A Guitar And Gear Support Forum

Posted: **Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:46 pm**

I have been working on guitar projects a bit over the last few weeks, and am doing more soldering. This has led me to wonder how in blazes one gets that nice, clean solder joint on the back of the pot. I can't figure it out, and all of my beads look awful. I am using a cheap solder station cranked to 11, and it's fine for everything else. Thanks!

Posted: **Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:16 pm**

I don't do a lot of soldering, but having a "helping hands" does in fact help. Flux is a must. "Tinning" the wire. Technique=heat the wire (not the pot), put solder on wire not solder iron tip, remove solder iron. Enough is enough, too much is too much.
Practice. That seems like a smart aleck answer, but it is not. If it's been a while for me, I'll grap a small piece of scrap wire and a metal something to have a practice run and it also confirms that my iron is at the correct temp.
Personally my life is a balance of caffeine and nicotine. Again, enough is enough and too much is too much.

*Edit*
Forgot, clean soldering iron tip, I keep a like metal scrunchy type thing.

Posted: **Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:58 pm**

The primary principle in soldering is to never apply the iron directly to solder, except for tinning the tip of the iron. Apply heat to the parts being joined. And any movement after solder is applied results in a "cold" joint (that frosty look).

Posted: **Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:09 pm**

Ok, so hold the wire to the back of the pot with the iron, and apply solder to the wire. Next pickup swap I have to give that a try. Does it work with multiple wires too?

This is all great info. I am attempting this wiring to put actives in my Spad.

Posted: **Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:27 pm**

If you over heat the pot it will be ruined. 1 of the things today is that pots are junk compared to old style pots. I've been military certified since 1980, been soldering years before that. I never really use flux. Every solder has a flux amount, usually not printed on the spool. If it's 1 % it won't work for dirty metal like pots or old parts. You need 2-3% flux, if not you might have to add. You can scratch the surface or use a tiny wire brush or dremel to get it shiny clean. My iron sits about 640-650 degrees and i do crank it up to 750 for pots and 850 soldering to a chassis for grounds. Use real lead solder, not that lead free crap. Get in get out. If you are up to temp, placing the wire on the pot with the iron tip and add solder, it should flow out nice and quick

Posted: **Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:31 pm**

Disclaimer - I've never done guitar electronics specifically, but this is similar to work I've done in other applications over many years.

Make as much of a mechanical joint as you can first (run the wire through the hole in the pot tab). Use an alligator clip to hold things in position if that would help. Feel free to use a slight bit of flux on the tip of the solder, that helps carry all heat you are applying into the joint. Be alert for the small signs of heat increasing. Eventually you will be able to figure out when the solder is about to flow. And once it starts to flow, apply just enough solder to fill the joint. You somewhat have to anticipate that because it will be over in about a second. Also, if the solder isn't going where you expect, move the iron. Solder flows toward heat.

Posted: **Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:32 pm**

I use the "helping hards" to hold the wire/s where I want them, not use the soldering iron to hold the wire down. That might be your problem, especially if your wire wants to spring up, then your getting solder on the iron, then it gets frustrating (if Canadians actually experience frustration?(cross post bonus)).
I tin my wire/s and then "dry fit" them where I want them using needle nose pliers for slight bends so that when I am soldiering it is basically hot metal glue (in my mind) but everything starts where I want it to end.

It seems like I'm selling helping hands, I am not, before I spent the $5-$12 on them I would bend and manipulate and use needle nose vise grips to hold thing in place.

Yes it works with multiple wires.

Reread Mozz's post, he has forgotten more about soldering than I will even know.

Posted: **Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:03 pm**

+1 for a set of helping hands, buy em or make em, I had rigged some up with a small block of wood, some wire and some tiny alligator clips. I need to find those lol.

Posted: **Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:02 am**

How do you get the helping ands to hold the wires on the back of the pot?

For soldering to the lugs, I put the wire through, the bend it back and crimp with needle nose so it connects and stays there, and add the solder.

As for the current project, it is on hold until some more wire arrives. It never occurred to me that I might have to use more than came with the pickups!

Posted: **Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:29 am**

So just to be clear, if we worked at a soldiering factory, [mention]mozz[/mention] would crank out 360 soldier joints per hour and I would do about 6. I am going to soldier maybe four times a year and I'm not aspiring to work fast or efficient. I'm also going to waste countless millimeters of wire where [mention]mozz[/mention] is going to keep operating costs down.
Just do it. I will strip maybe a centimeter of wire so that I can use needle nose pliers to manipulate that striped wire, put a kink (a U that is as large as the tip of the needle nose pliers close to the insulation) that I can lay on the Pot and snip the excess off before soldering the joint.
Imagine, if you will, I am not dealing with a straight wire but rather making it look hockey stick (ish).
Practice. Take a wide head nail in a board, or nail a bottle cap to a scrap piece of wood.
I spend 99% of my soldier time preparing to apply hot metal glue.

Posted: **Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:38 pm**

+1 for @mozz . I use a Weller WC100 on '3' with a 1mm to 0.5 mm tip. Make sure the iron tip and all surfaces to be soldered are clean and scuffed.

Mechanically join the two surfaces to be welded. Wipe the soldering tip on a damp sponge and put a little dab of solder on the tip (called 'tinning'). This helps the solder flow. Place the tip against both surfaces and apply solder to the surfaces where the tip is touching. Note that if the surfaces are unequal mass, lean the tip a bit more to the higher mass item. As soon as it flows, remove the tip and don't move the soldered items until you see it haze over. Don't blow on it to help it, as this can create a weak joint.

Joint should come out shiny and even. Practice on scrap to get a feel .

Posted: **Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:42 pm**

Helping hands are one of those things that I didn't think I needed for the longest time, and then when I got one, I wished I had bought it sooner.

I'm a lot better at soldering now than I was when I first started modding and building guitars, but getting the solder to adhere to the back of the pot still give me fits sometimes. I follow the standard procedure, and scuff the back of the pot up before soldering, but sometimes it still doesn't want to stick. I used to think it was because I used cheap, Radio Shack irons, but I've had a decent soldering station for a while now that I run at about 800°. I never gave a thought about flux, though... And I never paid attention to whether it was lead-free or not. Turns out the solder I've been using for guitar work is lead free. The finer gauge stuff that I use for computer work is not, and that stuff flows real nice and is easier to work with, now that I think of it.

Posted: **Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:49 am**

Mossman wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:42 pm Helping hands are one of those things that I didn't think I needed for the longest time, and then when I got one, I wished I had bought it sooner.

I'm a lot better at soldering now than I was when I first started modding and building guitars, but getting the solder to adhere to the back of the pot still give me fits sometimes. I follow the standard procedure, and scuff the back of the pot up before soldering, but sometimes it still doesn't want to stick. I used to think it was because I used cheap, Radio Shack irons, but I've had a decent soldering station for a while now that I run at about 800°. I never gave a thought about flux, though... And I never paid attention to whether it was lead-free or not. Turns out the solder I've been using for guitar work is lead free. The finer gauge stuff that I use for computer work is not, and that stuff flows real nice and is easier to work with, now that I think of it.

Remember typewriters?
Get yourself a "typewriter eraser" then use it to polish the back of a pot prior to soldering and you'll never have a bad solder joint on one again.

Posted: **Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:02 am**

Probably also good to polish frets?

Posted: **Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:06 am**

mozz wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:02 am Probably also good to polish frets?

DOH! Never thought of that!

Posted: **Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:36 am**

I just mentioned that because I just got a set of 3 polishers from AliExpress, they work fine but I'm betting you can do the same with 1 pencil eraser and 1 ink eraser.

Posted: **Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:11 pm**

I can't solder worth a shit.

No matter how many times I try.

Posted: **Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:06 pm**

I use cross locking tweezers (they stay closed / squeeze to open, more like clamps) and weight / pair of pliers, whatever, to hold the wire against the back of the pot, or where you cant loop the wire through to make a good physical contact connection.

Works really well. Takes a bit of finagling to get it set up and steady though.

the cheapy set I got is like this but all 3 of mine are cross locking.

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:10 pm**

I have to second what Mozz said about lead free solder. The low temp lead free solder still requires about 140 degrees F more heat to melt than 60/40 or 63/37 leaded solder.
It's also much more prone to cracking and then there's metal growth/tin whiskers.

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:44 pm**

I guess I should update: I bought some paste flux at [mention]jam[/mention]'s insistence, and it does work and make a difference. I managed to get the guitar I was working on wired up.

Now the problem is I lost the nut. Once I get that found, I'll be able to get things set up and actually try my first guitar with active pickups!

Posted: **Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:56 am**

I don't see paste flux mentioned in the thread, hope is wasn't plumbing flux. That stuff is corrosive.

Posted: **Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:45 pm**

I don't know what kind of flux was used in the end, but a cleanup with alcohol and a Q-tip will solve any long-term effects of the excess flux, such as corrosion.

Posted: **Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:14 pm**

I don't know about that cleaning will help, it could be under the solder on the leads and such. It takes a while but it will corrode and is pretty nasty. It's a acid. I would no doubt find out exactly what kind of paste it was, electronic solder paste is not too common.

Posted: **Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:44 pm**

There's great answers given above. I used to hate soldering pots. I destroyed a few pots back when I first started soldering and I never felt like I got a good process down. The end product worked, but always looked ugly. I was admiring some of those premade harnesses and decided I could do better.

This is a great tutorial.

Posted: **Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:52 pm**

jam wrote: ↑Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:45 pm I don't know what kind of flux was used in the end, but a cleanup with alcohol and a Q-tip will solve any long-term effects of the excess flux, such as corrosion.

It was proper electronics flux, applied by dipping the tips of the wires in.

And I wasn't doing much of anything with the pots. I had wired the switch wrong, and needed to fix that, as well as wiring in a new jack. Had I known I could get a Switchcraft jack for a little under four bucks, I would have gone that way from word go.

I am learning throught this process, which is partly why I did it. One way of getting better at something is starting off lousy. Now I am a little better at things than lousy. More soldering to come.

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