update: Guitar Center Files for Chapter 11

[golem]

@toomanycats They've been on the path to bankruptcy for a long time. It's amazing they made it this long. The local shop in Bridgeton has one guy I like (assuming he still works there), the three involved with the "giving the finger to customers" incident, and a bunch of other people I can't complain about. In general, I don't think highly of them after selling me a broken PRS 513 (which they acknowledged they knew was broken when I returned it).

edited: grammar and additional context

[Mossman]

I vaguely recollect when this post I then asked if they could discount one of the two on the floor, since they are both floor models that have clearly been used, and not necessarily tended to. The answer was "No." Again, these guys were cool, and I understand that their hands may be tied, but the answer was still "No discount."


The thing that leaves an impression on me after leaving Guitar Center is the apathy. Like I said, those guys are friendly, and cool, and accommodating . . . but it's like they could care less if I bought anything or not. It's like they're going through the motions, maybe worn down by the monotony of it all, I don't know. Like I said, these are just my personal observations.

I remember when I was shopping for a CV '50s Tele (which started as a quest for a '52 AVRI, oddly enough), and every one they had at each of the three GCs in my area was chipped, dinged and shop-worn. At each store they claimed they didn't have any more in inventory, and each of them refused to knock so much as a dime off the price for the damage. So I called my Sweetwater rep and he knocked 13% off a brand new, unblemished guitar.

GC sales staff don't work on commission, so they have no incentive to sell, and since GC had adopted a "no haggle" policy several years ago, they're unable to negotiate price even if they wanted to. It's absolutely mind-boggling to me that they haven't figured out that this policy is killing sales and driving potential customers to their competition.

Guitar Center's problems are of their own making. I feel zero sympathy for them.

[nomadh]

GC will price match anything last time I heard. And seemed to be willing to make a deal for wear and tear. The used stuff seems more locked in stone although I bought a used cab over the phone and the guy found a problem on the output jack so noted it and knocked a few $ off.

[LightWingStudios]

Moodys is reporting that GC is $1.3 BILLION in the hole.

Yumpi' Yiminy!

[Mossman]

GC will price match anything last time I heard. And seemed to be willing to make a deal for wear and tear. The used stuff seems more locked in stone although I bought a used cab over the phone and the guy found a problem on the output jack so noted it and knocked a few $ off.

GC would sometimes match a price if you could hang a legit competitor's coupon or a sale price over their heads. But just saying: "my Sweetwater rep quoted me a price of $XXX" never got me any leverage. Nor have I (or anyone I know) ever gotten them to discount a damaged guitar in store... And I always ask.

Used prices are fixed because their margins are very narrow, and you're unlikely to find a lower price. GC always got all of my used business, and I've gotten many good deals over the years, but before SW was compelled to start collecting tax, GC never had a chance of matching, let alone beating Sweetwater's final prices on new gear.

[mighty_duck]

Used prices are fixed because their margins are very narrow, and you're unlikely to find a lower price.

I'm not sure I agree here. When I brought in used gear, they offered me about half of the lowest going rate, even for comparable stuff on GC used. So their margins are close to 2X .
Also, they would not budge on price, whether they were competitive or not. It was policy.

They do often misprice stuff, and that's where you can get really good deals.

[Gear_Junky]

I've haggled with them twice, after ordering online. One was new (my bullet tele), the other was used (my vm jazzmaster). I got a sizable chunk back each time. It took several reps, going up the chain of command and being firm (but always polite, no need to be adversarial). I explained to them that if I return it, they have to eat the shipping both ways AND still lose money trying to sell the item in its true condition. They realize it's a win/win to let me keep the item and issue a partial refund. And I'm 100% honest about the issues - photos and all. The world is your b-stock

[Mossman]

Used prices are fixed because their margins are very narrow, and you're unlikely to find a lower price.

I'm not sure I agree here. When I brought in used gear, they offered me about half of the lowest going rate, even for comparable stuff on GC used. So their margins are close to 2X .
Also, they would not budge on price, whether they were competitive or not. It was policy.

They do often misprice stuff, and that's where you can get really good deals.

GC pays 60% of whatever they think they can sell it for, as a general rule. You also have to remember that they have to pay someone to process it, take pictures of it, post it on the website, etc. Guitar Center won't even let their employees wipe the dust off of the used gear they take in, because it cuts into profit too much... And as long as you have merchandise hanging on the wall, it's costing you money. That 40% isn't pure profit.

In my experience, GCs used prices are about as good as you'll find... And I'm a die-hard bargain hunter.

[Mossman]

I've haggled with them twice, after ordering online. One was new (my bullet tele), the other was used (my vm jazzmaster). I got a sizable chunk back each time. It took several reps, going up the chain of command and being firm (but always polite, no need to be adversarial). I explained to them that if I return it, they have to eat the shipping both ways AND still lose money trying to sell the item in its true condition. They realize it's a win/win to let me keep the item and issue a partial refund. And I'm 100% honest about the issues - photos and all. The world is your b-stock

That's not really haggling, though... Haggling takes place before money changes hands. Asking for a discount due to undisclosed damage after the fact is not the same thing.

[Gear_Junky]

I've haggled with them twice, after ordering online. One was new (my bullet tele), the other was used (my vm jazzmaster). I got a sizable chunk back each time. It took several reps, going up the chain of command and being firm (but always polite, no need to be adversarial). I explained to them that if I return it, they have to eat the shipping both ways AND still lose money trying to sell the item in its true condition. They realize it's a win/win to let me keep the item and issue a partial refund. And I'm 100% honest about the issues - photos and all. The world is your b-stock

That's not really haggling, though... Haggling takes place before money changes hands. Asking for a discount due to undisclosed damage after the fact is not the same thing.

Of course, of course. That's just me adapting to the circumstances. Maybe I'll add that in every case what I ordered was already a bargain (otherwise I wouldn't've ordered it)

[Rollin Hand]

I vaguely recollect when this post was originally made, though I didn't participate in it until now, or even pay much attention. As has been mentioned, "Guitar center going out of business" has become equivalent to saying "The sky is falling," so forgive me if I ignored it.

Without knowing about yesterdays news of the bankruptcy I went into Guitar Center in the afternoon. I've been looking for a lower watt tube amp that's not as heavy to lug as my 65 amps head and 2x12 rig, and without as much power as my Peavey Classic 30 combo. I have in mind something in the 15 watt range, all tube, 12" speaker, preferably class A. Looking online I saw that the closest Guitar Center location to me has a used Supro Blues King amp on the floor. It ticked a lot of the boxes and had pretty good reviews. My anecdotal observations on my visit to Guitar Center might be relevant as to why they are in trouble.

As soon as I walked back to the amp section I saw the used Supro on a low table along with all the other amps. I immediately noticed that the power was on. Nobody was around. How long had it been on? Five minutes? All day? No way of telling. I looked down the row of other amps, Vox, PRS, Fender, Orange . . . and lots of them were on too. Again, for how long I had no idea. This bothered me. These mass produced amps are made with budget components that have a shelf life. It just seems that keeping them turned on for extended periods would effect future life expectancy of some of these parts.

The employees were very friendly and I have no complaints about them whatsoever. You guys know how it is when you're in a music store, and everybody instantly become your "bro," cause, you know, were all guitar players, we're surrounded by gear, and everything is cool.

I asked if I could try the Supro and they asked what guitar I wanted to use. I told them one of their Gibson Les Paul Standard '50s, which they happily accommodated me with. They then left me alone to do my thing. I've got to admit, I wasn't impressed with the Supro. It sounded dark and stiff with an FET overdrive circuit that sounded very solid state to me. It just didn't inspire my playing. I then unplugged the LP and proceeded down the row trying some other likely candidates. Below is a list of what I tried and my observations:

Fender Blues Junior Lacquered Tweed w/Jenson c12N. I liked it immediately. I'm a Marshall type guy, so trying something different is appealing to me. This amp was so dynamic, lively, and breathes. It sings, it growls, purrs, and shimmers. When I think American tube amp, this is the sound in my head.

Fender Blues Junior IV. I tried two version of this model, one with an Eminence Cannibus Rex and one with a Celestion. I liked it much less than the Lacquered Tweed III. It was darker, flat, and less alive, simple as that. Sorta a compressed tone to my ears.

A used Orange Tiny Terror TT15C12. This amp is a beast and has way more gain than I need, though I like it immensely. As soon as I plugged it there was no mistaking that here was a British voiced amp. It's ballsy, responsive, loud, and full sounding. Simple as can be with three knobs, 15 watts, class A, and built like a tank. If I needed a low watt amp for hard rock and classic metal this would be the winner, hands down. The thing is, what I'm in the market for is something for classic rock, blues, and outlaw country. The Orange could probably cover that ground at lower gain settings, but the Fender Blues Junior would probably do it better.

So it appeared the Blues Junior Lacquered Tweed w/Jenson c12N was the winner of the bunch. There were two of them on the floor set up for playing, one of them them looking significantly dirtier and handled than the other. Knowing that these amps get left on for who knows how long, I asked if they had one in an unopened box, you know, otherwise known as a "new" one. They looked and came back with the reply of "No." I then asked if they could discount one of the two on the floor, since they are both floor models that have clearly been used, and not necessarily tended to. The answer was "No." Again, these guys were cool, and I understand that their hands may be tied, but the answer was still "No discount."

So that was it, they lost the sale. I actually wanted to buy an amp from them too. I spent all that time trying gear on their floor, putting even more wear on already worn amps, and for lack of throwing me a little bone, just enough to offset the tax on a piece of gear that was not in the strict sense "new," they blew the sale.

At some point today I'll probably end up ordering a new one in the box from Sweetwater, in which case I should have it at least in time for Saturday's gig.

The thing that leaves an impression on me after leaving Guitar Center is the apathy. Like I said, those guys are friendly, and cool, and accommodating . . . but it's like they could care less if I bought anything or not. It's like they're going through the motions, maybe worn down by the monotony of it all, I don't know. Like I said, these are just my personal observations.

...and the next day, TMC walked into his local pawn shop and got a Dumble for $75.

[Gear_Junky]

Saw a mention on a financial/investment news aggregator about this, filed Saturday, I think. Chapter 11. Which is reorganization.

"The Plan is intended to allow Guitar Center and its related brands (including Music & Arts, Musician’s Friend, Woodwind Brasswind and AVDG) to continue to operate in the normal course while the transaction is implemented. As a result of the Plan, Guitar Center will continue to meet its financial obligations to vendors, suppliers, and employees, and intends to make payments in full to these parties without interruption in the ordinary course of business."

This means business as usual, creditors get to shut up and get in line. It's not for nothing that it's known as "protection" - the entity is protected from creditors demanding payment.

So breathe in (or breathe out). Shop like it's 2019... well, maybe not, just kidding.

[golem]

@Gear_Junky chapter 11 made the most sense. It's possible some stores could be closed, but GC is still alive and kicking for now.

[Gear_Junky]

@Gear_Junky chapter 11 made the most sense. It's possible some stores could be closed, but GC is still alive and kicking for now.

Yep and store closures can happen without any bankruptcy or even financial troubles - i.e. if locations aren't profitable. Just look at Starbucks that used to have multiple stores on different corners of the same intersections.

[golem]

Yup @Gear_Junky and I think a lot of people wonder why they kept on opening more stores with so much debt while not being profitable. Unfortunately, guitars aren't quite as profitable and addictive as coffee. Don't tell @tobijohn .

[Razzle]

I’ve always spoken fondly of guitar center because in my town it’s about the only place around where you can actually go play guitar.

However last month they FKD me on a deal, they didn’t process the PayPal transaction and it got hung up. I called the store and they said they couldn’t sell it to me (direct cc) because it was sold (ahem, to me) but they’d hold it for me until the transaction went through. I called them back after the weekend because the transaction didn’t go through, and they said they can’t sell the guitar to me because I sold it to someone else.

They can kiss my butt and go under as far as I’m concerned.

[Gear_Junky]

Yup @Gear_Junky and I think a lot of people wonder why they kept on opening more stores with so much debt while not being profitable. Unfortunately, guitars aren't quite as profitable and addictive as coffee. Don't tell @tobijohn .

Actually under some types of bankruptcy it's normal to not only continue business but to continue trying to make things more effective, to expand business as it were, even if the company is eventually going to liquidate. But GC is not (at this point) going under at all. One way to make profit is to raise prices. Another is to cut costs. And then another is to tell creditors to get lost. This may or may not mean creditors don't get paid back, but it may lower interest payments and/or extend due date horizons. Profitability, solvency and liquidity are different things. Even a profitable business can get in trouble and go under if they are insolvent or have liquidity issues.

[Mossman]

I’ve always spoken fondly of guitar center because in my town it’s about the only place around where you can actually go play guitar.

However last month they FKD me on a deal, they didn’t process the PayPal transaction and it got hung up. I called the store and they said they couldn’t sell it to me (direct cc) because it was sold (ahem, to me) but they’d hold it for me until the transaction went through. I called them back after the weekend because the transaction didn’t go through, and they said they can’t sell the guitar to me because I sold it to someone else.

They can kiss my butt and go under as far as I’m concerned.

The same thing happened to me when I bought a used MIDI keyboard from them over the phone. In my case; the sale went through, and I got charged for it, but they didn't take it off the floor, and somebody strolled into the store over the weekend and bought it. The worst part is; they never contacted me to let me know. I had to call them after a few days had gone by and I hadn't received a shipping notification. Then I had to wait a few more days for my card to be refunded.

This is far too common an occurrence. Guitar Center is notorious for being terribly disorganized when it comes to their used online sales. I can kinda understand it when somebody buys something on the website, and the store doesn't know it yet, and they end up selling the item to an in-store customer. The website is not tied in with each store's inventory system (thought it should be), and you can't check the status of every used item, every minute of every day... but I talked to a HUMAN, who took my credit card number, and all my information, and processed the sale! They were aware that the item was no longer available, and should have removed it from the sales floor, or at least their in-store system should have removed it from inventory, so that if someone did try to buy it, it would come up as "sold" when they scanned it.

You hear about this happening all the time, and it's been happening for as long as GC has sold used gear via the internet. You would think they would have implemented a better system by now.