Sturdy laptop? (was Mini PCs?)

PoodlesAgain · Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:03 pm

My second desktop is an HP Compaq, so that right there tells you how old it is.

A replacement?
Well, there is always the Dell refurb home user desktops, an i3 or i5 for around three sixty.
Now, as I do not need to hang much off this unit, why shouldn't I look into mini PCs?

I think, on the old board, one of us was a big proponent?

Opinions?

uwmcscott · Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:05 pm

I just bought a refurb Dell SFF optiplex 7020 for my younger son to turn into a gaming PC. It was a core i5, 16gb ram and a 500g SDD drive for $250. He is using his$$ to buy a beefed up gaming graphics card but it runs excellent as is for now. As a standard office/productivity/internet PC it would be more than enough as-is

PoodlesAgain · Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:45 pm

I did look at these this afternoon, on the Dell refurb. Is it where you got yours?
Prices i saw were more than that, but Dell prices fluctuate!

Also, many have only DisplayPort connectors.

uwmcscott · Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:32 pm

I got this one on Amazon via one of their official refurb partners. Yes, display port only but most monitors still have at least one. And in this application he’s getting a separate video card eventually anyway

OMB · Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:36 am

I used to run Chromebox's and Windows boxes. They worked fine mostly but there was some issue I can't recall. If I only wanted something for light use it is hard to beat a Chromebook. Cheap, reliable and I have never experienced the Blue Window of Death...which is a good thing.

Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:56 am

I always thought "the blue screen of death" was owned by, patented, copyrighted, trademarked, etc. by Microsoft so Chromebooks shouldn't be able to do it (like Linux boxes or Macs can't.)

PoodlesAgain · Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:19 am

Nope, no Chromebook.
Whatever I get needs to be able to go to Linux, sooner or later, or intermittently via disk swap, house rule!

Computers are appliances (to me) so I want full flexibility.

I do think mini PC, but wonder about reliability, lots of stuff generating heat in a small box - I could mod that I guess, install naked in a cookie tin box?

Rollin Hand · Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:37 pm

If what I understand is correct, most mini PCs use laptop components, so why not a laptop? That's what I use for work, with a monitor, keyboard and mouse added. Works fine.

honyock · Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:08 pm

The Dell Mini PCs are garbage. They basically are only good as data collection or stuff like that. They build up heat and would kill themselves in 1/4 the time our other proper desktops would.

All the drawbacks of a laptops without the benefits.

OMB · Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:23 pm

PoodlesAgain wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:19 am Nope, no Chromebook.
Whatever I get needs to be able to go to Linux, sooner or later, or intermittently via disk swap, house rule!

Computers are appliances (to me) so I want full flexibility.

I do think mini PC, but wonder about reliability, lots of stuff generating heat in a small box - I could mod that I guess, install naked in a cookie tin box?

Chromebooks can run Linux these days...

PoodlesAgain · Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:40 pm

Rollin Hand wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:37 pm If what I understand is correct, most mini PCs use laptop components, so why not a laptop? That's what I use for work, with a monitor, keyboard and mouse added. Works fine.

I have a number of laptop candidates here!
Can a laptop onboard video bits drive a 27" monitor to its full glory?
How to test and find the limit? (I can tweak drives and stuff, but never "got" video stuff!)

@OMB, Chromebook and Linux.
Oh, I see... a mutli-step operation.
How will this fare with a rolling release flavor of linux?
Fun project, but too many ends to crack and needing fixes, I would think.

Rollin Hand · Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:11 pm

PoodlesAgain wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:40 pm
Rollin Hand wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:37 pm If what I understand is correct, most mini PCs use laptop components, so why not a laptop? That's what I use for work, with a monitor, keyboard and mouse added. Works fine.
I have a number of laptop candidates here!
Can a laptop onboard video bits drive a 27" monitor to its full glory?
How to test and find the limit? (I can tweak drives and stuff, but never "got" video stuff!)

@OMB, Chromebook and Linux.
Oh, I see... a mutli-step operation.
How will this fare with a rolling release flavor of linux?
Fun project, but too many ends to crack and needing fixes, I would think.

That is outside my realm of knowledge. It does work for my 24-inch monitor via HDMI, but I am not gaming or anything, just working.

LancerTheGreat · Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:44 pm

mickey wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:56 am I always thought "the blue screen of death" was owned by, patented, copyrighted, trademarked, etc. by Microsoft so Chromebooks shouldn't be able to do it (like Linux boxes or Macs can't.)

*coughs in kernel panic*

PoodlesAgain · Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:14 pm

OK, change of pace, new subject "sturdy laptop?"

Spouse is hard on her laptops, mostly broken screen hinges (and wifi) over time.
I can use her current, semi-broken one as a desktop instead of mini PC (which was orig, query).

Need for sturdy laptop suggestions...!!

uwmcscott · Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:48 pm

Driving external monitors ( especially HD ones ) with a laptop is a hardware thing for the most part. I'd recommend a docking station with it's own built in video hardware. Having said that, be prepeared to wait a long time - the ones we usually order from HP here at work are 8-12 months out right now.

If you want all the things you mention above - a ruggedized laptop with the ability to drive HD externa monitors, be prepared to spend at least 2 grand, probably a lot more. And also be prepared to wait - the chipset shortage is also putting most laptops ( and desktops ) out several months.

PoodlesAgain · Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:02 pm

No, no that.

Spouse retires her Asus semi-broken laptop, which becomes my new, casual spare CPU (for now).
We buy her a comparable model laptop, with touchscreen, which should last a few years like the current one.

Casual test on kitchen table says her old one can drive my 27" monitor.
Not hard-core work setup, good enough, until it (or I) dies.

She wants to stay with touchscreen. I see some touch "gaming" Asus available at bestbuy.

uwmcscott · Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:28 pm

PoodlesAgain wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:02 pm She wants to stay with touchscreen. I see some touch "gaming" Asus available at bestbuy.

the dell XPS series woudl fit that bill with a touchscreen, I have an XPS 15 that ive had for about 4 years and still running strong. Might be able to find a reman of those now, have not looked myself. That is what I am using to type this message with

Mossman · Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:44 am

I've been running a laptop as a desktop since about 2008. I buy off-lease business laptops because they're usually over-powered flagship machines that are no more than 3 years old, so they're still pretty powerful. For example; the laptop I'm using right now is an HP Elitebook with an i7 processor (I don't recall which generation), 16GB of RAM, and a 500GB SSD. I couldn't tell you what kind of video card it has (if it's not integrated), but editing video is as smooth and slick as can be (which is where most laptops hit a brick wall). I don't do much (any) gaming on this computer, but I'm sure it can handle the higher frame-rates and resolutions (just not 4K). It was made in 2015 and was top of the line at the time. When I bought it in 2018 it was still pretty high-spec and it still runs like a top. I feel no need to upgrade.

Since these are leased business machines that have to be returned after three years, they're usually pretty well cared for. Mine looked brand new when I got it. The best part is; they cost a fraction of the price they did when they were new, and about half what you'd pay for a new laptop with similar specs. The Elitebook cost about $1,800 in 2015, and I paid $350 for mine. There was no way I could have gotten a a new machine with those specs for that price.

In terms of durability, HP says the Elitebooks are made to Mil-Spec. Mine never leaves the house, and stays hidden under a monitor riser, so I haven't subjected it to any abuse, but it feels sturdy and premium. The laptop I had before this one was a Dell Precision, and that thing was like a tank. All metal and very hefty, with a 17.3" screen. I wouldn't want to have to lug it around everywhere, but as a desktop, I didn't care.

I used to to use a dock, but with the last two laptops, I haven't felt like I've needed one. Both of those machines had/have all the I/O I needed, and since I don't ever take them anywhere, I don't mind keeping everything plugged directly into the laptop.

Flatline · Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:05 am

Mossman wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:44 am I've been running a laptop as a desktop since about 2008. I buy off-lease business laptops because they're usually over-powered flagship machines that are no more than 3 years old, so they're still pretty powerful. For example; the laptop I'm using right now is an HP Elitebook with an i7 processor (I don't recall which generation), 16GB of RAM, and a 500GB SSD. I couldn't tell you what kind of video card it has (if it's not integrated), but editing video is as smooth and slick as can be (which is where most laptops hit a brick wall). I don't do much (any) gaming on this computer, but I'm sure it can handle the higher frame-rates and resolutions (just not 4K). It was made in 2015 and was top of the line at the time. When I bought it in 2018 it was still pretty high-spec and it still runs like a top. I feel no need to upgrade.

Since these are leased business machines that have to be returned after three years, they're usually pretty well cared for. Mine looked brand new when I got it. The best part is; they cost a fraction of the price they did when they were new, and about half what you'd pay for a new laptop with similar specs. The Elitebook cost about $1,800 in 2015, and I paid $350 for mine. There was no way I could have gotten a a new machine with those specs for that price.

In terms of durability, HP says the Elitebooks are made to Mil-Spec. Mine never leaves the house, and stays hidden under a monitor riser, so I haven't subjected it to any abuse, but it feels sturdy and premium. The laptop I had before this one was a Dell Precision, and that thing was like a tank. All metal and very hefty, with a 17.3" screen. I wouldn't want to have to lug it around everywhere, but as a desktop, I didn't care.

I used to to use a dock, but with the last two laptops, I haven't felt like I've needed one. Both of those machines had/have all the I/O I needed, and since I don't ever take them anywhere, I don't mind keeping everything plugged directly into the laptop.

Do you have a particular source for purchasing these or are you finding them on Ebay / Amazon? I've always tried to look for these and never found a good reliable source that wasn't charging nearly new prices.

Mossman · Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:57 am

Flatline wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:05 am Do you have a particular source for purchasing these or are you finding them on Ebay / Amazon? I've always tried to look for these and never found a good reliable source that wasn't charging nearly new prices.

I got the last two from ebay. You just have to make sure it's an off-lease machine, and not just a refurb (used). There's a number of other places where you can get them too. I think New Egg sells off lease computers. I can't think of anything else off the top of my head, but I usually just google "off lease laptops", and I get a bunch of sources.

PoodlesAgain · Sat Jun 26, 2021 8:32 am

I like the laptop path.
One concern though: when large external monitor is first hooked up to laptop, it runs at the system native resolution, before modifying the figures, and I am afraid of driving the large monitor to harmful settings, even briefly.

Am I paranoid? (...don't answer that! And yes, I don't know sh^t about video)

I understand that once set, I can just disable the laptop screen and then all is well, but...

Sat Jun 26, 2021 8:46 am

I've always used the rule of thumb: you don't hurt stuff by UNDERdriving it, you destroy stuff by OVERdriving it.
I'm guessing your old laptop's specs are well within what a large monitor will handle.

uwmcscott · Sat Jun 26, 2021 1:48 pm

PoodlesAgain wrote: ↑Sat Jun 26, 2021 8:32 am I like the laptop path.
One concern though: when large external monitor is first hooked up to laptop, it runs at the system native resolution, before modifying the figures, and I am afraid of driving the large monitor to harmful settings, even briefly.

Am I paranoid? (...don't answer that! And yes, I don't know sh^t about video)

I understand that once set, I can just disable the laptop screen and then all is well, but...

If you are using HDMI or Display port, there is communication happening between both devices before any video signal ever gets displayed - that's why your PC will automatically adjust to whatever the optimal resolution might be. So if for reason there was an incompatibility between the 2 devices, you'd simply get no signal at all.

That's also why it takes so long for the display to sync up - all of that digital handshaking going on in the background. There is also HDCP/copyright protection handshaking and all sorts of other stuff happening.

PoodlesAgain · Sat Jun 26, 2021 3:55 pm

Ah, I forgot the

Uwmcscott Rule:
You can hook up anything to anything, and it does not emit smoke in the first 15 seconds, you are golden!

Seriously, thanks for the details.

BTW, I hooked up my working 27" to my laptop which was fine (except for a minor Linux quirk), then back to my desktop video card, and since, I swear I cannot seem to restore my color balance to "just perfect".. Annoying!