenker and SRV I'll sell every guitar I have and hock my house. Really, I'd do it. Some guitars are dogs, most are perfectly playable to very nice and a few have just a bit more something. Probably just a special resonant note or 2 that you can make a special song if the right guy plays it. So I had my magical guitar moment 25 years ago when I bought my strat without ever even plugging it in at the store and not looking at another guitar for 20 years. But I was also pretty ignorant then.
The dlx will be at practice tonight then home to compare the 2 or even the 3rd. Tomorrow is Rival sons. Then hopefully some time fri and weekend then I should make a decision.
@kungphugrip
11:22 AM
Far to much thinking going on here.
slowdown,breath,relax(meaning blaze)
take the guitars, plug them in, close your eyes and play for awhile
maybe play something your not great at at see which one makes it easier
just pick the one that feels best and moves u the most.
btw they both look beautiful!
@Fernand
04:19 PM
I'm not saying go big or go home. I'm thinking the medium tier Gibsons probably aren't good investments. So you have to go for the magic. I don't know why that is, but IMHO some guitars bring out more, call it "soul". Maybe that practice tonight will tell you something.
If you can afford it, then who cares. Money paper is worth less than a good something. I just got an estimate on repairing my son's car. $2800 to fix a broken door handle. You bet a guitar that makes you even just a little happier is worth its price. Maybe start a long term hunt for a great used instrument that really turns you on? Maybe spend many hours just concentrating and playing each of the guitars in turn: get to know them again, and sort into keepers and junkers?
If each guitar you have is in its own way special, you're doing something right. But if you're feeling overstretched, with in a pile of who-cares instruments, adding more to the pile probably isn't going to make you happier, and could make you miserable. You're sincerely asking for input. I don't know what the best solution is, but if you're not earning money with them, and not all that happy either, I'm saying it's time to rethink it. What's working for you and what exactly isn't?
@tonebender
05:29 PM
I too kinda like the tannish plastics. At first they were a little disconcerting then the more I see them the more they grow on me. Between them I would keep the one that plays the best. I would lean towards the Studio if they are equal on playability.
da hy
11:17 AM
I agree. My prob is figuring out what is the best one. They are both very good. The '14 maybe has a bit of ghost noting above the 12th on the low E unplugged. But it seems brighter and I thought it would cut through the band better. The dlx seemed darker and higher gain even on the same 490 pup. In practice a few weeks ago it seemed the 14 got lost and last night the dlx seemed to drop right into place. Special points to the coil tap that seemed to be helpful and the push/push pots that were very functional. I still think the '14 didnt get a fair shot that day as I think it was just me or my ears feeling off. Still it makes you think. And truth is I'm really a "feel" guy. If one really jumped out at me by feel then the tone can be dealt with later.
They both play and look so nice its why I'm down to the more esoteric points of tone, coil taps, price diff, resale after I'm dead, is it too pretty for me or would it be nicer to have 1 matte guitar, etc.
I tried another very sexy dlx against this '14 when I got it and the '14 was such an obvious winner in comparison and against a few other dlx' from memory.
At this point I just need the head to snap off one so I know which to take back.
I'm going to do some more unplugged feel testing then run them both in front of my tube amp at gig level awhile. Hopefully something will shake loose.
da hy
12:40 PM
Thanks so much for the feedback. Yea investment is silly to try and predict. I have a few old guitars that have become fairly valuable but its fickle. You've helped me get over that idea. Both these guitars have a lot of the soul but it seems bringing it out can't be pushed too well. Practice with the dlx went very well. Better than the '14 but I think that was just luck and mood so far.
Actually most of my guitars are special to me in one or more ways. But I get attached to easily to things and want to keep too much. I'm pretty sure I'm a half step away from being on one of those tv shows.
So I need to get more selective. I've also proven that my playing style just isn't that picky. Higher action, bigger frets and I can make any tone work. Much of my collection is for unique looks. No collection of LPB teles for me. But aside from 1 that I still have hopes for, they all play well to excellent and have at least some fairly unique voice and hopefully feel. I also demand they have beautiful wood. A few are a holding place until I can strip them of find a pretty wood version of it.
My 2013 Studio is like that. Its vintage sunburst vintage gloss. It was a killer deal ordered online. Still it has to play and feel great and minimally show some skin. Well its a great guitar but just hint of birdeye. If it was black or white or had lousy frets I'd have rejected it at even half the price. But at the current prices its worth a few bucks to get some interest in the top. Assuming I can sell the 13 at break even. I just don't think I have any interest in $2k+ guitars. I'd just feel stupid. I know most $1000 strats feel dumb to me. Plus I would be too paranoid to take it anywhere. And if I caught anyone taking it there would probably be a death involved. I guess value is just too ingrained into my psyche to enjoy, "waste". Its why the government makes me so pissed off sometimes I can't see straight. I work hard for my money, I can't waste it and won't have it wasted by force. I've never bought into the higher price = better. /rant
But then at one time is was highly unlikely I'd buy a $1000 guitar but here I am. Like I said point me to the guitar that makes me play like MSG or SRV and I'd dump everything I own. So I'm not miserable with my collection. Many I bought to try a certain feature or concept. Or just because it was pretty, had good bone structure and was crazy cheap. Many have grown on me but I do need to cut back. I could be happy just with my old $200 strat or even my newer $89 callisto jr or my $700 '13 lp or my $160 '04 sg. But I'm happier with all of them.
03:20 PM
they both look like studios to me?
da hy
03:30 PM
They are actually. The one on the right is a studio deluxe II with