Opinion: The death of the amp
It's great to see people converse in a friendly way on this topic. Financially, if you can get so many great sounds out of a single modeler, I think it's the way to go these days. It seems like every single day there's a new modeler on the market. I've been checking out the Ampero II Stomp that was released about a month ago, and it offers you a hell of a lot of great tones for $500.
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Rollin Hand
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Ok, I am coming from the position of a home player, no gigging.
On another guitar forum, I noted that for the home player modelling just makes more sense, and in a lot of ways it does. Instead of ine amp, and trying to make that work (which really isn't hard), you get a ton of amps that sound decent consistently and effortlessly. My modeler is an Eleven Rack, which is old tech but still sounds really good through my Edifier monitors. I am planning to learn to play with it a little more and download some patches. I have used amps minimally in the last year. In fact, I have recently considered going all modelling.
As well, they are eminently practical for touring musicians. All your needed tones in one box, no miking, no worries about tubes frying....easy, repeatable results every night.
By the same token, I just turned 50, and am thinking hard about buying my first Marshall (DSL 20) should the right deal come up.
And nothing sounds like big speakers moving air.....
I could probably sell enough gear to cover my costs on a Headrush speaker and a Helix LT or wait a hair for the Ampero II and get 2 Headrush speakers. But I like the amps I have too, and would feel like I was missing something if they weren't there..
No easy answers in this debate. So buy 'em both!
On another guitar forum, I noted that for the home player modelling just makes more sense, and in a lot of ways it does. Instead of ine amp, and trying to make that work (which really isn't hard), you get a ton of amps that sound decent consistently and effortlessly. My modeler is an Eleven Rack, which is old tech but still sounds really good through my Edifier monitors. I am planning to learn to play with it a little more and download some patches. I have used amps minimally in the last year. In fact, I have recently considered going all modelling.
As well, they are eminently practical for touring musicians. All your needed tones in one box, no miking, no worries about tubes frying....easy, repeatable results every night.
By the same token, I just turned 50, and am thinking hard about buying my first Marshall (DSL 20) should the right deal come up.
And nothing sounds like big speakers moving air.....
I could probably sell enough gear to cover my costs on a Headrush speaker and a Helix LT or wait a hair for the Ampero II and get 2 Headrush speakers. But I like the amps I have too, and would feel like I was missing something if they weren't there..
No easy answers in this debate. So buy 'em both!
"I'm not a sore loser. It's just that I prefer to win, and when I don't, I get furious."
- Ron Swanson
- Ron Swanson
You know, you never hear bassists having the "tube vs solid-state" debate... because in the bass world, solid-state amps have been king since the early '70s. We might wax nostalgic about the old Ampeg SVT (or; "Super Vacuum Tube") amps, but nobody wants to lug around a head that weighs 80 pounds, with FOURTEEN TUBES, that has to go through an 8x10 cabinet, and might CATCH FIRE half-way through your gig! That was pretty much the last gasp of the tube bass amp. Nothing needs to move more air than the bass, and as the '60s progressed and venues got bigger, and music (and guitar amps) got louder, tube amps just couldn't keep up. A lot of people don't realize that a bass amp needs to be about 10x more powerful than a guitar amp to be effective. When I was playing in bands, I would never dream of buying a stage amp that was less than 300 watts. Now you can get a bass amp that's about the size of your recording interface, and puts out 1,000 watts for about $600. You never hear bass players poo-pooing modelers, because we've always been in the solid-state camp, and (as has already been mentioned), it's not the modeler that moves air, it's the power amp and cab you plug it into.
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Did you mean a tube-driven microwave oven? They had those back in the '40s and '50s, I think.mickey wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:22 am Let us not forget that tube amps are some folks religion.
I thought tubes would be extinct by the year 2000, but they are still here
even tho they make no sense whatever except in extremely limited applications like high power RF transmitters.
I doubt that I will live to see a solid state microwave oven.
Finally escaping the People's Republic of Kalifornia!
BANNED BY MOMO
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A microwave oven is basically just a high power cavity magnetron oscillator feeding a resonant cavity on the output side of the power transformer.Mossman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 12:56 amDid you mean a tube-driven microwave oven? They had those back in the '40s and '50s, I think.mickey wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:22 am Let us not forget that tube amps are some folks religion.
I thought tubes would be extinct by the year 2000, but they are still here
even tho they make no sense whatever except in extremely limited applications like high power RF transmitters.
I doubt that I will live to see a solid state microwave oven.
All the controls, safety features, etc. are on the input side of the power transformer.
Gandalf the Intonationer
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andrewsrea
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I use Ampire in Presonus Studio One a lot. But for me, it is no replacement for the feel of a tube amp. Especially if you use the volume and tone knobs in your playing style.
In my experience, the models I've played are basically the same tone at different volumes, versus the tone character changes with a live amp.
In my experience, the models I've played are basically the same tone at different volumes, versus the tone character changes with a live amp.
Live life to the fullest! - Rob
I want to say that I agree. I feel it's a few things. It's hard to get the feel of the real amp and how it interacts with the controls through their full range. A lot of times it feels like you're getting an amp already in a recording rather than in front of you. It's a bit of a different experience if you're used to and enjoy having a tube amp in front of you.andrewsrea wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:13 pm
In my experience, the models I've played are basically the same tone at different volumes, versus the tone character changes with a live amp.
I do think they're perfectly usable live or for recording, but I won't blame anyone who prefers to use a tube amp for feeling that way. Especially in your case where you can mod and fix them.
Obviously not all amp sims/modelling is created equal. I think it's getting better all the time.
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redman
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In my opinion if God made anything better than a tube amp he kept it for himself.
Well,
I have a lot of thought on this subject. I've been using direct-tp-board gadgets and devices since the turn of the millenia. Still do. Love me some modelers. Currently making an album and been testing umpteen ways to record my guitars. And the fact is, without a proper acoustically good studio, good mics and helping hands, there really seems to be no way to get as good sounds from my classic marshall as I can get with Amplitube plugin. Even using my tiny Hotone Purple head and miking that I can get at least as good tones for most purposes much easier than my true tube amp.
BUT I'm still now going to use my Marshall for the tones.
Why is that? Well, it's because modelers are TOO good. It's very easy to get really great sounds on record. BUT the issue is that they're nigh perfect, and they're not ultimately MY sounds. I can tweak them, but they still sound like the creator of that plugin or emulator meant it to be.
However, with my Marshall, I'm pushed into creating my own sound and it becomes unique. Nobody has exactly that same sound, when I've miked and everything. Nobody. I spent hours last night experimenting with speaker emulators, load boxes, speakers and whatnot with my Marshall...and came up with a really great sound.
The thing is...when I solo those tracks that absolutely kill in the context for me...it sounds weird. Like too dark, has some odd space to it, too little gain and sparkle, when I compare it to plugins.
But in the context it's great, and there's something unique to it, to how it does breakup and how there are some small yelps and wails and you can hear pick klicks and screeches there...it's just far more alive and better. And since the guitar isn't super 3D wide and sparkling, it gives more room for the drums, and I don't have to have them all really loud.
And THAT is the issue with modelers. When all the sounds are really great and pushed and all, and combined with processed drum sounds and such...all the music starts to sound the same. It's all very in your face and aggeressive and tries to be noticed from the flow in Spotify etc...and it's like a neverending party and cake and candy. And if you just eat that, you get nauseous and soon want some solid basic meat and potatoes.
In the end, the only way to really create some unique sounds and have fun with it, is with real amps. Modelers are, even when they are larger than life and better than reality, still facsimiles of reality, and as such, always have this generic element to them.
I have a lot of thought on this subject. I've been using direct-tp-board gadgets and devices since the turn of the millenia. Still do. Love me some modelers. Currently making an album and been testing umpteen ways to record my guitars. And the fact is, without a proper acoustically good studio, good mics and helping hands, there really seems to be no way to get as good sounds from my classic marshall as I can get with Amplitube plugin. Even using my tiny Hotone Purple head and miking that I can get at least as good tones for most purposes much easier than my true tube amp.
BUT I'm still now going to use my Marshall for the tones.
Why is that? Well, it's because modelers are TOO good. It's very easy to get really great sounds on record. BUT the issue is that they're nigh perfect, and they're not ultimately MY sounds. I can tweak them, but they still sound like the creator of that plugin or emulator meant it to be.
However, with my Marshall, I'm pushed into creating my own sound and it becomes unique. Nobody has exactly that same sound, when I've miked and everything. Nobody. I spent hours last night experimenting with speaker emulators, load boxes, speakers and whatnot with my Marshall...and came up with a really great sound.
The thing is...when I solo those tracks that absolutely kill in the context for me...it sounds weird. Like too dark, has some odd space to it, too little gain and sparkle, when I compare it to plugins.
But in the context it's great, and there's something unique to it, to how it does breakup and how there are some small yelps and wails and you can hear pick klicks and screeches there...it's just far more alive and better. And since the guitar isn't super 3D wide and sparkling, it gives more room for the drums, and I don't have to have them all really loud.
And THAT is the issue with modelers. When all the sounds are really great and pushed and all, and combined with processed drum sounds and such...all the music starts to sound the same. It's all very in your face and aggeressive and tries to be noticed from the flow in Spotify etc...and it's like a neverending party and cake and candy. And if you just eat that, you get nauseous and soon want some solid basic meat and potatoes.
In the end, the only way to really create some unique sounds and have fun with it, is with real amps. Modelers are, even when they are larger than life and better than reality, still facsimiles of reality, and as such, always have this generic element to them.
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Real name: Antti Heikkinen Location: Finland
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http://www.mosfite.com (redirects to Google site)
Grunge lives!
Real name: Antti Heikkinen Location: Finland
Web presences:
https://www.facebook.com/mosfite/
https://www.youtube.com/@Mosfite
http://www.mosfite.com (redirects to Google site)
I don't really have a pony in this race, but I really understand what you said and how you said it.deeaa wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 4:04 am Well,
I have a lot of thought on this subject. I've been using direct-tp-board gadgets and devices since the turn of the millenia. Still do. Love me some modelers. Currently making an album and been testing umpteen ways to record my guitars. And the fact is, without a proper acoustically good studio, good mics and helping hands, there really seems to be no way to get as good sounds from my classic marshall as I can get with Amplitube plugin. Even using my tiny Hotone Purple head and miking that I can get at least as good tones for most purposes much easier than my true tube amp.
BUT I'm still now going to use my Marshall for the tones.
Why is that? Well, it's because modelers are TOO good. It's very easy to get really great sounds on record. BUT the issue is that they're nigh perfect, and they're not ultimately MY sounds. I can tweak them, but they still sound like the creator of that plugin or emulator meant it to be.
However, with my Marshall, I'm pushed into creating my own sound and it becomes unique. Nobody has exactly that same sound, when I've miked and everything. Nobody. I spent hours last night experimenting with speaker emulators, load boxes, speakers and whatnot with my Marshall...and came up with a really great sound.
The thing is...when I solo those tracks that absolutely kill in the context for me...it sounds weird. Like too dark, has some odd space to it, too little gain and sparkle, when I compare it to plugins.
But in the context it's great, and there's something unique to it, to how it does breakup and how there are some small yelps and wails and you can hear pick klicks and screeches there...it's just far more alive and better. And since the guitar isn't super 3D wide and sparkling, it gives more room for the drums, and I don't have to have them all really loud.
And THAT is the issue with modelers. When all the sounds are really great and pushed and all, and combined with processed drum sounds and such...all the music starts to sound the same. It's all very in your face and aggeressive and tries to be noticed from the flow in Spotify etc...and it's like a neverending party and cake and candy. And if you just eat that, you get nauseous and soon want some solid basic meat and potatoes.
In the end, the only way to really create some unique sounds and have fun with it, is with real amps. Modelers are, even when they are larger than life and better than reality, still facsimiles of reality, and as such, always have this generic element to them.
Maybe the only ones i have ever played wouldn't even be considered modelers, but, it seems, (as was said) there is no or slight interaction with the guitar. If you are going to digitally sample, model, or whatever the correct term is, a amp, you would need to sample it with your guitar volume on minimum 10 different settings. Then somehow get the modeler to know you've turned the volume down. Not just level wise but you change your guitars output impedance and that does effect how the first tube stage acts or reacts. The only way to do that would be to measure the real impedance and output level and somehow have the modeler react to those changes. Add a pedal in front of the amp and you've added another majorly complex set of variables such as phase and intermodulation distortion to the already complex guitar output.
Simplified, the early stuff i've toyed with makes any guitar you plug into it sound the same on the output. That makes having more than 1 guitar obsolete.
Simplified, the early stuff i've toyed with makes any guitar you plug into it sound the same on the output. That makes having more than 1 guitar obsolete.
AGF refugee
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Rollin Hand
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The GOOD modelers, it is hard to tell that it is a modeler. Even on my Eleven Rack, which is ancient at this point, there is a clear difference between pickups, guitars, etc. It's truly amazing.mozz wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 1:53 pm Maybe the only ones i have ever played wouldn't even be considered modelers, but, it seems, (as was said) there is no or slight interaction with the guitar. If you are going to digitally sample, model, or whatever the correct term is, a amp, you would need to sample it with your guitar volume on minimum 10 different settings. Then somehow get the modeler to know you've turned the volume down. Not just level wise but you change your guitars output impedance and that does effect how the first tube stage acts or reacts. The only way to do that would be to measure the real impedance and output level and somehow have the modeler react to those changes. Add a pedal in front of the amp and you've added another majorly complex set of variables such as phase and intermodulation distortion to the already complex guitar output.
Simplified, the early stuff i've toyed with makes any guitar you plug into it sound the same on the output. That makes having more than 1 guitar obsolete.
And that's why so many big name acts use AxeFX or Helix.
"I'm not a sore loser. It's just that I prefer to win, and when I don't, I get furious."
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lauramarie1024
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I have not played out in so long that I am more into small practice amps now, and with the technology, low volume with modeling capabilities matches my needs. I think there will always be a place for tube amps, but not really in the main stream any longer.
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redman
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The best recording studio I've ever recorded in was about 15 or so years ago the srudio was Echo Mountain they have 2 studios the main studio is in an old church in downtown Asheville we recorded in the church the staff was very professional and extremely knowledgeable. First thing I noticed they had tube amps galore they also had lots of digital gear and I believe they use a mix of analog and digital.
I remember talking to the engineer about digital vs tubed when I saw how many tube amps they had, he told me that in his opinion you just couldn't get the same sound out of digital he said tube amps had a warmth and presence that he had never been able to reproduce with digital gear. Of course that was just his opinion and a long time ago for digital devices as they are constantly improving with new gear being released seemingly every week however he was a pro recording engineer with tons of experience. For players I trully believe it comes down to to personal preference if you like it regardless of which side of tubed vs digilal amp dispute you are on if someone don't like what you are using just tell them to place their li\ps and make a smacking sound where the sun never shines after all you are the preforming musician and the person
THIS IS US IN ECHO MOUNTAIN I'M LAST ON LEFT (PROOF I WASN'T ALWAYS IN A WHEELCHAIR)
A LINK TO THEIR WEBSITE
https://www.echomountain.net/
WE RECORDED THIS AT ECHO MOUNTAIN
I remember talking to the engineer about digital vs tubed when I saw how many tube amps they had, he told me that in his opinion you just couldn't get the same sound out of digital he said tube amps had a warmth and presence that he had never been able to reproduce with digital gear. Of course that was just his opinion and a long time ago for digital devices as they are constantly improving with new gear being released seemingly every week however he was a pro recording engineer with tons of experience. For players I trully believe it comes down to to personal preference if you like it regardless of which side of tubed vs digilal amp dispute you are on if someone don't like what you are using just tell them to place their li\ps and make a smacking sound where the sun never shines after all you are the preforming musician and the person
THIS IS US IN ECHO MOUNTAIN I'M LAST ON LEFT (PROOF I WASN'T ALWAYS IN A WHEELCHAIR)
A LINK TO THEIR WEBSITE
https://www.echomountain.net/
WE RECORDED THIS AT ECHO MOUNTAIN
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BatUtilityBelt
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RockYoWorld
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I recently traded my Axe FX II XL+ for a Mesa Dual Rectifier Roadster amp. I hadn't been using my Axe FX II since I have an Axe FX III and have been trying to sell it to get the money for an FM9 when I get my chance on the waitlist. When I got a trade offer for the Roadster amp, my first response was "no" because I don't have a use for a tube amp. In the end, I agreed on the trade, realizing I could probably sell the amp for more than I could get for the Axe FX II.
I thought I would have fun playing the real amp at home, but meh. I have a 2x12 which isn't the best in the world, so that may be having an effect, but overall, the amp is so loud and I have much more complete tones dialed into my Axe FX III. The experience just has me sold on modelers.
I think a lot of people don't like modelers because they're looking for a raw, boomy amp in a room sound. I'm the opposite: I'm going for a polished sound that is easy to mix in live and sounds great at any volume from gig to gig.
I thought I would have fun playing the real amp at home, but meh. I have a 2x12 which isn't the best in the world, so that may be having an effect, but overall, the amp is so loud and I have much more complete tones dialed into my Axe FX III. The experience just has me sold on modelers.
I think a lot of people don't like modelers because they're looking for a raw, boomy amp in a room sound. I'm the opposite: I'm going for a polished sound that is easy to mix in live and sounds great at any volume from gig to gig.
If I had something witty to say, I'd put it here.
Yeah, I would more than happily get the new fm9 and probably get better tones for practical use...but I like that you have to really work and tweak the sound with a real amp and it becomes very unique that way.
When the other guitarist got his AxeFX his initial sounds were great but very modern and familiar sounding. Kinda like most metal recordings sound like today, impressive, polished.
Now he's been tweaking it closer and closer to my sound, which is very bare-bones Marshall oldskool sound, and it's been very interesting. By now the sounds are very different and work very well together. My sound is almost clean listened to solo, but in context sounds quite rocking. His has more drive, but constantly less and less.
Can't wait for us to get into recording also his guitars for the new album.
Sent from my SM-A125F using Tapatalk
When the other guitarist got his AxeFX his initial sounds were great but very modern and familiar sounding. Kinda like most metal recordings sound like today, impressive, polished.
Now he's been tweaking it closer and closer to my sound, which is very bare-bones Marshall oldskool sound, and it's been very interesting. By now the sounds are very different and work very well together. My sound is almost clean listened to solo, but in context sounds quite rocking. His has more drive, but constantly less and less.
Can't wait for us to get into recording also his guitars for the new album.
Sent from my SM-A125F using Tapatalk
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Grunge lives!
Real name: Antti Heikkinen Location: Finland
Web presences:
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http://www.mosfite.com (redirects to Google site)
Grunge lives!
Real name: Antti Heikkinen Location: Finland
Web presences:
https://www.facebook.com/mosfite/
https://www.youtube.com/@Mosfite
http://www.mosfite.com (redirects to Google site)
Can I ask what kind of gigs you're playing? What do you do for power amplification/speakers?RockYoWorld wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 5:21 pm I think a lot of people don't like modelers because they're looking for a raw, boomy amp in a room sound. I'm the opposite: I'm going for a polished sound that is easy to mix in live and sounds great at any volume from gig to gig.
I like to use the modeler as a practice tool, but also a simple all-in-one unit for playing/rehearsing in a room.
For example, I'm going to jam with some guys this weekend. None of us know each other at all. I'm going to bring my Yorkville NX55P powered PA speaker, with a mic, and my HeadRush modeler plugged into it.
The HeadRush will allow me to switch instantly to cover any ground we get into super quickly. I have basic patches set up for Clean, Crunch and Hi-Gain. Each of those have "scenes" saved for rhythm, heavy rhythm, and lead, plus I'll usually add one "scene" that is quirky - with some kind of modulation for fun. These "scenes" can be activated with a single click, eliminating in-song tap dancing, etc.
If things slow down in the jam considerably, I can dial up some crazy, effect-laden patch and see if that gets us inspired too.
I think tube amps will become very nearly extinct (there will always be nostalgic collectors). Current players are becoming accustomed to hearing the polished, finished, studio sound of modelers now, rather than the amp-in-a-room sound all of us older dinosaurs are used to, and I think that's the biggest hurdle for players trying to make the jump.
For example, I'm going to jam with some guys this weekend. None of us know each other at all. I'm going to bring my Yorkville NX55P powered PA speaker, with a mic, and my HeadRush modeler plugged into it.
The HeadRush will allow me to switch instantly to cover any ground we get into super quickly. I have basic patches set up for Clean, Crunch and Hi-Gain. Each of those have "scenes" saved for rhythm, heavy rhythm, and lead, plus I'll usually add one "scene" that is quirky - with some kind of modulation for fun. These "scenes" can be activated with a single click, eliminating in-song tap dancing, etc.
If things slow down in the jam considerably, I can dial up some crazy, effect-laden patch and see if that gets us inspired too.
I think tube amps will become very nearly extinct (there will always be nostalgic collectors). Current players are becoming accustomed to hearing the polished, finished, studio sound of modelers now, rather than the amp-in-a-room sound all of us older dinosaurs are used to, and I think that's the biggest hurdle for players trying to make the jump.
"Everything works if you let it." - Travis W. Redfish
Joined AGF April 10, 2013
Joined AGF April 10, 2013
The only issue we have with the lead guitarist using an axe FX - it sounds great- is that he's constantly wanting to turn it up. He has a 400W frfr cab with 102dB sensitivity while I have a 100w amp with 97dB sensitivity cab, and he feels he can't get the impact and kick I get. And I have to use an attenuator heavily or I'm drowning the whole band.
He's cosnidering to get a tube power amp now so as to get that dynamic feel to it.
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He's cosnidering to get a tube power amp now so as to get that dynamic feel to it.
Sent from my SM-A125F using Tapatalk
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Grunge lives!
Real name: Antti Heikkinen Location: Finland
Web presences:
https://www.facebook.com/mosfite/
https://www.youtube.com/@Mosfite
http://www.mosfite.com (redirects to Google site)
Grunge lives!
Real name: Antti Heikkinen Location: Finland
Web presences:
https://www.facebook.com/mosfite/
https://www.youtube.com/@Mosfite
http://www.mosfite.com (redirects to Google site)
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RockYoWorld
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Can I ask what kind of gigs you're playing? What do you do for power amplification/speakers?
[/quote]
We either play venues with good FOH or we have a production company provide sound/lights. We don't play too many bar show anymore, just enough to keep us from being too rusty. Mainly, we play local festivals, private parties/weddings. The production companies we work with have rigs that vary slightly, but the general setup is a big sub and main speaker on each side of the stage. For small bars, it can be a bit overkill, but a lot of people that hire us for festivals and private events see us at bar shows, so we want to give our best product every night, even if it means our take-home pay is lower.
I totally get if you have crappy FOH or if you don't have an IEM rig that you want stage volume. I also get the argument that guitars sound better with some feedback (not the squealy kind) going into it. I'm at the point that if I need that, I'd use an FRFR cab with a high end modeler, but I've been spoiled. My tone through my Axe FX is vey close to the ideal tone in my head and I have way more control over it than an amp.
If I had something witty to say, I'd put it here.
I was a the band room last night, and even shot a short cell phone video playing my Marshall.
I don't believe any modeler ever will quite give me the same feel and response.
I mean, with modelers you play the SOUND only...it reacts to your playing but very differently.
When you play a real tube amp, it's all about interaction. You play the AMP just as much as the guitar.
My friend played my rig for a while and he complained it's incredibly hard to play for him. It's unforgiving, you play a note ever so slightly less powerfully and it's just blaah. Play too gently and it feels semi clean and clunky. You really have to WORK to coax the sound out. When he played my amp it was either clunky clean or feedbacking and making godawful noises all the time. He's only played modern modelers for years, and he just didn't know how to play a classic real amp at all.
Or alternatively, when properly cranked, you have to work to control the beast. Let the strings open for a split second and it feedbacks and wails like a beast. Slip the pick a little and it punishes you with a really loud extra noise.
When you play it, it responds and you can literally _feel_ the notes reverberating in the guitar, pickups picking up not just the strings but also amp feedback, and even without distortion, the sound just wells and soars building harmonic amplification over the notes endlessly.
It's kinda like the felt difference, that feels like the difference when you listen to old Van Halen for instance and that ratty barely controlled, screaming and wild sound in comparison with a generic house-trained and super tidy, scooped metal distorted sound that all sounds and feels the same.
You just don't get that with any modeler. You can get the sound on record pretty much, and it's not something you'd notice in a mix, but...playing a real tube amp is like playing with a tiger as opposed to a domestic cat - it just is a beast and a joy to enjoy in a very different way from a modeler.
https://youtube.com/shorts/zybKSEjm64Y?feature=share
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I don't believe any modeler ever will quite give me the same feel and response.
I mean, with modelers you play the SOUND only...it reacts to your playing but very differently.
When you play a real tube amp, it's all about interaction. You play the AMP just as much as the guitar.
My friend played my rig for a while and he complained it's incredibly hard to play for him. It's unforgiving, you play a note ever so slightly less powerfully and it's just blaah. Play too gently and it feels semi clean and clunky. You really have to WORK to coax the sound out. When he played my amp it was either clunky clean or feedbacking and making godawful noises all the time. He's only played modern modelers for years, and he just didn't know how to play a classic real amp at all.
Or alternatively, when properly cranked, you have to work to control the beast. Let the strings open for a split second and it feedbacks and wails like a beast. Slip the pick a little and it punishes you with a really loud extra noise.
When you play it, it responds and you can literally _feel_ the notes reverberating in the guitar, pickups picking up not just the strings but also amp feedback, and even without distortion, the sound just wells and soars building harmonic amplification over the notes endlessly.
It's kinda like the felt difference, that feels like the difference when you listen to old Van Halen for instance and that ratty barely controlled, screaming and wild sound in comparison with a generic house-trained and super tidy, scooped metal distorted sound that all sounds and feels the same.
You just don't get that with any modeler. You can get the sound on record pretty much, and it's not something you'd notice in a mix, but...playing a real tube amp is like playing with a tiger as opposed to a domestic cat - it just is a beast and a joy to enjoy in a very different way from a modeler.
https://youtube.com/shorts/zybKSEjm64Y?feature=share
Sent from my SM-A125F using Tapatalk
--
Grunge lives!
Real name: Antti Heikkinen Location: Finland
Web presences:
https://www.facebook.com/mosfite/
https://www.youtube.com/@Mosfite
http://www.mosfite.com (redirects to Google site)
Grunge lives!
Real name: Antti Heikkinen Location: Finland
Web presences:
https://www.facebook.com/mosfite/
https://www.youtube.com/@Mosfite
http://www.mosfite.com (redirects to Google site)
Thinking about this topic, can we really call it "the death of the amp"? I mean, what is a modeler but a kind of amp? The underlying technologies are somewhat different, as are the capabilities, but then, there's been a constant trend of amplifier technologies and capabilities, from single-channel to multi-channel, tube to solid state, no effects to reverb to digital effects, etc. At the end of the day, are they not all just different kinds of a box that you tote around which makes your electric guitar sound like something people actually want to hear?
Yes, also a modeler amp is usually used like an amp indeed.
Besides, amps aren't going anywhere. The demand for big tube heads may get a little lower, but for instance smaller tube amps sell more than the local shop can keep in stock, and classic amps fetch insane prices often. An especially well liked Marshall head like an original Jubilee can fetch two grand. I just saw a 2204 combo on sale for close to three grand. But you can still find a JCM for under a grand used.
Much like vinyls, there will always be loads of players who want them. I would definitely get a new Fractal or Neural setup if I could afford it and play that on gigs etc but I'd still keep my Marshall for recording.
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Besides, amps aren't going anywhere. The demand for big tube heads may get a little lower, but for instance smaller tube amps sell more than the local shop can keep in stock, and classic amps fetch insane prices often. An especially well liked Marshall head like an original Jubilee can fetch two grand. I just saw a 2204 combo on sale for close to three grand. But you can still find a JCM for under a grand used.
Much like vinyls, there will always be loads of players who want them. I would definitely get a new Fractal or Neural setup if I could afford it and play that on gigs etc but I'd still keep my Marshall for recording.
Sent from my SM-A125F using Tapatalk
--
Grunge lives!
Real name: Antti Heikkinen Location: Finland
Web presences:
https://www.facebook.com/mosfite/
https://www.youtube.com/@Mosfite
http://www.mosfite.com (redirects to Google site)
Grunge lives!
Real name: Antti Heikkinen Location: Finland
Web presences:
https://www.facebook.com/mosfite/
https://www.youtube.com/@Mosfite
http://www.mosfite.com (redirects to Google site)
Fender, Marshall, Vox and Mesa sold more tube amps last year than Line 6, Fractal, and Kemper sold modelers. Even if you include Fender Tonemasters and the QC with the modelers, tube amps from the big players are still out selling modelers from the big players. That does not include all of the smaller builders, most of which have been swamped with orders.
Digital is taking over from analog solid state on the low end for sure, but when looking at the higher price points, say $600 and up, tubes are still doing very well.
Digital is taking over from analog solid state on the low end for sure, but when looking at the higher price points, say $600 and up, tubes are still doing very well.